Author Topic: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain  (Read 40892 times)

yellowcard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4109
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1170 on: September 14, 2021, 04:43:04 PM »
That's a very honest article by McStay, have always thought he was one of the better pundits working in the media and he has walked the line so has seen the GAA from every side.

He makes particularly good points about how Mayo seem to produce an abundance of athletic running type footballers but very few final third finishers. Also raised an interesting statistic about how Mayo had 8 wides, a missed penalty and 2 balls dropped short in the final third of the match. That is a meltdown of bad decision making by anybodys standards.

I'm also glad that somebody from within Mayo football has finally had a go back at Brolly after he stuck the boot in again the morning after an AI final defeat. He needs to be challenged on those personal attacks but a lot are afraid to get drawn in and speak out about it.

Where was McStay's statement on the personal abuse brolly doled out to Cavanagh a few years ago? Not much use calling out that type of personal attack only when it hits close to home. He has had amble opportunities and a TV platform to call Brolly out previously but failed to do so.

Ah now ! A lot of people in fairness called out Brolly for his attack on Cavanagh, I think that was the start of his downfall in RTÉ .

Fact is, he has become a lot more insidious and nasty in relation to Mayo footballers in the recent past.
These are young men who are amateurs , not Premiership footballers where they have a fat salary to go with the abuse.

They are the easy target for losing a number of finals. Narcissists do that, pick on easy prey. You have to wonder if Brollys personal insults/attacks is to disguise the lack of success in his own career as a county footballer. His record doesn’t stand up to other pundits like Spillane, O’Rourke, Tomas O’Se, Cooper.

Whatever about Mayo’s failures to get over the line, they have come back year after year, regularly competing for AI’s. They are amateurs, giving their time and effort, and have given their supporters some great days. Some heartbreaking ones too. But I’d love for us to be competing annually in the latter stages like Mayo.

I think he knows that they are just easy prey and won't hit back, its the classic action of a bully with a pen. Neither Dooher, Logan, McGeeney or any of them managers from his own era and closer to home would tolerate that bullshit and he knows that they would rightly call him out were he ever to have a go at them. That is why I am glad that at least McStay had the balls to call him out over it but I know that many others won't and will just shrug it off by saying 'ah thats just Joe' or by trying to brush it off by saying that he is best ignored. When really they are just afraid to call it out for what it is. 

From the Bunker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10078
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1171 on: September 14, 2021, 09:08:43 PM »
Ah McStay, He's no fool. Always pragmatic when Mayo loses another All Ireland. He knows how to plámás the situation. He's a long time on the Sunday Game, gets a lot of the co-commentary gigs. Like most RTE co-commentators he won't rock the boat. He's a safe bet! You have a employee who rolls along, uses the modern jargon like offensive play, high push, percentage score, etc. You know, I almost feel McStay introduced most of this new lingo to the game. Unlike Spillane and O'Rourke he looks further than soundbites and irrelevant stats. But they will always get the limelight because they criticise and belittle. And we as a nation sort of like that. We like to see a dog kicked when they are down especially a rival dog or a dog who got a bit full of himself.

I used to read McStay when he wrote in the local Newspaper 'The Mayo News'. His articles on reflection seem the same as now, I bet one could cut and paste one of those from 10-15 years ago and no-one would notice the difference. The only difference is he has grown indifferent to Mayo football since 2014. It can be noticed in what he does not say more so in what he says. And maybe who can blame him?

Sportacus

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1172 on: September 14, 2021, 10:14:40 PM »
Jonny Doyle is a fella I like listening to on the podcasts. A fine player, plenty of insight and just a good feel for the game and the players.  It would be great to see some new faces.  It’s tiresome watching Spillane and Kavanagh interrupt each other. O’Rourke, McStay and Whelan couldn’t complain if fresh faces came in.

whitey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4087
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1173 on: September 15, 2021, 12:07:27 AM »
I like the time the brothers of a well known Mayo player back in the 90s were going to batter Spillane up in Croke Park, and Martin Carney had to smuggle him out of the stadium in the boot of his car

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26163
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1174 on: September 15, 2021, 04:25:35 AM »
Jonny Doyle is a fella I like listening to on the podcasts. A fine player, plenty of insight and just a good feel for the game and the players.  It would be great to see some new faces.  It’s tiresome watching Spillane and Kavanagh interrupt each other. O’Rourke, McStay and Whelan couldn’t complain if fresh faces came in.
Johnny Doyle is excelleny but he may be needed in the Kildarw management team
Lookit

tbrick18

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2154
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1175 on: September 15, 2021, 10:41:25 AM »
RTE need to do a complete clear out of their commentary teams and pundits, including Cantwell.
Of the current panel, the only ones I would keep are O'Se and Cooper (even though both are Kerry).
Everyone else is dire.

The format needs refreshed imo as it's just tired.

Spillane, McStay, Cavanagh, Whelan....all tripe and soundbites. I don't mind O'Rourke so much but he's rarely on these days).

I've no idea what the Sky coverage is like as I don't have sky and don't agree with a paid for service like that, but it couldn't be any worse than RTE.

I'd love to see the likes of Marty Clarke on RTE. Johnny Doyle could be a good shout. Dessie Dolan seemed to be there for a while and wasn't the worst.
It would be better I think if they had recently retired players only and change it up every year or two. Would keep it fresh. I know you could say Cavanagh fits that profile, but I think he's rubbish and never has anything insightful to say and stutters too much. My opinion only.

As for Joanne cantwell....there has to be a more natural presenter than her. Everything is so scripted with her and it just feels contrived and boring.

As for Mayo - I kind of agree that they were only allowed to play the game on Tyrone terms, but I also believe that they are hamstrung by the fear of losing now given what has happened. Easier to say than do, but they need to play with the confidence of winners and they don't have that confidence as a team or management. Tyrone on the other hand, always play with a swagger where they believe they can win even if they have no right to (not a criticism). It's why they keep surprising people. Their own self belief  or arrogance has driven them on many times now....perhaps that's part of why 31 other counties love to see them beat  ;D

blewuporstuffed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4443
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1176 on: September 15, 2021, 11:59:14 AM »
RTE need to do a complete clear out of their commentary teams and pundits, including Cantwell.
Of the current panel, the only ones I would keep are O'Se and Cooper (even though both are Kerry).
Everyone else is dire.

The format needs refreshed imo as it's just tired.

Spillane, McStay, Cavanagh, Whelan....all tripe and soundbites. I don't mind O'Rourke so much but he's rarely on these days).

I've no idea what the Sky coverage is like as I don't have sky and don't agree with a paid for service like that, but it couldn't be any worse than RTE.

I'd love to see the likes of Marty Clarke on RTE. Johnny Doyle could be a good shout. Dessie Dolan seemed to be there for a while and wasn't the worst.
It would be better I think if they had recently retired players only and change it up every year or two. Would keep it fresh. I know you could say Cavanagh fits that profile, but I think he's rubbish and never has anything insightful to say and stutters too much. My opinion only.

As for Joanne cantwell....there has to be a more natural presenter than her. Everything is so scripted with her and it just feels contrived and boring.

As for Mayo - I kind of agree that they were only allowed to play the game on Tyrone terms, but I also believe that they are hamstrung by the fear of losing now given what has happened. Easier to say than do, but they need to play with the confidence of winners and they don't have that confidence as a team or management. Tyrone on the other hand, always play with a swagger where they believe they can win even if they have no right to (not a criticism). It's why they keep surprising people. Their own self belief  or arrogance has driven them on many times now....perhaps that's part of why 31 other counties love to see them beat  ;D
Sky coverage is well ahead of RTE, they do have better analysis, but in general there is just a different tone to it. RTE seem to want to cater to the casual fan who just tunes in to hear a few sound bites and controversial comments. I feel sky try and go into a bit more depth than that looking at tactics etc. Canavan, McGuiness and Donaghy are all well ahead of anyone on RTE.

Enda McGinley is generally excellent on any of the podcasts he has been on lately, but then a podcast is a very different format to live on national TV.
McConville is generally good, except when tryone are playing as he just cant hide his dislike for them no matter how hard he tries!
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

tiempo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1177 on: September 15, 2021, 12:07:26 PM »
RTE need to do a complete clear out of their commentary teams and pundits, including Cantwell.
Of the current panel, the only ones I would keep are O'Se and Cooper (even though both are Kerry).
Everyone else is dire.

The format needs refreshed imo as it's just tired.

Spillane, McStay, Cavanagh, Whelan....all tripe and soundbites. I don't mind O'Rourke so much but he's rarely on these days).

I've no idea what the Sky coverage is like as I don't have sky and don't agree with a paid for service like that, but it couldn't be any worse than RTE.

I'd love to see the likes of Marty Clarke on RTE. Johnny Doyle could be a good shout. Dessie Dolan seemed to be there for a while and wasn't the worst.
It would be better I think if they had recently retired players only and change it up every year or two. Would keep it fresh. I know you could say Cavanagh fits that profile, but I think he's rubbish and never has anything insightful to say and stutters too much. My opinion only.

As for Joanne cantwell....there has to be a more natural presenter than her. Everything is so scripted with her and it just feels contrived and boring.

As for Mayo - I kind of agree that they were only allowed to play the game on Tyrone terms, but I also believe that they are hamstrung by the fear of losing now given what has happened. Easier to say than do, but they need to play with the confidence of winners and they don't have that confidence as a team or management. Tyrone on the other hand, always play with a swagger where they believe they can win even if they have no right to (not a criticism). It's why they keep surprising people. Their own self belief  or arrogance has driven them on many times now....perhaps that's part of why 31 other counties love to see them beat  ;D
Sky coverage is well ahead of RTE, they do have better analysis, but in general there is just a different tone to it. RTE seem to want to cater to the casual fan who just tunes in to hear a few sound bites and controversial comments. I feel sky try and go into a bit more depth than that looking at tactics etc. Canavan, McGuiness and Donaghy are all well ahead of anyone on RTE.

Enda McGinley is generally excellent on any of the podcasts he has been on lately, but then a podcast is a very different format to live on national TV.
McConville is generally good, except when tryone are playing as he just cant hide his dislike for them no matter how hard he tries!

There was a time I would fully swerve the pre-match shite talk and mute during half time, but of late have picked up some of the Sky coverage and I have to admit its very good, and when compared to what RTE seem to be doing they are light years ahead of those Neanderthals.

Itchy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5785
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1178 on: September 15, 2021, 01:09:17 PM »
I personally cannot stand McStay. He is another lazy commentator that only knows a bit about the bigger teams and is quite condescending towards everyone else. Dessie Dolan is dire. Tomas O Shea knows the game but is also lazy and knows his two players from each team in the country and that is it. SKY are miles ahead of RTE in every facet. The only one on RTE who has a clue is Oisin McConville. I though the BBC coverage was also very good, having Harte and McConville was great.

tiempo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 925
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1179 on: September 15, 2021, 01:21:58 PM »
McStay ripped into Tyrone for cynical tactics and gamesmanship a few short months before taking that exact approach as manager of St Brigids in their win over Crossmaglen. Standard antics. His article this week on the final was very good though.

BennyCake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9529
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1180 on: September 15, 2021, 01:43:48 PM »
RTE need to do a complete clear out of their commentary teams and pundits, including Cantwell.
Of the current panel, the only ones I would keep are O'Se and Cooper (even though both are Kerry).
Everyone else is dire.

The format needs refreshed imo as it's just tired.

Spillane, McStay, Cavanagh, Whelan....all tripe and soundbites. I don't mind O'Rourke so much but he's rarely on these days).

I've no idea what the Sky coverage is like as I don't have sky and don't agree with a paid for service like that, but it couldn't be any worse than RTE.

I'd love to see the likes of Marty Clarke on RTE. Johnny Doyle could be a good shout. Dessie Dolan seemed to be there for a while and wasn't the worst.
It would be better I think if they had recently retired players only and change it up every year or two. Would keep it fresh. I know you could say Cavanagh fits that profile, but I think he's rubbish and never has anything insightful to say and stutters too much. My opinion only.

As for Joanne cantwell....there has to be a more natural presenter than her. Everything is so scripted with her and it just feels contrived and boring.

As for Mayo - I kind of agree that they were only allowed to play the game on Tyrone terms, but I also believe that they are hamstrung by the fear of losing now given what has happened. Easier to say than do, but they need to play with the confidence of winners and they don't have that confidence as a team or management. Tyrone on the other hand, always play with a swagger where they believe they can win even if they have no right to (not a criticism). It's why they keep surprising people. Their own self belief  or arrogance has driven them on many times now....perhaps that's part of why 31 other counties love to see them beat  ;D
Sky coverage is well ahead of RTE, they do have better analysis, but in general there is just a different tone to it. RTE seem to want to cater to the casual fan who just tunes in to hear a few sound bites and controversial comments. I feel sky try and go into a bit more depth than that looking at tactics etc. Canavan, McGuiness and Donaghy are all well ahead of anyone on RTE.

Enda McGinley is generally excellent on any of the podcasts he has been on lately, but then a podcast is a very different format to live on national TV.
McConville is generally good, except when tryone are playing as he just cant hide his dislike for them no matter how hard he tries!

Can’t say I ever sensed that from Oisin.

Mickey Harte is good enough but he tends to get very defensive and a bit hysterical about Tyrone, like Cavanagh does on RTE. That cat fighting between Cavanagh and Spillane during the semi final was brutal viewing. Like two children high on sweets at a birthday party.

seafoid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26163
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1181 on: September 15, 2021, 01:51:18 PM »
That's a very honest article by McStay, have always thought he was one of the better pundits working in the media and he has walked the line so has seen the GAA from every side.

He makes particularly good points about how Mayo seem to produce an abundance of athletic running type footballers but very few final third finishers. Also raised an interesting statistic about how Mayo had 8 wides, a missed penalty and 2 balls dropped short in the final third of the match. That is a meltdown of bad decision making by anybodys standards.

I'm also glad that somebody from within Mayo football has finally had a go back at Brolly after he stuck the boot in again the morning after an AI final defeat. He needs to be challenged on those personal attacks but a lot are afraid to get drawn in and speak out about it.

Where was McStay's statement on the personal abuse brolly doled out to Cavanagh a few years ago? Not much use calling out that type of personal attack only when it hits close to home. He has had amble opportunities and a TV platform to call Brolly out previously but failed to do so.

Ah now ! A lot of people in fairness called out Brolly for his attack on Cavanagh, I think that was the start of his downfall in RTÉ .

Fact is, he has become a lot more insidious and nasty in relation to Mayo footballers in the recent past.
These are young men who are amateurs , not Premiership footballers where they have a fat salary to go with the abuse.

They are the easy target for losing a number of finals. Narcissists do that, pick on easy prey. You have to wonder if Brollys personal insults/attacks is to disguise the lack of success in his own career as a county footballer. His record doesn’t stand up to other pundits like Spillane, O’Rourke, Tomas O’Se, Cooper.

Whatever about Mayo’s failures to get over the line, they have come back year after year, regularly competing for AI’s. They are amateurs, giving their time and effort, and have given their supporters some great days. Some heartbreaking ones too. But I’d love for us to be competing annually in the latter stages like Mayo.
Getting to finals is great but losing them repeatedly is not


Mullane

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1198446/

I find it's very difficult, even doing the
radio, in around the All-Ireland finals," the De La Salle man said.

"You do be saying, 'Jesus I would have loved to have gotten over the line just once'.

"It's a nice second or a nice third after winning a Munster Championship, but I would give up all five of them for one All-Ireland medal. It's the ultimate prize at the end of the day.


Lookit

blanketattack

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1182
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1182 on: September 15, 2021, 03:57:34 PM »
It'll be interesting to see next year can Tyrone finally do 2 years back-to-back. Even getting to the final in consecutive years would be a new horizon for them. Cavan and Down are the only 2 Ulster counties who've managed to retain Sam Maguire so it's now 60 years since an Ulster county has done so.

Good teams win Sam Maguire. Great teams retain Sam Maguire.

yellowcard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4109
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1183 on: September 15, 2021, 04:38:42 PM »
It'll be interesting to see next year can Tyrone finally do 2 years back-to-back. Even getting to the final in consecutive years would be a new horizon for them. Cavan and Down are the only 2 Ulster counties who've managed to retain Sam Maguire so it's now 60 years since an Ulster county has done so.

Good teams win Sam Maguire. Great teams retain Sam Maguire.

They are certainly not favourites but all things being equal they have probably now been elevated to being the third best team in Ireland on the back of what they have achieved this season. That will be dependent on the structure that the championship takes though. If it moves away from the provincial structure then that will benefit Tyrone and the other Ulster counties. 

I think they could easily improve next season (and I think they will) but yet that might not be enough. They will carry the extra confidence from being champions and players like McShane, Canavan and McKenna have plenty of scope for improvement on this years form. Also the shortened nature of the last 2 seasons should reduce any possible player burnout that might have arisen from a normal 9 month season. They will have the added motivation of trying to draw level with Down and Cavan and also retaining the title for the first time. It will help having Dooher as part of the management team since he was part of previous Tyrone teams who dipped badly the year after winning AI titles in the past. 

However opposition teams will also have them scrutinised to a greater degree even though I think they will probably evolve further themselves. That is part of what made Dublin great. The fact that opponents looked at them studiously for years yet never worked out a way to beat them tactically. Indeed that appeared to be a large part of Kerrys downfall in 2020, the fact that they almost tailored their entire gameplan trying to prepare for Dublin instead of just taking it game by game and focusing on the opposition in front of them.   

Aaron Boone

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2441
    • View Profile
Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1184 on: September 15, 2021, 04:58:31 PM »
It'll be interesting to see next year can Tyrone finally do 2 years back-to-back. Even getting to the final in consecutive years would be a new horizon for them. Cavan and Down are the only 2 Ulster counties who've managed to retain Sam Maguire so it's now 60 years since an Ulster county has done so.

Good teams win Sam Maguire. Great teams retain Sam Maguire.

Tyrone would have a long way to go to be spoken off in the echelons of Ulster aristocracy.