The Palestine thread

[whitey]

GHD....I appreciate that we have been able to conduct a civil dialogue and challenge each others views in an adult manner.

This whole tragedy is spinning out of control and unfortunately the civilians are caught in the middle

The advent of social media is bringing the horror of what is unfolding into everyones lives in a way that would have been unimaginable a decade ago

All our opinions are formed by our own life experiences.....yours have obviously been quite different to mine. (I have close family members who serve in the US Military...my nephew is currently deployed in Afghanistan. I was also at the Boston Marathon last year, and experienced first hand what happens when an ideology morphs and gets warped to become the antithesis of what is at its core.)

Lets hope that the horror that has been unfolding will be the tipping point that leads to some sort of a permanent solution.  There is wrongdoing on BOTH sides and both sides will HAVE to make accommodations to bring this to a conclusion

Would love to hear your experience Whitey, some very interesting conspiracy theories RE Boston Bomb backed up with some shocking CCTV evidence. I take them all with a pinch of Salt, however there's something now right about the two brothers, sneaky feeling they were set up in some way.

I don't buy into the conspiracy that the bombing was "staged" as some people would have you believe. What does raise my antenna is the incident in Florida a few weeks later when the FBI agents and MA state trooper were questioning an acquaintance of the bombers about an I solved double murder in Boston. Whatever went down, they ended up shooting the guy dead in the struggle that ensued. How 3 cops couldn't subdue one unarmed guy is highly suspect. (The older brother was also a suspect in that double murder).

Most of the terror convictions since 9/11 have been sting operations where undercover law enformement engage "sympathisers" and then set them up with dummy explosives or some such weapon. Would I be shocked if I found out that they had engaged the older brother and were monitoring him-absolutely not.

I also find it amazing that the Russian intelligence tipped the FBI off about him having attended a training camp but that no one followed up

That entire family are/were a bunch of fvckin scumbags. They came under false pretenses and were given asylum. Then they had everything handed to them at taxpayers expense, while they were busy shoplifting, drug dealing and passing counterfeit currency. The older brother then somehow gotarried to a girl from a wealthy family, had her convert to Islam, then sent her out to work 80 hours a week while he sat on his arse at home

Whitey,
    how many of these jihadi's involved in the 9/11 attacks, Boston or whatever were Palestinian, Afghani or even Iraqi?

none. I dont understand your question and how it realtes to what were specifically discussing here.

(I have already stated on here that I was dead set against the war in Iraq. The 9/11 hijackers were overwhelmingly Saudi. George Bush has a lot of blood on his hands)

[Jeepers Creepers]

Social media isn't preventing the death of women & children.

[mc_grens]

http://youtu.be/4z4TvDbffI0

Putting aside all the politics and bullshit surrounding this for a moment. There can be no possible justification for what's in this Jon snow report.

None.

[Arthur_Friend]

This is well worth a watch if you have the time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0gEzPG82pc

[Bingo]

There is a video that I unfortunately saw on facebook. generally I'd try and avoid these. Was of a young Palestinian boy in a room. There is a small girl, younger than the boy, with a stick from Isreal (or at least that's what the video says).

She is been encouraged to hit and slap the young lad by her family. He is obviously very distressed but if he tries to protect himself, some of the older ones will strike out. Its about 90 secs long but is very hard to watch.

Those kids, can't be more than 4 and 6 (much the same age as my own kids), should be playing together and living life.

What a f**king world we are in. That video just knocked me this morning.

[seafoid]

Israeli spokesman trying to pin the blame for the school shelling on Hamas

http://www.channel4.com/news/israel-threatens-to-escalate-gaza-offensive-hamas-video

No wonder the Yanks are dropping away like flies from Israel

And here's a special for Mike Sheehy

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2703531/MAX-HASTINGS-Ive-loved-Israel-brutality-breaks-heart.html

[seafoid]

Social media isn't preventing the death of women & children.

The only thing that will stop Israel is the application of power. Social media is breaking their grip on the Us traditional media narrative. When the people dump them the politicians will follow.

[Moortown Spuds]

How did Ireland not back the Human Rights Council Vote???

Ambassador Patricia O'Brien
Permanent Representative to the United Nations and other International Organisations at Geneva
Tel. +41 (0)22 919 19 56

[Sidney]

Social media isn't preventing the death of women & children.

My attitude to social media is twofold.

Social media, and particularly Facebook, by its very nature is almost exclusively vanity-driven, individualistic fluff. It might in theory be able to spread awareness of something but it means people are rarely actually bothered enough to really protest about a cause they can simply "like" on social media. Also people who become aware of a political cause via Facebook links will not likely have very coherent opinions on anything political. The more "intelligent" forms of social media such as comment sections on newspapers, blogs and political forums might provoke some debate but are also great for stifling debate, and obviously Israel is expert at this in all forms of media.

Social media, in reality, unfortunately doesn't amount to much more than a vent that takes the air out of real political protest, especially amongst the younger people that tend to use it. Basically the internet has made people lazy in terms of actually really doing anything about matters of real importance, and while information is much more freely available than it used to be which obviously is a good thing, the internet by its nature is too dispersed for real political protest to gain any kind of effective critical mass through it, certainly in western countries. What the internet is great at is spreading lazy, unfocussed and incoherent political anger which does not result in real protest, and that's common across a range of issues.

The oppression of Gaza is a seemingly perpetual cycle which shows no sign of ending in the foreseeable future,  Some people might say that social media is spreading awareness of the reality of the barbaric nature of the Israeli regime like never before, and perhaps that's true to an extent, but I doubt it'll amount to an increase in real protest. Most young people in the West, in Europe at any rate and certainly in Ireland, have a vague notion that the Palestinians are oppressed, think about it briefly, aren't that bothered about it and go back to leading the rest of their lives. How many of those who "like" pages about supporting the people of Gaza will actually protest? I will and have done, but very few others will. That's just the reality of it, as politicians love to say.

[seafoid]

Social media isn't preventing the death of women & children.

My attitude to social media is twofold.

Social media, and particularly Facebook, by its very nature is almost exclusively vanity-driven, individualistic fluff. It might in theory be able to spread awareness of something but it means people are rarely actually bothered enough to really protest about a cause they can simply "like" on social media. Also people who become aware of a political cause via Facebook links will not likely have very coherent opinions on anything political. The more "intelligent" forms of social media such as comment sections on newspapers, blogs and political forums might provoke some debate but are also great for stifling debate, and obviously Israel is expert at this in all forms of media.

Social media, in reality, unfortunately doesn't amount to much more than a vent that takes the air out of real political protest, especially amongst the younger people that tend to use it. Basically the internet has made people lazy in terms of actually really doing anything about matters of real importance, and while information is much more freely available than it used to be which obviously is a good thing, the internet by its nature is too dispersed for real political protest to gain any kind of effective critical mass through it, certainly in western countries. What the internet is great at is spreading lazy, unfocussed and incoherent political anger which does not result in real protest, and that's common across a range of issues.

The oppression of Gaza is a seemingly perpetual cycle which shows no sign of ending in the foreseeable future,  Some people might say that social media is spreading awareness of the reality of the barbaric nature of the Israeli regime like never before, and perhaps that's true to an extent, but I doubt it'll amount to an increase in real protest. Most young people in the West, in Europe at any rate and certainly in Ireland, have a vague notion that the Palestinians are oppressed, think about it briefly, aren't that bothered about it and go back to leading the rest of their lives. How many of those who "like" pages about supporting the people of Gaza will actually protest? I will and have done, but very few others will. That's just the reality of it, as politicians love to say.

Fair enough Sidney but Israel is a special case. It's dependent on rock solid US political support so it needs to develop loyalty amongst Americans every generation. And as long as Israeli supporters had serious influence in the main media companies they could control what the networks and major newspapers produced.

Now the support is tailing off among people under 30, mostly because they don't bother with traditional media and because the social media field is much more balanced - there is less bias towards Israel because there aren't enough individual heads to control the dialogue which is not mediated in the same way that media editors control what appears and what doesn't. Zionism is a minority thing- most people have no interest in a Jewish Sparta.   Social media takes the money out of the debate.

[muppet]

https://www.facebook.com/irish4israel

[Sidney]

I'm not saying people shouldn't try to spread awareness of what's happening on social media, just that unfortunately I doubt it'll have any real effect.

I've only just returned to Ireland after five weeks in Australia so I don't know what the turn out at protests here has been like, but having participated in the Sydney march I didn't think the crowd was huge for a city of four million people.

Social media is in my view inherently anti-political in that it promotes a culture of the self that works against the type of collective values that are needed for political protest to succeed.

[seafoid]

I'm not saying people shouldn't try to spread awareness of what's happening on social media, just that unfortunately I doubt it'll have any real effect.

I've only just returned to Ireland after five weeks in Australia so I don't know what the turn out at protests here has been like, but having participated in the Sydney march I didn't think the crowd was huge for a city of four million people.

Social media is in my view inherently anti-political in that it promotes a culture of the self that works against the type of collective values that are needed for political protest to succeed.

It depends whether or not it can be harnessed in a bigger coalition. In the States Democrats, women and young people are turning away from Israel.

[Sidney]

It depends whether or not it can be harnessed in a bigger coalition. In the States Democrats, women and young people are turning away from Israel.

I hear about this kind of thing, but I believe to be not much more than pissing in the wind. Despite the current difficulties of traditional media, it still rules the roost in terms of what "acceptable" public opinion is, and it's clear to me that having a view that is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause is still not acceptable in the US mainstream, because traditional media is still firmly and blindly pro-Israel. You only have to look at what happened to that NBA player last week to see that any type of view that is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause is taboo in the US. Contrast that to Bill Maher's utterly sickening comments - he'll remain a pillar of US media and they'll probably strengthen his career, if anything.

Penetrating the centres of power is the only thing that matters, and I don't see how social media will ever do that. Israel has the centres of power in the US and the wider Western world tied around around its little finger, and that's why it will be able to get away with what it wants for as long as it wants.

[J OGorman]

It depends whether or not it can be harnessed in a bigger coalition. In the States Democrats, women and young people are turning away from Israel.

I hear about this kind of thing, but I believe to be not much more than pissing in the wind. Despite the current difficulties of traditional media, it still rules the roost in terms of what "acceptable" public opinion is, and it's clear to me that having a view that is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause is still not acceptable in the US mainstream, because traditional media is still firmly and blindly pro-Israel. You only have to look at what happened to that NBA player last week to see that any type of view that is sympathetic to the Palestinian cause is taboo in the US. Contrast that to Bill Maher's utterly sickening comments - he'll remain a pillar of US media and they'll probably strengthen his career, if anything.

Penetrating the centres of power is the only thing that matters, and I don't see how social media will ever do that. Israel has the centres of power in the US and the wider Western world tied around around its little finger, and that's why it will be able to get away with what it wants for as long as it wants.

I disagree. in this case, there is a huge swell of support for Palestine, and its growing. You would have a bias towards the US, but with social media spreading the truth, younger americans (young folk like to be rebellious) are waking up to these dispicable war crimes. You only have to tune into the bbc, c4, rte, check online with the bbc and even in the last few days, there is much more coverage of deaths of the civilians. Boycotting certain brands etc, being hit where it hurts most, in their pockets. Power to the people