AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain

[Jayop]

Score 2 of them and you'd have been a point up. It's much too simplistic to say that would have won the game (I know that's not exactly what you said). Tyrone could just have easily have reacted and pushed on and scored more. And likewise Tyrone missed some other simple chances, if we had have scored them we'd have won by a mile.

[lenny]

Score 2 of them and you'd have been a point up. It's much too simplistic to say that would have won the game (I know that's not exactly what you said). Tyrone could just have easily have reacted and pushed on and scored more. And likewise Tyrone missed some other simple chances, if we had have scored them we'd have won by a mile.

Totally agree. My point was really that Mayo aren't scoring enough in finals to win them. Missing clear cut goal chances saps the confidence of the whole team. 0.15 won't win too many finals but 2.15 would be hard to beat most times. Mckenna showed a level of composure that IMO was beyond any of the Mayo forwards.

[Dubhaltach]

I don't think Mayo need to go full blanket or anything but all the top teams have at least one extra man back covering space. I thought Frank Burns did a great job like this for Tyrone in the final. The amount of space in front of the Mayo full back line had to be seen to be believed. When I saw the McCurry goal chance in the first half, I'd a feeling we'd see Tyrone goals in the 2nd half.

I agree about the lack of ability in some of our forwards, it's just that even if we scored one of those goal chances, I wouldn't have been confident about closing the game out and not conceding goals at the other end.

[Jayop]

Score 2 of them and you'd have been a point up. It's much too simplistic to say that would have won the game (I know that's not exactly what you said). Tyrone could just have easily have reacted and pushed on and scored more. And likewise Tyrone missed some other simple chances, if we had have scored them we'd have won by a mile.

Totally agree. My point was really that Mayo aren't scoring enough in finals to win them. Missing clear cut goal chances saps the confidence of the whole team. 0.15 won't win too many finals but 2.15 would be hard to beat most times. Mckenna showed a level of composure that IMO was beyond any of the Mayo forwards.

Ahh got ya, yeah that's a totally fair shout.

[ONeill]

There seems to be a vibe from the Tyrone players about feeling a lot freer this year. They're careful not to slight Mickey but it's fairly obvious this year's management decision was spot on by Tyrone. Mickey did 90% of the spadework though. It was good to see that he was in Armagh on Sat night.

[StPatsAbu]

There seems to be a vibe from the Tyrone players about feeling a lot freer this year. They're careful not to slight Mickey but it's fairly obvious this year's management decision was spot on by Tyrone. Mickey did 90% of the spadework though. It was good to see that he was in Armagh on Sat night.

For sure

[From the Bunker]

There seems to be a vibe from the Tyrone players about feeling a lot freer this year. They're careful not to slight Mickey but it's fairly obvious this year's management decision was spot on by Tyrone. Mickey did 90% of the spadework though. It was good to see that he was in Armagh on Sat night.

Which all seems to point to the conclusion that while he was bringing them forward he was also holding them back. And you'd have to wonder how long he was holding them back.

[clarshack]

There seems to be a vibe from the Tyrone players about feeling a lot freer this year. They're careful not to slight Mickey but it's fairly obvious this year's management decision was spot on by Tyrone. Mickey did 90% of the spadework though. It was good to see that he was in Armagh on Sat night.

Could you argue that Art and Eugene did 90% of the spadework pre-2003?

[imtommygunn]

They play differently but Mcgeary and Harte to defense are a big change. Canavan a year older, McKenna a bit better, Mc curry playing more.

Tbh I agree on 2018. Maybe they would have done a bit better but Dublin still the best team for years.

[tyrone08]

They play differently but Mcgeary and Harte to defense are a big change. Canavan a year older, McKenna a bit better, Mc curry playing more.

Tbh I agree on 2018. Maybe they would have done a bit better but Dublin still the best team for years.

Wouldn't be so sure. While they may not have won they would give it a good rattle if dooher and Co were the managers. Colm cavanagh even said himself once tyrone went 5-1 up within the first 15 mins they didn't know what to do as they hadn't planned to be leading.

What kind of managment is that when a team doesn't expect to be leading? Think harte came at that game with a negative mindset which fed into the players. Now the players are far more confident and have belief in their ability.

[imtommygunn]

About that time though O'Sullivan came off and it just became a different game.

[Keyser soze]

If Dooher and Logan had been managing during the years of Dublin's dominance they would have won nothing either. Tyrone have not improved any from what I can see, the quality from the other teams ie Dublin and Mayo just isn't there to the same level as previous years, all Tyrone had to do was stay at their previous level to be the best.

[nrico2006]

There seems to be a vibe from the Tyrone players about feeling a lot freer this year. They're careful not to slight Mickey but it's fairly obvious this year's management decision was spot on by Tyrone. Mickey did 90% of the spadework though. It was good to see that he was in Armagh on Sat night.

Could you argue that Art and Eugene did 90% of the spadework pre-2003?

I dunno, the main reason Tyrone did well from 2003 on was due to that core group of players that were essentially developed by Harte from 97 onwards in the various underage teams.

As for holding Tyrone back, for most of the noughties Tyrone played the same way all the time.  There was no potency in attack and which resulted in very few goals scored.  Rarely did you see a Tyrone corner forward come onto the ball and spin his man, put the head down and go direct to goal.  It was all about playing the percentages, where the corner forward came rushing toward the ball and instead of following their instinct, they continued their run out and off loaded it to a player coming in who would go for the point.  I think a few players have also alluded to the fact that they are now encourage to take risks, whereas under Harte if they did that they knew the curly finger was coming out.  I don't think its a coincidence that the talisman from each of the 2004, 2008 and 2010 All Ireland winning minor teams never thrived at senior level.  These players took the risks at underage level, played on instinct and ultimately thrived because of this.  However, come senior level this approach was not promoted and this curtailed their effectiveness, in my opinion.

[lenny]

They play differently but Mcgeary and Harte to defense are a big change. Canavan a year older, McKenna a bit better, Mc curry playing more.

Tbh I agree on 2018. Maybe they would have done a bit better but Dublin still the best team for years.

Would a massive change not be the faith put in 2 natural midfielders. Harte never trusted or stuck with midfielders. Logan has stuck with the 2 men this year even when they weren't playing that well and it paid off when they played really well in the final. Those 2 gave Tyrone the option to go really long with kickouts instead of the constant shorts under Harte.

[trueblue1234]

If Dooher and Logan had been managing during the years of Dublin's dominance they would have won nothing either. Tyrone have not improved any from what I can see, the quality from the other teams ie Dublin and Mayo just isn't there to the same level as previous years, all Tyrone had to do was stay at their previous level to be the best.

Unfortunately I think this also, and it's no slight on Dooher or Logan. Timing can make or break managers. I think most teams would have struggled against that Dublin team. They were the most complete team I can remember. But sometimes getting that break, starting off against a Dub team in decline can help start something big as well. They won't go into a game against the Dubs scared anymore. This year should have helped some of the mental scars to heal. Whether that is enough if Dublin get their act together again (Which they will), I don't know.
I would be much more weary of the Dubs than that Kerry team.