Author Topic: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain  (Read 43809 times)

tyrone08

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1230 on: September 17, 2021, 08:54:18 AM »
They play differently but Mcgeary and Harte to defense are a big change. Canavan a year older, McKenna a bit better, Mc curry playing more.

Tbh I agree on 2018. Maybe they would have done a bit better but Dublin still the best team for years.

Wouldn't be so sure. While they may not have won they would give it a good rattle if dooher and Co were the managers. Colm cavanagh even said himself once tyrone went 5-1 up within the first 15 mins they didn't know what to do as they hadn't planned to be leading.

What kind of managment is that when a team doesn't expect to be leading? Think harte came at that game with a negative mindset which fed into the players. Now the players are far more confident and have belief in their ability.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 09:20:19 AM by tyrone08 »

imtommygunn

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1231 on: September 17, 2021, 09:13:28 AM »
About that time though O’Sullivan came off and it just became a different game.

Keyser soze

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1232 on: September 17, 2021, 09:24:50 AM »
If Dooher and Logan had been managing during the years of Dublin's dominance they would have won nothing either. Tyrone have not improved any from what I can see, the quality from the other teams ie Dublin and Mayo just isn't there to the same level as previous years, all Tyrone had to do was stay at their previous level to be the best.

nrico2006

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1233 on: September 17, 2021, 09:26:36 AM »
There seems to be a vibe from the Tyrone players about feeling a lot freer this year. They're careful not to slight Mickey but it's fairly obvious this year's management decision was spot on by Tyrone. Mickey did 90% of the spadework though. It was good to see that he was in Armagh on Sat night.

Could you argue that Art and Eugene did 90% of the spadework pre-2003?

I dunno, the main reason Tyrone did well from 2003 on was due to that core group of players that were essentially developed by Harte from 97 onwards in the various underage teams.

As for holding Tyrone back, for most of the noughties Tyrone played the same way all the time.  There was no potency in attack and which resulted in very few goals scored.  Rarely did you see a Tyrone corner forward come onto the ball and spin his man, put the head down and go direct to goal.  It was all about playing the percentages, where the corner forward came rushing toward the ball and instead of following their instinct, they continued their run out and off loaded it to a player coming in who would go for the point.  I think a few players have also alluded to the fact that they are now encourage to take risks, whereas under Harte if they did that they knew the curly finger was coming out.  I don't think its a coincidence that the talisman from each of the 2004, 2008 and 2010 All Ireland winning minor teams never thrived at senior level.  These players took the risks at underage level, played on instinct and ultimately thrived because of this.  However, come senior level this approach was not promoted and this curtailed their effectiveness, in my opinion.
'To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.'

lenny

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1234 on: September 17, 2021, 09:39:48 AM »
They play differently but Mcgeary and Harte to defense are a big change. Canavan a year older, McKenna a bit better, Mc curry playing more.

Tbh I agree on 2018. Maybe they would have done a bit better but Dublin still the best team for years.

Would a massive change not be the faith put in 2 natural midfielders. Harte never trusted or stuck with midfielders. Logan has stuck with the 2 men this year even when they weren’t playing that well and it paid off when they played really well in the final. Those 2 gave Tyrone the option to go really long with kickouts instead of the constant shorts under Harte.

trueblue1234

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1235 on: September 17, 2021, 09:44:55 AM »
If Dooher and Logan had been managing during the years of Dublin's dominance they would have won nothing either. Tyrone have not improved any from what I can see, the quality from the other teams ie Dublin and Mayo just isn't there to the same level as previous years, all Tyrone had to do was stay at their previous level to be the best.

Unfortunately I think this also, and it’s no slight on Dooher or Logan. Timing can make or break managers. I think most teams would have struggled against that Dublin team. They were the most complete team I can remember. But sometimes getting that break, starting off against a Dub team in decline can help start something big as well. They won’t go into a game against the Dubs scared anymore. This year should have helped some of the mental scars to heal. Whether that is enough if Dublin get their act together again (Which they will), I don’t know.
I would be much more weary of the Dubs than that Kerry team.
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Lamh Dhearg Alba

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1236 on: September 17, 2021, 09:46:56 AM »
I agree with that. The last few years under Mickey the team were superbly conditioned but the style of play was micromanaged and very clearly restricted the players. How often were they scared to really commit to attack or shoot? Scared of being subbed after a mistake or immediately after a yellow. The players invariably made poor calls under pressure. The same players who showed great composure these last few weeks. All those years when we dropped an incredible number of shots short. Hardly saw that this year. There was also a recognisable and consistent spine to the team, something else we didn't have under Mickey and the players flourished with it. Look also at the extra number of bodies up the field. I was watching back and at Canavan's late goal chance there are 6 Tyrone players up in attack. The last few years we almost always tried to defend leads late on against good teams. Here we were 4 up late on in the All Ireland final and trying to score a goal. Even putting Donaghy on as a sub at that stage  ;D

Mickey is a legend but he became obsessed by defending and systems which to me meant his teams could never fulfil their potential. That was sad as it was the opposite of his great noughties team. The current lot might well not have beaten the Dubs at their best, but neither would they have been finished after losing an early goal which scuppered their rigid defensive plan. So huge credit to Mickey for his massive achievements and his work in developing many of these players, but he was there a few years too long and was latterly holding them back.

BennyCake

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1237 on: September 17, 2021, 10:13:56 AM »
I think it’s all too simplistic to say  Harte kept them on a lead, Dooher/Logan let them off it.

I know it’s all ifs and buts, but the turning point was Donegal game. Three big calls went Tyrone’s way. McGee injured (and no card for McKernan - could have been red), the penalty miss, and Murphy’s red. Yes it was deserved, but it was a split second thing. Ball fumbled, wild swing. Would Tyrone have won had 2 or 3 of those incidents turned out differently ? I’m not sure.

Then v Kerry,  they were 2 points down when McShane goaled, with a minute to go. If that deflection falls differently, Kerry clear it. That’s without including the square ball balls-up.  Thems the breaks. Harte didn’t seem to just get those breaks this  last few seasons .

clarshack

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1238 on: September 17, 2021, 10:24:52 AM »
Would it be a widely held view that the current team is a better one than the recent teams Harte had? Or would they be much of a muchness with the current lot just a tad luckier?
Personally I don’t think this team would have done any better against the Dublin team of 2018.

If this current team and management were about in 2018 the final would have been a lot tighter. For a start Meyler would not have been overturned directly leading to a Dublin goal. The likes of Hampsey, McGeary and McShane are much better players now while the Midfield has come on leaps and bounds too.

clarshack

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1239 on: September 17, 2021, 10:27:45 AM »
I think it’s all too simplistic to say  Harte kept them on a lead, Dooher/Logan let them off it.

I know it’s all ifs and buts, but the turning point was Donegal game. Three big calls went Tyrone’s way. McGee injured (and no card for McKernan - could have been red), the penalty miss, and Murphy’s red. Yes it was deserved, but it was a split second thing. Ball fumbled, wild swing. Would Tyrone have won had 2 or 3 of those incidents turned out differently ? I’m not sure.

Then v Kerry,  they were 2 points down when McShane goaled, with a minute to go. If that deflection falls differently, Kerry clear it. That’s without including the square ball balls-up.  Thems the breaks. Harte didn’t seem to just get those breaks this  last few seasons .

Fortune favours the brave

Applesisapples

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1240 on: September 17, 2021, 10:31:47 AM »
I am not up on football tactics and Strategy but to my simple mind this year football seemed more open and exciting to watch (in most cases). I always thought that May-o would not score enough to beat Tie Rone.

CK_Redhand

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1241 on: September 17, 2021, 10:43:40 AM »
In 2018 final the Tyrone tactics stayed the same until near the end when Cavanagh moved to full forward and they lumped a couple of high balls in.
I think logan and dooher give more freedom and there is now variation in attacks throughout the game e.g. Long kickouts mixed with short, high balls mixed with diagonal runs, breaking the tackle. Under harte it was a deliberate switch on the sideline at a certain point in the match. New management trust players to mix things up and choose the best option the fit the situation and keep the opposition guessing.

Harte deserves a lot of credit but his rigidity held the team back in my opinion.

tiempo

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1242 on: September 17, 2021, 10:49:01 AM »
Would it be a widely held view that the current team is a better one than the recent teams Harte had? Or would they be much of a muchness with the current lot just a tad luckier?
Personally I don’t think this team would have done any better against the Dublin team of 2018.

If this current team and management were about in 2018 the final would have been a lot tighter. For a start Meyler would not have been overturned directly leading to a Dublin goal. The likes of Hampsey, McGeary and McShane are much better players now while the Midfield has come on leaps and bounds too.

Aww gw'an; if me aunty had ballix she'd be me uncle.

For me Logan and Dooher have been able to bring that bite back to the performances, something that was lacking in very winnable semi finals v Mayo and Kerry that were lost, also think Jim and Jim got into Mickey's head and his inability to free up the forwards to play as forwards was a shame, though he was transitioning between the greatest era in Tyrone football and a slight drop off while other teams improved and peaked. The fact we're still at the top table while Cork Galway Down and Meath flounder is huge credit to Mickey, thankfully appears we won't be having a post-Boylan post-McGrath type plummet.

Will always wonder why he put Melyer on Fenton in the 2018 final, but we were always big underdogs for that one, still feel it was winnable but some of the players were still finding their way and have improved a lot this year with the fresh voice.

tonto1888

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1243 on: September 17, 2021, 11:11:16 AM »
Would it be a widely held view that the current team is a better one than the recent teams Harte had? Or would they be much of a muchness with the current lot just a tad luckier?
Personally I don’t think this team would have done any better against the Dublin team of 2018.

If this current team and management were about in 2018 the final would have been a lot tighter. For a start Meyler would not have been overturned directly leading to a Dublin goal. The likes of Hampsey, McGeary and McShane are much better players now while the Midfield has come on leaps and bounds too.

How do you know he wouldn’t have been overturned?

Fear ón Srath Bán

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1244 on: September 17, 2021, 11:14:14 AM »
AOS just needed to look to his left for that free, Conor Loftus was unmarked out on the wing, simple 20 yard pass was on, he never looked, queue boost to Tyrone, they are on the attack.

To me he's the embodiment of Mayo's issues right now, the fact that the management can't help themselves but indulge him.

For a team that has been so consistently perennially so close, closer than we have been over the last decade, for example, it's evident that not much more is required, though we are an example that could be followed here: 90% of the necessary is already in place, but that little extra that only new management could introduce is required.

JH does not seem to be capable for that final push, IMHO; he's good yes, but lacks that je ne sais quoi where new management with no baggage could take a clear eyed objective view of the deficiencies, and address accordingly, he seems too beholden to vested interests, and too wedded perhaps to the conventional.
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