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Declan Bonner new Erne Gaels manager.
Probably the most high profile club manager in Fermanagh in my memory

It's a wonder he'd work with a team in the 6 counties after what was said in the Ill fated Ulster campaign for Na Rossa

Well said

For me its the gap in the attacking coaching is the problem, not the defensive system.

AI Finalists in Junior and Intermediate

    Junior    Intermediate
Cavan    3    0
Mayo    5    4
Meath    2    2
Cork    3    3
Kerry    15    9
Tyrone    6    5
Galway    3    5
UK    2    0
Kildare    1    0
Ros    1    2
W'meath    1    0
Sligo    1    0
Wexford    1    0
Armagh    0    1
Derry    0    2
Mon    0    3
Antrim    0    1
Ferm    0    1
Dublin    0    1
Donegal    0    1

Anyone not listed has never appeared in an AI final in either grade. The numbers speak for themselves on where the issue is.

Kerry clearly the outlier here, either Kerry is made go to a 12-16 team senior championship or the remaining counties go to 8 the same as Kerry, and naturally the knock on effect to intermediate and junior. The stats don't lie.

I've made the assertion previously, but really, what is the point of the All Ireland Intermediate and Junior competitions? They both just operate on skewed levels across counties and provinces. It's near impossible to streamline them in terms of club eligibility. The senior competition is authentic and balanced for obvious reasons but the other two just aren't fit for purpose.

100%. Tg4 had a graphic up yesterday showing the Listowel and Arva's games to dates...some amount of hammerings, especially in Munster / Ulster. A complete waste of time unless you're a good Div 1 team or from Kerry

Jez wobbler, take a look at how many clubs from Kerry have made the junior and intermediate finals never mind winning it, thats because of how their championship is structured. 8 senior teams in their senior championship, making the knock on effect of pushing strong teams down to intermediate and junior levels, meanwhile most counties have 16 senior teams making their lower grades weaker. Feck its not hard to figure out man.

The one thing I'll say about those Armagh wans, for a team that has won absolutely feck all, they have some confidence, especially when when you consider they have a manager who has won feck all at club nor county level. I mean, if ever a team had a chance of winning an Ulster last yr, it was Armagh. Played a Derry team that was hit by as a bad a blow that any team could have leading into that final-loosing their manager in the most high profile way possible - Derry were there for the taking -  but Armagh still couldn't win the championship. 

[Armagh, Derry, Monaghan, Tyrone and possibly Donegal are all evenly matched and can beat each other in any game.]

Nothing between the 2 teams last night, Tyrone kicked some bad wides and Armagh dropping one into the net last kick of the game. Decent game for Jan and McKenna cup, some good positives for both teams. Armagh need a strong year this year and it's getting that wee bit of luck at vital times in big games. Armagh, Derry, Monaghan, Tyrone and possibly Donegal are all evenly matched and can beat each other in any game. For me the thing that's missing for Armagh is the marquee forward that most of the top teams have, the real game changer who'll get you a score outta nothing. Oisin O'Neill back and Niall Grimley are big positives, the young lad from Portydown Conaty (prob spelt that wrong) with his pace could be an impact off the bench.

Go on, tell me where you drew that from analysis from? Derry have won the past two Ulsters, beaten all those teams consistently in the championship the past two seasons, being in two All Ireland semifinals finals. I can see why you had Armagh/tyrone/Donegal and Monaghan all lumped together, but how you put Derry into that dumbs down your post.

I main point still stands, what have the other clubs been doing that Cross have dominated, particularly from 96 onward. I fully accepted that there were a number of Cross teams in that period that will stand the test of time. However the there has been a period now where Cross have won and aren't close to being a threat in Ulster.
Someone reference my own county without realising they were making my point. Dungiven, Bellaghy, Ballinderry, Loup, Slaugtneil and now Glen all have won the Ulster club.  Our club championship is a graveyard for any club with ambitions of dominating for years such a Cross. The mentality of club football in Derry is fierce. Please don't tell me if Cross were in Derry they would be winning county titles year in and out. Definitely not.

You're complaining about Armagh clubs rolling over when the exact same is now happening in Derry? First Ballinderry, then Slaughtneil and now Glen. Fair enough there was greater competition back in the early/mid 00s but I know enough about Derry football to know it's a shadow of its former self. Magherafelt 5/1?

Your not getting it. Cross dominant in Armagh for how long. Meanwhile in the same period in Derry six clubs have won Ulster, four in AI Ireland finals, with two additional clubs making the county title breakthrough.
Do you see it.

Oh I get what you're saying, regardless of whether Cross are winning Ulsters/AIs or not, Armagh clubs remain shite. In a 12 year period 04-15 Cross won 8 Ulster titles, were the Derry/rest of Ulster clubs rolling over as well? 

glad you agree that Armagh clubs are shite. 

Who is leading Derry U20s this year? See Martin Boyle has stepped down and away to Loughmacrory.

I main point still stands, what have the other clubs been doing that Cross have dominated, particularly from 96 onward. I fully accepted that there were a number of Cross teams in that period that will stand the test of time. However the there has been a period now where Cross have won and aren't close to being a threat in Ulster.
Someone reference my own county without realising they were making my point. Dungiven, Bellaghy, Ballinderry, Loup, Slaugtneil and now Glen all have won the Ulster club.  Our club championship is a graveyard for any club with ambitions of dominating for years such a Cross. The mentality of club football in Derry is fierce. Please don't tell me if Cross were in Derry they would be winning county titles year in and out. Definitely not.

You're complaining about Armagh clubs rolling over when the exact same is now happening in Derry? First Ballinderry, then Slaughtneil and now Glen. Fair enough there was greater competition back in the early/mid 00s but I know enough about Derry football to know it's a shadow of its former self. Magherafelt 5/1?

Your not getting it. Cross dominant in Armagh for how long. Meanwhile in the same period in Derry six clubs have won Ulster, four in AI Ireland finals, with two additional clubs making the county title breakthrough.
Do you see it.

I main point still stands, what have the other clubs been doing that Cross have dominated, particularly from 96 onward. I fully accepted that there were a number of Cross teams in that period that will stand the test of time. However the there has been a period now where Cross have won and aren't close to being a threat in Ulster.
Someone reference my own county without realising they were making my point. Dungiven, Bellaghy, Ballinderry, Loup, Slaugtneil and now Glen all have won the Ulster club.  Our club championship is a graveyard for any club with ambitions of dominating for years such a Cross. The mentality of club football in Derry is fierce. Please don't tell me if Cross were in Derry they would be winning county titles year in and out. Definitely not.

As Aaron Kernan picks up his 18th senior championship medal, it further confirms how crap the senior clubs in Armagh are that they annually role over. What is it Cross are doing the rest of you are not apart from living rent free in your heads.

Actually I don't think its a simple as that

yes the two losers go down. Both games will be tight.

Pace acccounts for it I think.

Thank God there is someone with a half a football brain who can see the difference in a top club forward verses a top county player, strength was another obvious difference. I would argue in Deets defence that he had a better footballing brain.

Got too many bad memories rewatched Derry v Donegal 2006 other nite and Derry v Monaghan 2007, last night. Christ we were poor, the players they had then, probably better than now, and we only got a league title to show for it. Tactics was non-existant, with always 5/6 different players always injured each year. What Mickey Harte had done with that team if he been over it at thd time. !!

These players we had at the time were so good they couldn't put back to two wins together in the ulster championship over how many years.  Yes I agree a highly talented bunch      The kicker line was, and I nearly pissed myself laughing when you when you came with the 'probably better then now'       feck me how daft can you you be. A group of players who couldn't put one 'back to back win' in Ulster verses a team double Ulster winning team who missed qualifying for the All Ireland final this year by hair.      Have you tried stand up comedy yet?

Reign it in. Wildweasel is saying just what youve said. The team were underachievers. Youd be mad to question the talent of the individuals playing then. Those teams of the mid-00s boasted 4 all-star winners Paddy Bradley, SM Lockhart, Kevin McCloy and big Enda Muldoon. Then you still have skinner, Mark Lynch, Deets, Gerard O'kane. I could go on. If they were handled as well as this current squad that team wouldve lifted Sam.

You now have said that a team that couldn't put two games back to back in Ulster from 2003-2011 would have lifted Sam. deluded, and furthermore to add Deets into that group of players you named is dead pan not funny. Top club player yes, county, just a run of the mill decent player at best.