Author Topic: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain  (Read 43425 times)

sid waddell

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1125 on: September 13, 2021, 09:55:39 PM »
Look at the table below (last final in brackets).

In the last 50 years:

Kerry have been in 24 finals, losing 9 (2019)
Dublin have been in 20, losing 7 (2020)
Mayo have been in 11, losing 11 (2021)
Cork have been in 9 finals, losing 6 (2010)
Meath have been in 7, losing 3 (2001)
Tyrone have been in 7, losing 3 (2021)
Galway have been in 7 finals, losing 5 (2001)
Offaly have been in 4, losing 1 (1982)
Down have been in 3, losing 1 (2010)
Donegal have been in 3, losing 1 (2014)
Armagh have been in 3, losing 2 (2003)
Derry has been in 1, losing 0 (1993)
Roscommon have been in 1, losing 1 (1980)

It is very difficult to make it to an All Ireland final. In the last 50 years only 13 counties by my reckoning have reached All-Ireland finals. Outside of Dublin and Kerry, no-one has made it to more than Mayo. 

They have lost them all (shocking), but look at Meath, Galway, Cork - big beasts of the football world and 20 year gaps since the last appearance (and getting longer).  Bad and all as the last 10 years have been for Mayo, they have been at the top table and they have given a lot of joy (and heartache) to their followers. 

However, as Galway and Meath have found out, your place at the top table is not guaranteed. Some year, they won't bounce back and could very well slip into mediocrity.
I think very often winning is what allows a county to slip into long term mediocrity. Had Mayo won '96 or '97 that may well have happened to them too. They keep reaching finals because they haven't won any. It creates urgency.

Down, Derry, Donegal, Armagh, Meath, Cork and Galway all fell away to varying degrees, probably because subconsciously they were sated by victory.

So did Offaly after 1982.

I actually think Mickey Harte's tenure since the 2003-2008 team broke up has been quite under rated in that regard because Tyrone have consistently stayed a top four team. They never fell away like those other counties, which could easily have happened.

Jayop

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1126 on: September 13, 2021, 10:06:22 PM »
Final ranking of the year from Laoisman with Tyrone at their rightful place at the top of the ladder!!  8) 8)

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating|Δ Rating

1|▲2|Tyrone|110.14|3.64

2|=|Dublin|107.58|0.00

3|▼-2|Mayo|106.06|-3.64

4|=|Kerry|101.23|0.00

5|=|Donegal|93.40|0.00

6|=|Galway|92.84|0.00

7|=|Monaghan|92.56|0.00

8|=|Kildare|91.10|0.00

9|=|Meath|90.84|0.00

10|=|Cork|89.48|0.00

11|=|Armagh|89.25|0.00

12|=|Cavan|85.32|0.00

13|=|Derry|85.25|0.00

14|=|Roscommon|85.01|0.00

15|=|Down|82.93|0.00

16|=|Clare|82.33|0.00

17|=|Westmeath|80.86|0.00

18|=|Offaly|78.50|0.00

19|=|Longford|76.71|0.00

20|=|Tipperary|76.17|0.00

21|=|Laois|72.46|0.00

22|=|Limerick|72.10|0.00

23|=|Antrim|72.05|0.00

24|=|Fermanagh|71.77|0.00

25|=|Louth|68.39|0.00

26|=|Wexford|65.63|0.00

27|=|Wicklow|64.12|0.00

28|=|Carlow|63.34|0.00

29|=|Leitrim|62.00|0.00

30|=|Sligo|59.04|0.00

31|=|New York|58.08|0.00

32|=|Waterford|57.60|0.00

33|=|London|50.93|0.00

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1127 on: September 13, 2021, 11:12:35 PM »
Final ranking of the year from Laoisman with Tyrone at their rightful place at the top of the ladder!!  8) 8)

#|Δ Rank|Team|Rating|Δ Rating

1|▲2|Tyrone|110.14|3.64

2|=|Dublin|107.58|0.00

******

32|=|Waterford|57.60|0.00

33|=|London|50.93|0.00

Would be good to see movement since last year's final
Hasta la victoria siempre

Jayop

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1128 on: September 13, 2021, 11:32:17 PM »
This is from just after last years final.

1 | = | Dublin | 112.28 | 1.29
2 | = | Mayo | 104.17 | -1.29
3 | = | Kerry | 101.95 | 0.00
4 | = | Donegal | 98.77 | 0.00
5 | = | Tyrone | 98.15 | 0.00
6 | = | Cavan | 97.87 | 0.00
7 | = | Galway | 93.47 | 0.00
8 | = | Meath | 92.45 | 0.00
9 | = | Roscommon | 92.30 | 0.00
10 | = | Armagh | 90.76 | 0.00
11 | = | Cork | 86.53 | 0.00
12 | = | Monaghan | 86.52 | 0.00
13 | = | Laois | 85.56 | 0.00
14 | = | Tipperary | 85.05 | 0.00
15 | = | Kildare | 83.49 | 0.00
16 | = | Westmeath | 81.93 | 0.00
17 | = | Down | 80.98 | 0.00
18 | = | Clare | 79.52 | 0.00
19 | = | Derry | 76.64 | 0.00
20 | = | Longford | 74.96 | 0.00
21 | = | Offaly | 72.49 | 0.00
22 | = | Fermanagh | 71.36 | 0.00
23 | = | Wicklow | 70.21 | 0.00
24 | = | Antrim | 69.34 | 0.00
25 | = | Limerick | 68.18 | 0.00
26 | = | Leitrim | 67.85 | 0.00
27 | = | Carlow | 65.06 | 0.00
28 | = | Louth | 64.87 | 0.00
29 | = | Sligo | 61.82 | 0.00
30 | = | Wexford | 60.16 | 0.00
31 | = | Waterford | 56.59 | 0.00
32 | = | New York | 55.07 | 0.00
33 | = | London | 50.10 | 0.00

armaghniac

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1129 on: September 13, 2021, 11:51:52 PM »
Cavan declined quite a bit in that year, but there are 7 Ulster teams in the top half and Antrim have moved off the bottom in Ulster.
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BennyCake

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1130 on: September 14, 2021, 12:12:04 AM »
Tyrone08 was spot on about Aidan O'Shea, very overrated for a player who cannot catch a ball cleanly or pass it with hand or foot. Our management team have made a few mistakes this year with some selections but few in the county thought we would get to the AI final last year, let alone this year. That said, we cannot keep coming back each year to accept defeat so easily and making cheap excuses, any of those players who played in the AI final should have been kicking down doors to win this year. Tyrone were the better team on the day, they did the simple things well and some of their scores were top drawer, well done. You give counties like Mayo the hope that one day we will eventually get over the line but we need to change this casual mindset and stop comments like " sure we will be back next year".

100%. There will come a day when we will stop getting to finals regularly. Sure it was 38 years after 1951.

It’s mad that Mayo only won 7 Connachts between 1952 and 1989.
Emigration might have had something to.do with it.
Plus Galway and Ros were strong for various stretches


Definitely part of the story

Dermot Earley was full a blown Mayo man-even born in Castlebar and a first cousin of Publican Mick Byrne

His father got a job one mile over the border in Roscommon and slipped through our fingers

Captain of the 1983 U21 team-Gerry Geraghty emigrated to Chicago and was as good if not better than Willie Joe Padden

Pearce Hanley would have developed into one of the top 4 midfielders in the country

On the other hand more recently

Keith Higgins father was a Galway man (must be where he got his hurling skills from)

Donal Vaughan’s parents both from Cork (I think)

The O’Sheas were born in Mullingar (Kerry parents) ****corrected*****

Lee Keegan-actually is English born and not a drop of Mayo blood in him

Are Keegan’s parents Irish then?

I remember reading a book about some of the unfortunate incidents involving Mayo players. Wasn’t one fella working in the garda and was shot during an armed robbery? Then another fella Ted Webb was killed crossing the train tracks. Both great prospects it seems.

BennyCake

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1131 on: September 14, 2021, 12:13:05 AM »
Look at the table below (last final in brackets).

In the last 50 years:

Kerry have been in 24 finals, losing 9 (2019)
Dublin have been in 20, losing 7 (2020)
Mayo have been in 11, losing 11 (2021)
Cork have been in 9 finals, losing 6 (2010)
Meath have been in 7, losing 3 (2001)
Tyrone have been in 7, losing 3 (2021)
Galway have been in 7 finals, losing 5 (2001)
Offaly have been in 4, losing 1 (1982)
Down have been in 3, losing 1 (2010)
Donegal have been in 3, losing 1 (2014)
Armagh have been in 3, losing 2 (2003)
Derry has been in 1, losing 0 (1993)
Roscommon have been in 1, losing 1 (1980)

It is very difficult to make it to an All Ireland final. In the last 50 years only 13 counties by my reckoning have reached All-Ireland finals. Outside of Dublin and Kerry, no-one has made it to more than Mayo. 

They have lost them all (shocking), but look at Meath, Galway, Cork - big beasts of the football world and 20 year gaps since the last appearance (and getting longer).  Bad and all as the last 10 years have been for Mayo, they have been at the top table and they have given a lot of joy (and heartache) to their followers. 

However, as Galway and Meath have found out, your place at the top table is not guaranteed. Some year, they won't bounce back and could very well slip into mediocrity.

Are you a cute Kerry hoor by any chance?? Claiming all Ireland’s  that you didn’t actually win

No wonder you have 37  ;D

1981 is the last final Offaly lost, the year in parentheses (1982) is the year of the last final they were in.

Cork have been in 10 finals since 73 (excl. Replays) losing 6.

Ah yes, my mistake.

But you can’t be too careful where these cute Kerry hoors are concerned  ;D

Blowitupref

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1132 on: September 14, 2021, 12:20:30 AM »
Tyrone08 was spot on about Aidan O'Shea, very overrated for a player who cannot catch a ball cleanly or pass it with hand or foot. Our management team have made a few mistakes this year with some selections but few in the county thought we would get to the AI final last year, let alone this year. That said, we cannot keep coming back each year to accept defeat so easily and making cheap excuses, any of those players who played in the AI final should have been kicking down doors to win this year. Tyrone were the better team on the day, they did the simple things well and some of their scores were top drawer, well done. You give counties like Mayo the hope that one day we will eventually get over the line but we need to change this casual mindset and stop comments like " sure we will be back next year".

100%. There will come a day when we will stop getting to finals regularly. Sure it was 38 years after 1951.

It’s mad that Mayo only won 7 Connachts between 1952 and 1989.
Emigration might have had something to.do with it.
Plus Galway and Ros were strong for various stretches


Definitely part of the story

Dermot Earley was full a blown Mayo man-even born in Castlebar and a first cousin of Publican Mick Byrne

His father got a job one mile over the border in Roscommon and slipped through our fingers

Captain of the 1983 U21 team-Gerry Geraghty emigrated to Chicago and was as good if not better than Willie Joe Padden

Pearce Hanley would have developed into one of the top 4 midfielders in the country

On the other hand more recently

Keith Higgins father was a Galway man (must be where he got his hurling skills from)

Donal Vaughan’s parents both from Cork (I think)

The O’Sheas were born in Mullingar (Kerry parents) ****corrected*****

Lee Keegan-actually is English born and not a drop of Mayo blood in him

Are Keegan’s parents Irish then?

I remember reading a book about some of the unfortunate incidents involving Mayo players. Wasn’t one fella working in the garda and was shot during an armed robbery? Then another fella Ted Webb was killed crossing the train tracks. Both great prospects it seems.

John Morley, played with Mayo seniors 1961–1974. He was 37 when he was killed in 1980. The Connacht U16 competition is named after the late Ted Webb.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Gael85

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1133 on: September 14, 2021, 12:28:26 AM »
Tyrone08 was spot on about Aidan O'Shea, very overrated for a player who cannot catch a ball cleanly or pass it with hand or foot. Our management team have made a few mistakes this year with some selections but few in the county thought we would get to the AI final last year, let alone this year. That said, we cannot keep coming back each year to accept defeat so easily and making cheap excuses, any of those players who played in the AI final should have been kicking down doors to win this year. Tyrone were the better team on the day, they did the simple things well and some of their scores were top drawer, well done. You give counties like Mayo the hope that one day we will eventually get over the line but we need to change this casual mindset and stop comments like " sure we will be back next year".

100%. There will come a day when we will stop getting to finals regularly. Sure it was 38 years after 1951.

It’s mad that Mayo only won 7 Connachts between 1952 and 1989.
Emigration might have had something to.do with it.
Plus Galway and Ros were strong for various stretches


Definitely part of the story

Dermot Earley was full a blown Mayo man-even born in Castlebar and a first cousin of Publican Mick Byrne

His father got a job one mile over the border in Roscommon and slipped through our fingers

Captain of the 1983 U21 team-Gerry Geraghty emigrated to Chicago and was as good if not better than Willie Joe Padden

Pearce Hanley would have developed into one of the top 4 midfielders in the country

On the other hand more recently

Keith Higgins father was a Galway man (must be where he got his hurling skills from)

Donal Vaughan’s parents both from Cork (I think)

The O’Sheas were born in Mullingar (Kerry parents) ****corrected*****

Lee Keegan-actually is English born and not a drop of Mayo blood in him

Are Keegan’s parents Irish then?

I remember reading a book about some of the unfortunate incidents involving Mayo players. Wasn’t one fella working in the garda and was shot during an armed robbery? Then another fella Ted Webb was killed crossing the train tracks. Both great prospects it seems.

John Morley, played with Mayo seniors 1961–1974. He was 37 when he was killed in 1980. The Connacht U16 competition is named after the late Ted Webb.

His son Gordon Morley played with Mayo in 1999. Think played club football with Salthill.

Gael85

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1134 on: September 14, 2021, 12:29:34 AM »
Tyrone08 was spot on about Aidan O'Shea, very overrated for a player who cannot catch a ball cleanly or pass it with hand or foot. Our management team have made a few mistakes this year with some selections but few in the county thought we would get to the AI final last year, let alone this year. That said, we cannot keep coming back each year to accept defeat so easily and making cheap excuses, any of those players who played in the AI final should have been kicking down doors to win this year. Tyrone were the better team on the day, they did the simple things well and some of their scores were top drawer, well done. You give counties like Mayo the hope that one day we will eventually get over the line but we need to change this casual mindset and stop comments like " sure we will be back next year".

100%. There will come a day when we will stop getting to finals regularly. Sure it was 38 years after 1951.

It’s mad that Mayo only won 7 Connachts between 1952 and 1989.
Emigration might have had something to.do with it.
Plus Galway and Ros were strong for various stretches


Definitely part of the story

Dermot Earley was full a blown Mayo man-even born in Castlebar and a first cousin of Publican Mick Byrne

His father got a job one mile over the border in Roscommon and slipped through our fingers

Captain of the 1983 U21 team-Gerry Geraghty emigrated to Chicago and was as good if not better than Willie Joe Padden

Pearce Hanley would have developed into one of the top 4 midfielders in the country

On the other hand more recently

Keith Higgins father was a Galway man (must be where he got his hurling skills from)

Donal Vaughan’s parents both from Cork (I think)

The O’Sheas were born in Mullingar (Kerry parents) ****corrected*****

Lee Keegan-actually is English born and not a drop of Mayo blood in him

Are Keegan’s parents Irish then?

I remember reading a book about some of the unfortunate incidents involving Mayo players. Wasn’t one fella working in the garda and was shot during an armed robbery? Then another fella Ted Webb was killed crossing the train tracks. Both great prospects it seems.

Think Keegan was born and lived in Cavan.

whitey

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1135 on: September 14, 2021, 12:41:09 AM »
Tyrone08 was spot on about Aidan O'Shea, very overrated for a player who cannot catch a ball cleanly or pass it with hand or foot. Our management team have made a few mistakes this year with some selections but few in the county thought we would get to the AI final last year, let alone this year. That said, we cannot keep coming back each year to accept defeat so easily and making cheap excuses, any of those players who played in the AI final should have been kicking down doors to win this year. Tyrone were the better team on the day, they did the simple things well and some of their scores were top drawer, well done. You give counties like Mayo the hope that one day we will eventually get over the line but we need to change this casual mindset and stop comments like " sure we will be back next year".

100%. There will come a day when we will stop getting to finals regularly. Sure it was 38 years after 1951.

It’s mad that Mayo only won 7 Connachts between 1952 and 1989.
Emigration might have had something to.do with it.
Plus Galway and Ros were strong for various stretches


Definitely part of the story

Dermot Earley was full a blown Mayo man-even born in Castlebar and a first cousin of Publican Mick Byrne

His father got a job one mile over the border in Roscommon and slipped through our fingers

Captain of the 1983 U21 team-Gerry Geraghty emigrated to Chicago and was as good if not better than Willie Joe Padden

Pearce Hanley would have developed into one of the top 4 midfielders in the country

On the other hand more recently

Keith Higgins father was a Galway man (must be where he got his hurling skills from)

Donal Vaughan’s parents both from Cork (I think)

The O’Sheas were born in Mullingar (Kerry parents) ****corrected*****

Lee Keegan-actually is English born and not a drop of Mayo blood in him

Are Keegan’s parents Irish then?

I remember reading a book about some of the unfortunate incidents involving Mayo players. Wasn’t one fella working in the garda and was shot during an armed robbery? Then another fella Ted Webb was killed crossing the train tracks. Both great prospects it seems.

Keegan’s mother was from Cavan….his father was an Englishman

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/lee-keegan-interview-mayo-s-man-apart-on-how-gaelic-football-was-not-for-him-1.2587486

John Morley was well retired by the time he was gunned down by the INLA.  He one of the best players for  Mayo that had the great battles with Galway during the 1960s. When Mayo finally bested them in 1967, Morley missed the semi final due to appendicitis and Mayo lost to Meath who then went on to lift Sam

https://www.mayonews.ie/?option=com_content&view=article&id=9514:john-morley-was-mayos-best-number-six&catid=26&Itemid=54

Ted Webb would have been Mayo’ s David Clifford or Con O Callaghan

John O Mahoney dropped him home from training and soon after he got a call to pick up a relative from a pub.  His car got hit by an unscheduled freight train and was killed instantly

seafoid

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1136 on: September 14, 2021, 06:34:36 AM »
Cavan declined quite a bit in that year, but there are 7 Ulster teams in the top half and Antrim have moved off the bottom in Ulster.
Cavan did a scenic tour of all the divisions. For a few
years they were tracking Roscommon in bouncing up and down between D1 and D2
 but they went their own way to explore D3 and D4
Lookit

Applesisapples

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1137 on: September 14, 2021, 08:58:58 AM »
I think we’re analysing things to death now. I’d say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you’ll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I’d expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them’s the breaks.

Definitely not away with it, I just think you're looking at it with red and white glasses on. O'Hora should have seen black for the McCurry pull down and got 10 minutes in the sin bin. The same player could have easily had a penalty kick instead of a 13m free kick only minutes after that incident. As for how each of those incidents affected the eventual outcome, well that's just opinion. The penalty would have put Mayo 1 point up at a crucial point of the game, maybe they still would have lost the match but thats guesswork.   
It’s one of a multitude of decisions that go one way or the other in a game. I think your over egging it TBH. I agree the other one could have been called a penalty as well. Just as the McCurry tackle could have been a BC or the first point could have been blown for charging. I think it’s usually a good signal when there’s been few Mayo fans complaining about it. That tends to signal the significance of the incident.

I think probably at this stage that the Mayo fans don't even want to begin thinking about the match, and understandably so. If I was a Mayo supporter the last thing I would want to do is rewatch that match again and I'm not saying that McQuillan was the reason for the defeat. Far from it. The reason I brought it up was to counter the argument that McQuillan was biased against Tyrone which somebody posted up earlier in the thread. Mayo didn't deserve to win imo but that is not to say that those incidents and the non award of a retaken spot kick did not impact the direction of the match.   
I am an Armagh man, McQuillan was poor for both sides but his poor decisions against Tyrone had a greater impact on the result  IMO. He is a poor ref full stop.

Itchy

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1138 on: September 14, 2021, 09:20:13 AM »
I think we’re analysing things to death now. I’d say that penalty could be taken that way 10 times and I doubt a ref would retake any.
Same with the penalty incident. The only clear bit was that it was straight off the carpet so little room for complaints.

I did think the McCurry tackle was as clear a black card as you’ll see tho. It was kind of text book for black card.

Or are we only analysing it to death when it is a decision that went massively in Tyrones favour. It was probably the single biggest turning point of the match.

Very few people could see the reason for the Hennelly retaken 45 in the semi final but that penalty was much more obvious for a referee to have spotted. It was a set piece where the play was slowed down and his eyes would have been focussed entirely on the goalkeeper having just spoken to him seconds beforehand presumably to warn him about staying on his line.

I think your away with it. As said before I’d expect the same kick to be allowed 10 out of 10 times. Tyrone win that game regardless of how that penalty went IMO. The Black card for the McCurry tackle was equally as important. Them’s the breaks.

Definitely not away with it, I just think you're looking at it with red and white glasses on. O'Hora should have seen black for the McCurry pull down and got 10 minutes in the sin bin. The same player could have easily had a penalty kick instead of a 13m free kick only minutes after that incident. As for how each of those incidents affected the eventual outcome, well that's just opinion. The penalty would have put Mayo 1 point up at a crucial point of the game, maybe they still would have lost the match but thats guesswork.   
It’s one of a multitude of decisions that go one way or the other in a game. I think your over egging it TBH. I agree the other one could have been called a penalty as well. Just as the McCurry tackle could have been a BC or the first point could have been blown for charging. I think it’s usually a good signal when there’s been few Mayo fans complaining about it. That tends to signal the significance of the incident.

I think probably at this stage that the Mayo fans don't even want to begin thinking about the match, and understandably so. If I was a Mayo supporter the last thing I would want to do is rewatch that match again and I'm not saying that McQuillan was the reason for the defeat. Far from it. The reason I brought it up was to counter the argument that McQuillan was biased against Tyrone which somebody posted up earlier in the thread. Mayo didn't deserve to win imo but that is not to say that those incidents and the non award of a retaken spot kick did not impact the direction of the match.   
I am an Armagh man, McQuillan was poor for both sides but his poor decisions against Tyrone had a greater impact on the result  IMO. He is a poor ref full stop.

I thought McQuillan did fine. Jesus you know refs cant get every single call right in 70 minutes of high intensity football. He called both penalties correctly, the black card he didnt give was borderline and couldve went either way. Both teams prob got a soft free or two but thats the way it goes. To say he is a poor ref is just bullshit.

An Watcher

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Re: AIF 2021 -- Maigh Eo vs Tír Eoghain
« Reply #1139 on: September 14, 2021, 09:26:22 AM »
The black card was a massive call and due to the fact Tyrone got 2 in the semi final, it was a poor call.  The penalty could have been a free out but when not given I have no qualms over the lift off the ground