Has the intercounty system in football told us all it’s ever going to tell us?

[thewobbler]

And somewhere along the line, hopefully this will register with you:

1. If a county has to host 24 club championship games (48 clubs, a pretty solid representation of most counties) in one week in March, then every single year this will put on extraordinary pressure on a couple of venues in that county, and in some years, stormy weekend will see the majority or  all 24 games cancelled and needing rehoused at a later date. It's a logistical mindfuck.

2. If a county has to host one single county championship match and they can turn to their county pitch, which hasn't been used in the past 7 days, then it will usually be playable, even in a harsh March. But if it isn't, there's still only one fixture that needs rehoused. It's a minor logistical issue involving two sets of administrators and can be solved quickly.

——

So quick you were to point out that 5-figure attendances can have a huge variance, when it was not relevant.

So slow are you to realise that 24 times one, is in fact 24 times one. It more or less equates to the 98% versus the 2%. And you are so blinded by your lack of understanding of how the GAA operates outside Dublin, that you just can't wrap your head around this basic mathematical concept.

Wise up Sid. Draw a line under this. Move on.

[thewobbler]

And as a footnote, if you haven't worked out that my reference to the warmer months was in reference to national leagues being played in jan-feb, and the new championship structure kicking off March-April, well then, once again you are being obtuse.

[6th sam]

Now if you wanted to keep a regular programme of club championship games over a number of months - and keep the inter-county championships where they need to be in the calendar - finishing in September - ie. not completely separate the club and county seasons - this is probably how you'd do it

You provide seven designated club championship matchdays each for hurling and football from April to October - you stop all inter-county action on these matchdays and you introduce a rule centrally that county boards have to hold club championship action on these matchdays

Seven designated matchdays is ample time to finish a club hurling or football championship by October 17th, even if your county team reaches an All-Ireland final

All non-round robin games bar the All-Ireland finals go to extra-time and penalties if necessary

2021

Jan 31 NFL 1
Feb 7 NFL 2/NHL 1
Feb 14 NFL 3/NHL 2
Feb 21 NHL 3
Feb 28 NFL 4
Mar 7 NFL 5/NHL 4
Mar 14 NFL 6/NHL 5
Mar 21 NFL 7/NHL 6
Mar 28 NHL 7
Apr 4 NFL FINAL
Apr 11 NHL FINAL
Apr 18 Club Football Matchday 1
Apr 25 Club Hurling Matchday 1
May 2 Club Football Matchday 2
May 9 Club Hurling Matchday 2
May 16 Football Provincial Prelims
May 23 Hurling Provincial 1/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
May 30 Hurling Provincial 2/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
Jun 6 Club Football Matchday 3
Jun 9 (Midweek) Club Hurling Matchday 3
Jun 13 Club Football Matchday 4
Jun 20 Hurling Provincial 3/Football Provincial Semi-Finals/Football Qualifiers 1
Jun 27 Hurling Provincial 4/Football Provincial Semi-Finals
Jul 4 Hurling Provincial 5
Jul 11 Football Provincial Finals/Football Qualifiers 2
Jul 18 Hurling Provincial Finals/Football Provincial Finals/ Football Qualifiers 3
Jul 25 Club Hurling Matchday 4
Jul 28 (Midweek) Club Football Matchday 5
August 1 Club Hurling Matchday 5
August 8 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals /Football Qualifiers 4
August 15 All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals
August 22 All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
August 29 All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals
September 5 All-Ireland Hurling Final (replay September 18)
September 12 All-Ireland Football Final (replay September 19)
September 26 Club Hurling Matchday 6
October 3 Club Football Matchday 6
October 10 Club Hurling Matchday 7
October 17 Club Football Matchday 7
October 24 Provincial Club Prelims
October 31 Provincial Club Q/F or S/F
November 7 Provincial Club Q/F OR S/F
November 14 Provincial Club Finals or S/F
November 21 Provincial Club Finals
December 5 All-Ireland Club Semi-Finals
December 19 All-Ireland Club Finals

Is this a serious post?
Have u any knowledge of the demands on county footballers and managers? Do you honestly think it is going to work by disrupting an AI campaign with club fixtures. The whole thrust of the split season is to protect players who currently are expected to endure a year of misery with little chance of success. It may seem OK for Dublin players who are heavily rewarded by the system and their multiple perks .

[6th sam]

AI is an easily marketable product regardless of the time of year.

April to June is perhaps the worst possible time to market All-Ireland championships

The soccer season is coming to an end, Champions League, Premier League etc., Heineken Cup in rugby,

And World Cups and Euros every second year, which obliterate everything else

It's a very crowded time of year

I remember in '94, Dublin played Kildare, a fixture which had drawn over 60k the previous two years, it was on the same day as Ireland v Italy, it drew 22k, the replay drew around the same

Tradition dies hard

The October NBA finals, with the Lakers and LeBron, were the lowest rated in many years this year

The November US Masters didn't work at all in my view

There's even something off about August All-Irelands, never mind June

September is the time for All-Irelands, October would be better than August

It's the worst time to market?? There have been championship games for years in May/June, they'd be even easier to market if there are games week on week. Again this year showed the benefit of that. For the county player it's a case of enjoy sole focus on the county game, then back to help your local mates, when county season on , fringe club players get a chance to fight for their place when full deck are back. What's not to like?

May/June games are early season games, they're at the start of the summer

Remember Armagh v Down 2011? It clashed with the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United

You don't market against that, you simply get crushed

Even Derry v Down 1994 lost a lot of exposure because it was on the same day as Germany v Ireland when Ireland won 2-0

What you're now proposing is that early season championship games take place in March or early April

And that's an even harder sell because the weather is not as good and key late season soccer matches also tend to take place on those Sundays

It's also better for the clubs to have their players play when they're fresh - before the inter-county championship - as well as giving club players a genuine chance to stake a place for the county team

Look at Ballymun this year - what was the difference? Freshness of key players - McCarthy, Small, Rock, McMahon, who in previous seasons have not performed in the Dublin championship because they were jaded after the county season

😂😂 I didn't even know Ireland played Germany that day. perhaps the US masters was on the same day for all I know. I seem to remember Derry's  Celtic Park was a full house anyway 😂. Perhaps we wouldn't have filled Croke Park that day but Tbf even the mighty Dubs can't even half fill Croke park anymore despite the current exposure ( and advantages) they enjoy, and which you propose to continue.
Since you brought up Down, here's a stat for you to consider, since Down beat Dublin in the 1994 AI final, Down have enjoyed home venue for Championship including qualifiers on , I'm guessing , 15 occasions , whilst the Dubs have never had a championship game in their home venue, instead they've had to navigate their way to the national stadium on , I'm guessing over 200  Occasions . I respect Dublin players and management for what they e achieved, but they'll never get the credit they deserve because of the advantages they enjoy under their current system. NFL/NBA have the draft system and even FIFA have financial restrictions, To try to get as level a playing field as possible, yet in the GAA we continue to give Dublin a leg up , whilst lowering the bar at the same time. You couldn't make it up🤦🏻‍♂️

[6th sam]

Sid's take is that the GAA championship will suffer in competition with soccer, even though the championship has always shared 3 of its 5 month season with cross-channel soccer and world cups.

Actually when you type that up it's ludicrous. 5 months to run off a competition where the winners play at most 10 matches.

But I still don't understand the take. When the championship is knockout and competitive, stadiums are full. Doesn't matter whether it's round 1 in May, or the final on September. When the games are dead rubbers and/or non competitive, they half fill Croke Park, even for semi finals in August.

It's a quality competition that attracts people. The media don't create a competition, but they feed on it when it catches public imagination. Time of year is a small, maybe even trivial factor.

Of course what you neglect to mention is that the two months of the English soccer season the GAA championships have traditionally been played in are August and September, when interest in English soccer is far less

Of course the GAA championships suffer from being at the same time as World Cups and Euros - an early season Super Sunday between Brighton and Newcastle, well, not so much

Do you think Derry v Donegal 2002 suffered in terms of general interest?

Did Dublin v Meath 2010 suffer in terms of general interest?

Did Armagh v Down 2011 suffer in terms of general interest?

Did Dublin v Meath 2016 suffer in terms of general interest?

Of course they did, everybody outside the die hards was watching the World Cup, the Champions League final and the Euros

Scheduling the business end of your championships to clash with the end of the soccer season, the World Cup and Euros is pure idiocy

Although perhaps not if you come the rural True Gael™ paradise you inhabit!

But the GAA faces competition - if you're a corner shop with a reliable clientele because there are no other shops within a mile, you don't close down the shop, up sticks and set up behind the Tesco superstore five miles away

Some list,
These soccer clashes obviously grate with you. I like the groundball myself, and think clashes could be avoided simply by changing days rather than a whole fixture list.I don't see FAI/IFA allowing GAA fixtures to dictate their decision making , sadly.

[6th sam]

Earlier you were making out that April was something akin to monsoon season

Now March is a "warmer month"

I'm not sure I've ever been colder than on the lower deck of the Cusack Stand on Paddy's Day 2008 with an Arctic wind cutting through me, me teeth were chattering

The night of Paddy's Day 2016 perhaps, when me teeth were chattering again walking home pissed from a Damien Dempsey gig

10/3/13 for Dublin v Kildare was another teeth chatterer
As was 28/3/15 for Dublin v Derry (RIP)
23/2/19 for Dublin v Mayo was balmy and still, however, that's Ireland for ya
As was 3/12/17 for Liam Mellows v St. Thomas at Salthill and 22/11/15 for Sarsfields v Craughwell at the same venue

Anyway, March can be cold, it can be bloody cold

I'll tell you what, I was at Parkhead a few years ago in December, watching Celtic v Bayern . It must have been cold as I had 5 layers on but I didn't notice it , as 62000 fans were watching a top game on a perfect pitch. I was surprised to see such a big crowd , as it clashed with "Strictly" which was on the same night😂

[6th sam]

And somewhere along the line, hopefully this will register with you:

1. If a county has to host 24 club championship games (48 clubs, a pretty solid representation of most counties) in one week in March, then every single year this will put on extraordinary pressure on a couple of venues in that county, and in some years, stormy weekend will see the majority or  all 24 games cancelled and needing rehoused at a later date. It's a logistical mindfuck.

2. If a county has to host one single county championship match and they can turn to their county pitch, which hasn't been used in the past 7 days, then it will usually be playable, even in a harsh March. But if it isn't, there's still only one fixture that needs rehoused. It's a minor logistical issue involving two sets of administrators and can be solved quickly.

——

So quick you were to point out that 5-figure attendances can have a huge variance, when it was not relevant.

So slow are you to realise that 24 times one, is in fact 24 times one. It more or less equates to the 98% versus the 2%. And you are so blinded by your lack of understanding of how the GAA operates outside Dublin, that you just can't wrap your head around this basic mathematical concept.

Wise up Sid. Draw a line under this. Move on.

Though unusually for you wobbler, your maths are slightly exaggerated on this, I 100% agree , as would anyone with a knowledge of the actual logistics involved at club and county level.

[sid waddell]

And somewhere along the line, hopefully this will register with you:

1. If a county has to host 24 club championship games (48 clubs, a pretty solid representation of most counties) in one week in March, then every single year this will put on extraordinary pressure on a couple of venues in that county, and in some years, stormy weekend will see the majority or  all 24 games cancelled and needing rehoused at a later date. It's a logistical mindfuck.

2. If a county has to host one single county championship match and they can turn to their county pitch, which hasn't been used in the past 7 days, then it will usually be playable, even in a harsh March. But if it isn't, there's still only one fixture that needs rehoused. It's a minor logistical issue involving two sets of administrators and can be solved quickly.

——

So quick you were to point out that 5-figure attendances can have a huge variance, when it was not relevant.

So slow are you to realise that 24 times one, is in fact 24 times one. It more or less equates to the 98% versus the 2%. And you are so blinded by your lack of understanding of how the GAA operates outside Dublin, that you just can't wrap your head around this basic mathematical concept.

Wise up Sid. Draw a line under this. Move on.

I put forward two plans

Where have I suggested playing club championship games in March

Go on

That 98% figure again - the one that's wrong

But sure keep arguing with points nobody made

As you might say yourself, wise up

Because you sure need to

[sid waddell]

Now if you wanted to keep a regular programme of club championship games over a number of months - and keep the inter-county championships where they need to be in the calendar - finishing in September - ie. not completely separate the club and county seasons - this is probably how you'd do it

You provide seven designated club championship matchdays each for hurling and football from April to October - you stop all inter-county action on these matchdays and you introduce a rule centrally that county boards have to hold club championship action on these matchdays

Seven designated matchdays is ample time to finish a club hurling or football championship by October 17th, even if your county team reaches an All-Ireland final

All non-round robin games bar the All-Ireland finals go to extra-time and penalties if necessary

2021

Jan 31 NFL 1
Feb 7 NFL 2/NHL 1
Feb 14 NFL 3/NHL 2
Feb 21 NHL 3
Feb 28 NFL 4
Mar 7 NFL 5/NHL 4
Mar 14 NFL 6/NHL 5
Mar 21 NFL 7/NHL 6
Mar 28 NHL 7
Apr 4 NFL FINAL
Apr 11 NHL FINAL
Apr 18 Club Football Matchday 1
Apr 25 Club Hurling Matchday 1
May 2 Club Football Matchday 2
May 9 Club Hurling Matchday 2
May 16 Football Provincial Prelims
May 23 Hurling Provincial 1/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
May 30 Hurling Provincial 2/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
Jun 6 Club Football Matchday 3
Jun 9 (Midweek) Club Hurling Matchday 3
Jun 13 Club Football Matchday 4
Jun 20 Hurling Provincial 3/Football Provincial Semi-Finals/Football Qualifiers 1
Jun 27 Hurling Provincial 4/Football Provincial Semi-Finals
Jul 4 Hurling Provincial 5
Jul 11 Football Provincial Finals/Football Qualifiers 2
Jul 18 Hurling Provincial Finals/Football Provincial Finals/ Football Qualifiers 3
Jul 25 Club Hurling Matchday 4
Jul 28 (Midweek) Club Football Matchday 5
August 1 Club Hurling Matchday 5
August 8 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals /Football Qualifiers 4
August 15 All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals
August 22 All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
August 29 All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals
September 5 All-Ireland Hurling Final (replay September 18)
September 12 All-Ireland Football Final (replay September 19)
September 26 Club Hurling Matchday 6
October 3 Club Football Matchday 6
October 10 Club Hurling Matchday 7
October 17 Club Football Matchday 7
October 24 Provincial Club Prelims
October 31 Provincial Club Q/F or S/F
November 7 Provincial Club Q/F OR S/F
November 14 Provincial Club Finals or S/F
November 21 Provincial Club Finals
December 5 All-Ireland Club Semi-Finals
December 19 All-Ireland Club Finals

Is this a serious post?
Have u any knowledge of the demands on county footballers and managers? Do you honestly think it is going to work by disrupting an AI campaign with club fixtures. The whole thrust of the split season is to protect players who currently are expected to endure a year of misery with little chance of success. It may seem OK for Dublin players who are heavily rewarded by the system and their multiple perks .

The narrative shifts yet again

First it was "we want games", "we want certainty"

Now it seems that's not the case at all

It's mad, people are saying the county managers have too much power - now they don't have enough power?

Players manage to play for different teams in other sports just fine - heard of international windows in soocer? Which involve far more travel than lining out for your club a few times during the summer

As regards "protecting players", let's take a successful county player in Ulster whose county ends up in the prelim of the Ulster championship, let's say they go all the way to the All-Ireland

Under the above plan he'll have matches on
April 18th (club)
May 2nd (club)
May 16th (county)
May 30 (county)
June 6th (club)
June 13th (club)
June 27th (county)
July 11th or 18th (county)
July 28th (club)
August 15th (county)
August 29th (county)
September 12th (county)

Let's say his club reaches the All-Ireland club final
He might be out again on October 3rd
Then October 17th
November 1st
November 8th
November 22nd
December 5th
December 19th

It sounds pretty reasonable to me

Yet it seems no plan other than the hare brained idea to shoehorn the most important competitions the GAA has into spring and early summer is good enough for some

Bizarre stuff

[sid waddell]

AI is an easily marketable product regardless of the time of year.

April to June is perhaps the worst possible time to market All-Ireland championships

The soccer season is coming to an end, Champions League, Premier League etc., Heineken Cup in rugby,

And World Cups and Euros every second year, which obliterate everything else

It's a very crowded time of year

I remember in '94, Dublin played Kildare, a fixture which had drawn over 60k the previous two years, it was on the same day as Ireland v Italy, it drew 22k, the replay drew around the same

Tradition dies hard

The October NBA finals, with the Lakers and LeBron, were the lowest rated in many years this year

The November US Masters didn't work at all in my view

There's even something off about August All-Irelands, never mind June

September is the time for All-Irelands, October would be better than August

It's the worst time to market?? There have been championship games for years in May/June, they'd be even easier to market if there are games week on week. Again this year showed the benefit of that. For the county player it's a case of enjoy sole focus on the county game, then back to help your local mates, when county season on , fringe club players get a chance to fight for their place when full deck are back. What's not to like?

May/June games are early season games, they're at the start of the summer

Remember Armagh v Down 2011? It clashed with the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United

You don't market against that, you simply get crushed

Even Derry v Down 1994 lost a lot of exposure because it was on the same day as Germany v Ireland when Ireland won 2-0

What you're now proposing is that early season championship games take place in March or early April

And that's an even harder sell because the weather is not as good and key late season soccer matches also tend to take place on those Sundays

It's also better for the clubs to have their players play when they're fresh - before the inter-county championship - as well as giving club players a genuine chance to stake a place for the county team

Look at Ballymun this year - what was the difference? Freshness of key players - McCarthy, Small, Rock, McMahon, who in previous seasons have not performed in the Dublin championship because they were jaded after the county season

😂😂 I didn't even know Ireland played Germany that day. perhaps the US masters was on the same day for all I know. I seem to remember Derry's  Celtic Park was a full house anyway 😂. Perhaps we wouldn't have filled Croke Park that day but Tbf even the mighty Dubs can't even half fill Croke park anymore despite the current exposure ( and advantages) they enjoy, and which you propose to continue.
Since you brought up Down, here's a stat for you to consider, since Down beat Dublin in the 1994 AI final, Down have enjoyed home venue for Championship including qualifiers on , I'm guessing , 15 occasions , whilst the Dubs have never had a championship game in their home venue, instead they've had to navigate their way to the national stadium on , I'm guessing over 200  Occasions . I respect Dublin players and management for what they e achieved, but they'll never get the credit they deserve because of the advantages they enjoy under their current system. NFL/NBA have the draft system and even FIFA have financial restrictions, To try to get as level a playing field as possible, yet in the GAA we continue to give Dublin a leg up , whilst lowering the bar at the same time. You couldn't make it up🤦🏻‍♂️

No Dublin supporter objects to Dublin being taken out of Croke Park, or to away championship venues - Dublin supporters would only love that - going on the road to support your team is what it's all about

Take it up with the Leinster council, which is made up by the rest of Leinster

Nor do Dublin supporters object to other counties getting their houses in order or them being given a leg up in order to do so

The plans to revitalise GAA in Dublin in the 2000s were mainly about participation

Which is a very good thing

The more participation, the healthier all levels of the GAA become

[6th sam]

Now if you wanted to keep a regular programme of club championship games over a number of months - and keep the inter-county championships where they need to be in the calendar - finishing in September - ie. not completely separate the club and county seasons - this is probably how you'd do it

You provide seven designated club championship matchdays each for hurling and football from April to October - you stop all inter-county action on these matchdays and you introduce a rule centrally that county boards have to hold club championship action on these matchdays

Seven designated matchdays is ample time to finish a club hurling or football championship by October 17th, even if your county team reaches an All-Ireland final

All non-round robin games bar the All-Ireland finals go to extra-time and penalties if necessary

2021

Jan 31 NFL 1
Feb 7 NFL 2/NHL 1
Feb 14 NFL 3/NHL 2
Feb 21 NHL 3
Feb 28 NFL 4
Mar 7 NFL 5/NHL 4
Mar 14 NFL 6/NHL 5
Mar 21 NFL 7/NHL 6
Mar 28 NHL 7
Apr 4 NFL FINAL
Apr 11 NHL FINAL
Apr 18 Club Football Matchday 1
Apr 25 Club Hurling Matchday 1
May 2 Club Football Matchday 2
May 9 Club Hurling Matchday 2
May 16 Football Provincial Prelims
May 23 Hurling Provincial 1/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
May 30 Hurling Provincial 2/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
Jun 6 Club Football Matchday 3
Jun 9 (Midweek) Club Hurling Matchday 3
Jun 13 Club Football Matchday 4
Jun 20 Hurling Provincial 3/Football Provincial Semi-Finals/Football Qualifiers 1
Jun 27 Hurling Provincial 4/Football Provincial Semi-Finals
Jul 4 Hurling Provincial 5
Jul 11 Football Provincial Finals/Football Qualifiers 2
Jul 18 Hurling Provincial Finals/Football Provincial Finals/ Football Qualifiers 3
Jul 25 Club Hurling Matchday 4
Jul 28 (Midweek) Club Football Matchday 5
August 1 Club Hurling Matchday 5
August 8 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals /Football Qualifiers 4
August 15 All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals
August 22 All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
August 29 All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals
September 5 All-Ireland Hurling Final (replay September 18)
September 12 All-Ireland Football Final (replay September 19)
September 26 Club Hurling Matchday 6
October 3 Club Football Matchday 6
October 10 Club Hurling Matchday 7
October 17 Club Football Matchday 7
October 24 Provincial Club Prelims
October 31 Provincial Club Q/F or S/F
November 7 Provincial Club Q/F OR S/F
November 14 Provincial Club Finals or S/F
November 21 Provincial Club Finals
December 5 All-Ireland Club Semi-Finals
December 19 All-Ireland Club Finals

Is this a serious post?
Have u any knowledge of the demands on county footballers and managers? Do you honestly think it is going to work by disrupting an AI campaign with club fixtures. The whole thrust of the split season is to protect players who currently are expected to endure a year of misery with little chance of success. It may seem OK for Dublin players who are heavily rewarded by the system and their multiple perks .

The narrative shifts yet again

First it was "we want games", "we want certainty"

Now it seems that's not the case at all

It's mad, people are saying the county managers have too much power - now they don't have enough power?

Players manage to play for different teams in other sports just fine - heard of international windows in soocer? Which involve far more travel than lining out for your club a few times during the summer

As regards "protecting players", let's take a successful county player in Ulster whose county ends up in the prelim of the Ulster championship, let's say they go all the way to the All-Ireland

Under the above plan he'll have matches on
April 18th (club)
May 2nd (club)
May 16th (county)
May 30 (county)
June 6th (club)
June 13th (club)
June 27th (county)
July 11th or 18th (county)
July 28th (club)
August 15th (county)
August 29th (county)
September 12th (county)

Let's say his club reaches the All-Ireland club final
He might be out again on October 3rd
Then October 17th
November 1st
November 8th
November 22nd
December 5th
December 19th

It sounds pretty reasonable to me

Yet it seems no plan other than the hare brained idea to shoehorn the most important competitions the GAA has into spring and early summer is good enough for some

Bizarre stuff

the system you propose means that a Tyrone player getting to an All Ireland final is released for a couple of club championship games in the summer, and then he risks injury by going into a different environment with variable injury risks. He and his club mates just have to "suck it up". This is an amateur sport ( some counties more amateur than others tbf) . This might make sense to a Dublin or Kerry player who regulArly gets to Croke park, as a schoolteacher or gets a career leg up or other perks through his Intercounty involvement , but it doesn't make sense for 90%+ of county players.
All this for an elongated AI series
There must be a more level playing field to ensure club and county thrive and this season has shown they can thrive in a split season

[6th sam]

AI is an easily marketable product regardless of the time of year.

April to June is perhaps the worst possible time to market All-Ireland championships

The soccer season is coming to an end, Champions League, Premier League etc., Heineken Cup in rugby,

And World Cups and Euros every second year, which obliterate everything else

It's a very crowded time of year

I remember in '94, Dublin played Kildare, a fixture which had drawn over 60k the previous two years, it was on the same day as Ireland v Italy, it drew 22k, the replay drew around the same

Tradition dies hard

The October NBA finals, with the Lakers and LeBron, were the lowest rated in many years this year

The November US Masters didn't work at all in my view

There's even something off about August All-Irelands, never mind June

September is the time for All-Irelands, October would be better than August

It's the worst time to market?? There have been championship games for years in May/June, they'd be even easier to market if there are games week on week. Again this year showed the benefit of that. For the county player it's a case of enjoy sole focus on the county game, then back to help your local mates, when county season on , fringe club players get a chance to fight for their place when full deck are back. What's not to like?

May/June games are early season games, they're at the start of the summer

Remember Armagh v Down 2011? It clashed with the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United

You don't market against that, you simply get crushed

Even Derry v Down 1994 lost a lot of exposure because it was on the same day as Germany v Ireland when Ireland won 2-0

What you're now proposing is that early season championship games take place in March or early April

And that's an even harder sell because the weather is not as good and key late season soccer matches also tend to take place on those Sundays

It's also better for the clubs to have their players play when they're fresh - before the inter-county championship - as well as giving club players a genuine chance to stake a place for the county team

Look at Ballymun this year - what was the difference? Freshness of key players - McCarthy, Small, Rock, McMahon, who in previous seasons have not performed in the Dublin championship because they were jaded after the county season

😂😂 I didn't even know Ireland played Germany that day. perhaps the US masters was on the same day for all I know. I seem to remember Derry's  Celtic Park was a full house anyway 😂. Perhaps we wouldn't have filled Croke Park that day but Tbf even the mighty Dubs can't even half fill Croke park anymore despite the current exposure ( and advantages) they enjoy, and which you propose to continue.
Since you brought up Down, here's a stat for you to consider, since Down beat Dublin in the 1994 AI final, Down have enjoyed home venue for Championship including qualifiers on , I'm guessing , 15 occasions , whilst the Dubs have never had a championship game in their home venue, instead they've had to navigate their way to the national stadium on , I'm guessing over 200  Occasions . I respect Dublin players and management for what they e achieved, but they'll never get the credit they deserve because of the advantages they enjoy under their current system. NFL/NBA have the draft system and even FIFA have financial restrictions, To try to get as level a playing field as possible, yet in the GAA we continue to give Dublin a leg up , whilst lowering the bar at the same time. You couldn't make it up🤦🏻‍♂️

No Dublin supporter objects to Dublin being taken out of Croke Park, or to away championship venues - Dublin supporters would only love that - going on the road to support your team is what it's all about

Take it up with the Leinster council, which is made up by the rest of Leinster

Nor do Dublin supporters object to other counties getting their houses in order or them being given a leg up in order to do so

The plans to revitalise GAA in Dublin in the 2000s were mainly about participation

Which is a very good thing

The more participation, the healthier all levels of the GAA become

Totally agree with all the above Dublin are merely availing of the unfair advantages the GAA promotes

[sid waddell]

And as a footnote, if you haven't worked out that my reference to the warmer months was in reference to national leagues being played in jan-feb, and the new championship structure kicking off March-April, well then, once again you are being obtuse.

To call March a "warmer month" was a pretty dumb reference, move on

https://www.met.ie/climate/available-data/monthly-data

[sid waddell]

Now if you wanted to keep a regular programme of club championship games over a number of months - and keep the inter-county championships where they need to be in the calendar - finishing in September - ie. not completely separate the club and county seasons - this is probably how you'd do it

You provide seven designated club championship matchdays each for hurling and football from April to October - you stop all inter-county action on these matchdays and you introduce a rule centrally that county boards have to hold club championship action on these matchdays

Seven designated matchdays is ample time to finish a club hurling or football championship by October 17th, even if your county team reaches an All-Ireland final

All non-round robin games bar the All-Ireland finals go to extra-time and penalties if necessary

2021

Jan 31 NFL 1
Feb 7 NFL 2/NHL 1
Feb 14 NFL 3/NHL 2
Feb 21 NHL 3
Feb 28 NFL 4
Mar 7 NFL 5/NHL 4
Mar 14 NFL 6/NHL 5
Mar 21 NFL 7/NHL 6
Mar 28 NHL 7
Apr 4 NFL FINAL
Apr 11 NHL FINAL
Apr 18 Club Football Matchday 1
Apr 25 Club Hurling Matchday 1
May 2 Club Football Matchday 2
May 9 Club Hurling Matchday 2
May 16 Football Provincial Prelims
May 23 Hurling Provincial 1/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
May 30 Hurling Provincial 2/Football Provincial Quarter-Finals
Jun 6 Club Football Matchday 3
Jun 9 (Midweek) Club Hurling Matchday 3
Jun 13 Club Football Matchday 4
Jun 20 Hurling Provincial 3/Football Provincial Semi-Finals/Football Qualifiers 1
Jun 27 Hurling Provincial 4/Football Provincial Semi-Finals
Jul 4 Hurling Provincial 5
Jul 11 Football Provincial Finals/Football Qualifiers 2
Jul 18 Hurling Provincial Finals/Football Provincial Finals/ Football Qualifiers 3
Jul 25 Club Hurling Matchday 4
Jul 28 (Midweek) Club Football Matchday 5
August 1 Club Hurling Matchday 5
August 8 All-Ireland Hurling Quarter-Finals /Football Qualifiers 4
August 15 All-Ireland Football Quarter-Finals
August 22 All-Ireland Hurling Semi-Finals
August 29 All-Ireland Football Semi-Finals
September 5 All-Ireland Hurling Final (replay September 18)
September 12 All-Ireland Football Final (replay September 19)
September 26 Club Hurling Matchday 6
October 3 Club Football Matchday 6
October 10 Club Hurling Matchday 7
October 17 Club Football Matchday 7
October 24 Provincial Club Prelims
October 31 Provincial Club Q/F or S/F
November 7 Provincial Club Q/F OR S/F
November 14 Provincial Club Finals or S/F
November 21 Provincial Club Finals
December 5 All-Ireland Club Semi-Finals
December 19 All-Ireland Club Finals

Is this a serious post?
Have u any knowledge of the demands on county footballers and managers? Do you honestly think it is going to work by disrupting an AI campaign with club fixtures. The whole thrust of the split season is to protect players who currently are expected to endure a year of misery with little chance of success. It may seem OK for Dublin players who are heavily rewarded by the system and their multiple perks .

The narrative shifts yet again

First it was "we want games", "we want certainty"

Now it seems that's not the case at all

It's mad, people are saying the county managers have too much power - now they don't have enough power?

Players manage to play for different teams in other sports just fine - heard of international windows in soocer? Which involve far more travel than lining out for your club a few times during the summer

As regards "protecting players", let's take a successful county player in Ulster whose county ends up in the prelim of the Ulster championship, let's say they go all the way to the All-Ireland

Under the above plan he'll have matches on
April 18th (club)
May 2nd (club)
May 16th (county)
May 30 (county)
June 6th (club)
June 13th (club)
June 27th (county)
July 11th or 18th (county)
July 28th (club)
August 15th (county)
August 29th (county)
September 12th (county)

Let's say his club reaches the All-Ireland club final
He might be out again on October 3rd
Then October 17th
November 1st
November 8th
November 22nd
December 5th
December 19th

It sounds pretty reasonable to me

Yet it seems no plan other than the hare brained idea to shoehorn the most important competitions the GAA has into spring and early summer is good enough for some

Bizarre stuff

the system you propose means that a Tyrone player getting to an All Ireland final is released for a couple of club championship games in the summer, and then he risks injury by going into a different environment with variable injury risks. He and his club mates just have to "suck it up". This is an amateur sport ( some counties more amateur than others tbf) . This might make sense to a Dublin or Kerry player who regulArly gets to Croke park, as a schoolteacher or gets a career leg up or other perks through his Intercounty involvement , but it doesn't make sense for 90%+ of county players.
All this for an elongated AI series
There must be a more level playing field to ensure club and county thrive and this season has shown they can thrive in a split season

I have no idea what your reference to Dublin or Kerry players here is about - under the above plan players in all county teams would play club championship on the same designated dates

Have a look at the fixture schedule I set out

It's very reasonable - players want to play, don't they?

It sounds like you're proposing to wrap players in cotton wool for the county team

I thought this was what we didn't want?

[sid waddell]

AI is an easily marketable product regardless of the time of year.

April to June is perhaps the worst possible time to market All-Ireland championships

The soccer season is coming to an end, Champions League, Premier League etc., Heineken Cup in rugby,

And World Cups and Euros every second year, which obliterate everything else

It's a very crowded time of year

I remember in '94, Dublin played Kildare, a fixture which had drawn over 60k the previous two years, it was on the same day as Ireland v Italy, it drew 22k, the replay drew around the same

Tradition dies hard

The October NBA finals, with the Lakers and LeBron, were the lowest rated in many years this year

The November US Masters didn't work at all in my view

There's even something off about August All-Irelands, never mind June

September is the time for All-Irelands, October would be better than August

It's the worst time to market?? There have been championship games for years in May/June, they'd be even easier to market if there are games week on week. Again this year showed the benefit of that. For the county player it's a case of enjoy sole focus on the county game, then back to help your local mates, when county season on , fringe club players get a chance to fight for their place when full deck are back. What's not to like?

May/June games are early season games, they're at the start of the summer

Remember Armagh v Down 2011? It clashed with the Champions League final between Barcelona and Manchester United

You don't market against that, you simply get crushed

Even Derry v Down 1994 lost a lot of exposure because it was on the same day as Germany v Ireland when Ireland won 2-0

What you're now proposing is that early season championship games take place in March or early April

And that's an even harder sell because the weather is not as good and key late season soccer matches also tend to take place on those Sundays

It's also better for the clubs to have their players play when they're fresh - before the inter-county championship - as well as giving club players a genuine chance to stake a place for the county team

Look at Ballymun this year - what was the difference? Freshness of key players - McCarthy, Small, Rock, McMahon, who in previous seasons have not performed in the Dublin championship because they were jaded after the county season

😂😂 I didn't even know Ireland played Germany that day. perhaps the US masters was on the same day for all I know. I seem to remember Derry's  Celtic Park was a full house anyway 😂. Perhaps we wouldn't have filled Croke Park that day but Tbf even the mighty Dubs can't even half fill Croke park anymore despite the current exposure ( and advantages) they enjoy, and which you propose to continue.
Since you brought up Down, here's a stat for you to consider, since Down beat Dublin in the 1994 AI final, Down have enjoyed home venue for Championship including qualifiers on , I'm guessing , 15 occasions , whilst the Dubs have never had a championship game in their home venue, instead they've had to navigate their way to the national stadium on , I'm guessing over 200  Occasions . I respect Dublin players and management for what they e achieved, but they'll never get the credit they deserve because of the advantages they enjoy under their current system. NFL/NBA have the draft system and even FIFA have financial restrictions, To try to get as level a playing field as possible, yet in the GAA we continue to give Dublin a leg up , whilst lowering the bar at the same time. You couldn't make it up🤦🏻‍♂️

No Dublin supporter objects to Dublin being taken out of Croke Park, or to away championship venues - Dublin supporters would only love that - going on the road to support your team is what it's all about

Take it up with the Leinster council, which is made up by the rest of Leinster

Nor do Dublin supporters object to other counties getting their houses in order or them being given a leg up in order to do so

The plans to revitalise GAA in Dublin in the 2000s were mainly about participation

Which is a very good thing

The more participation, the healthier all levels of the GAA become

Totally agree with all the above Dublin are merely availing of the unfair advantages the GAA promotes

Representative sport is inherently unfair, we've been over this a million times

The only way to solve that is that is to reorganise the county system into franchises based on equitable populations

But I don't think anybody wants that

Because, as you yourself referenced earlier, identity is king - a GAA version of the Ospreys would not work