Kerry v Mayo - Super 8s Round 1

Started by Mayo4Sam14, July 07, 2019, 10:23:19 PM

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Lar Naparka

Quote from: moysider on July 17, 2019, 01:09:22 AM
Anybody kicking the ball out bar the goalkeeper is a no-no for a couple of reasons.

1. Most outfield players cannot kick the ball from the ground at all. Keepers are called up the field to kick 45s etc. for a reason. They are the only ones that can strike a dead ball. On the Mayo team Cillian struggles to kick a 45 sometimes and I doubt any of our backs would even go close to getting that far. Are we suggesting O Connor is brought back to take kick-outs?

2. If an outfield player takes kickouts, it frees up an opposition forward to increase the press-up or get deeper and contest breaks. It's not going to work.

Clarke can kick the ball long but while the trajectory might not be torpedo he can hoof it. He was trying to pick out targets within his range the last day and I've no doubt that was what he was instructed to do. No way a goalkeeper takes it on himself to decide his kick out strategy.

We had a Kerry runner on the field a lot the last day. I didn't see anybody from Mayo set-up get to Clarke to advise him to do anything different and for God's sake. stop rushing up to take quick kick-outs when we were under the cosh and beaten up a stick. I stand over the arms folded remark I made earlier.  You have to manage the game in front of you.

You'd have to go back almost 50 years for somebody other than goalie to kick the ball out - unless the keeper had an injury. Now you replace the keeper. Maybe Jack Cosgrave from Galway did it but that is early 70s and the game was different. You'd be riddled if you did that now.
Well put moy, I have no problem with that.
I don't think I ever suggested that getting somebody other than the goalkeeper to kick the ball out should be commonplace again. But in a case of horses for courses, there may be times when it would be the lesser of two evils.
David Clarke or Robbie Hennelly?

You've two experienced men there, both have their good points as well as their bad ones. Robbie is certainly the better place kicker but has a suspect temperament. No personal fault of his but he did have a few nightmare experiences and his confidence can be a bit iffy.  Clarkie is the better all-rounder but gets a lot of stick for his restarts. At best, a goalie can only be 50% responsible if his place kicks go astray. If there nobody able or willing to fight for possession then not even Stephen Cluxton could get it right 100% of the time. As you've noticed, there was no input from the sideline and Clarke had to soldier on to the end kicking the ball out and knowing, no matter what he did, that it would be coming back in again. I think it would be taking the nuclear option if Clarke was to be dropped because of his perceived limitations with placed balls when he had a five star performance in every other way.
I'd be looking at the sideline for answers before I'd start laying blame for last Sunday's performance which is straying away from the point. Is there any reason why a goalie must always take kick outs?
I wouldn't dream of saying that we should revert to the times when men wore peaked caps and baggy shorts and the full backs toe poked every ball off the ground but there are times when a case could be made for somebody other than the keeper taking on the job.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

westbound

Quote from: Lar Naparka on July 17, 2019, 09:50:55 AM
Quote from: moysider on July 17, 2019, 01:09:22 AM
Anybody kicking the ball out bar the goalkeeper is a no-no for a couple of reasons.

1. Most outfield players cannot kick the ball from the ground at all. Keepers are called up the field to kick 45s etc. for a reason. They are the only ones that can strike a dead ball. On the Mayo team Cillian struggles to kick a 45 sometimes and I doubt any of our backs would even go close to getting that far. Are we suggesting O Connor is brought back to take kick-outs?

2. If an outfield player takes kickouts, it frees up an opposition forward to increase the press-up or get deeper and contest breaks. It's not going to work.

Clarke can kick the ball long but while the trajectory might not be torpedo he can hoof it. He was trying to pick out targets within his range the last day and I've no doubt that was what he was instructed to do. No way a goalkeeper takes it on himself to decide his kick out strategy.

We had a Kerry runner on the field a lot the last day. I didn't see anybody from Mayo set-up get to Clarke to advise him to do anything different and for God's sake. stop rushing up to take quick kick-outs when we were under the cosh and beaten up a stick. I stand over the arms folded remark I made earlier.  You have to manage the game in front of you.

You'd have to go back almost 50 years for somebody other than goalie to kick the ball out - unless the keeper had an injury. Now you replace the keeper. Maybe Jack Cosgrave from Galway did it but that is early 70s and the game was different. You'd be riddled if you did that now.
Well put moy, I have no problem with that.
I don't think I ever suggested that getting somebody other than the goalkeeper to kick the ball out should be commonplace again. But in a case of horses for courses, there may be times when it would be the lesser of two evils.
David Clarke or Robbie Hennelly?

You've two experienced men there, both have their good points as well as their bad ones. Robbie is certainly the better place kicker but has a suspect temperament. No personal fault of his but he did have a few nightmare experiences and his confidence can be a bit iffy.  Clarkie is the better all-rounder but gets a lot of stick for his restarts. At best, a goalie can only be 50% responsible if his place kicks go astray. If there nobody able or willing to fight for possession then not even Stephen Cluxton could get it right 100% of the time. As you've noticed, there was no input from the sideline and Clarke had to soldier on to the end kicking the ball out and knowing, no matter what he did, that it would be coming back in again. I think it would be taking the nuclear option if Clarke was to be dropped because of his perceived limitations with placed balls when he had a five star performance in every other way.
I'd be looking at the sideline for answers before I'd start laying blame for last Sunday's performance which is straying away from the point. Is there any reason why a goalie must always take kick outs?
I wouldn't dream of saying that we should revert to the times when men wore peaked caps and baggy shorts and the full backs toe poked every ball off the ground but there are times when a case could be made for somebody other than the keeper taking on the job.

Lar, there is no rule that says that the goalkeeper must always take the kick out (in fact I'm pretty sure the rule states that IF someone other than the goalkeeper is not taking the kickout, then the goalkeeper must stand inside the small square. - I haven't checked this rule so I may be wrong).

However, in this day and age kickouts are so important, that voluntarily giving the opposition an extra man to face your kick out would be a form of madness. For that reason, I don't think there is ever a case for somebody other than the keeper taking the kickouts. (apart from an injury to the keeper and all subs used up).

If your goalkeeper can't take the kickouts then he shouldn't be there.

P.s. this is a general point, I'm not talking about clarke specifically.

Farrandeelin

If only we had ways and means of creating one out of the two of them. Davert Clannelly. Or Robid Hennelarke.
Inaugural Football Championship Prediction Winner.

Drummer

Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark’s which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a "scooped" kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O'Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can't drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O'Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O'Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O'Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O'Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There's only going to be one winner when you're up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O'Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a "pinging" kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark's which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a "scooped" kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O'Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can't drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O'Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O'Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O'Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O'Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There's only going to be one winner when you're up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O'Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a "pinging" kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

Did you see the one where AOS kicked Spillane in the head?

A hanging kickout favours the better fielder who judges it best....not "attacker" or "defender".

Drummer

Quote from: magpie seanie on July 17, 2019, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark’s which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a “scooped” kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O’Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can’t drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O’Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O’Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O’Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O’Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There’s only going to be one winner when you’re up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O’Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a “pinging” kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

Did you see the one where AOS kicked Spillane in the head?

No I missed that.  What's your point?

A hanging kickout favours the better fielder who judges it best....not "attacker" or "defender".

Fair enough if it's a kickout into space that gives both players the chance to attack it.  That was not the case with Clarke's kickouts on Sunday.
Having said that Moran probably is a better fielder than O'Shea.  And he's certainly far better than Vaughan.



magpie seanie

Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 17, 2019, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark's which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a "scooped" kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O'Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can't drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O'Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O'Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O'Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O'Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There's only going to be one winner when you're up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O'Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a "pinging" kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

Did you see the one where AOS kicked Spillane in the head?

No I missed that.  What's your point?

A hanging kickout favours the better fielder who judges it best....not "attacker" or "defender".

Fair enough if it's a kickout into space that gives both players the chance to attack it.  That was not the case with Clarke's kickouts on Sunday.
Having said that Moran probably is a better fielder than O'Shea.  And he's certainly far better than Vaughan.

I think that's the point though. If Clarke was the Kerry keeper in the same situation I'd expect Moran to win those kickouts too.

Drummer

Quote from: magpie seanie on July 17, 2019, 12:55:25 PM
Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 12:21:31 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on July 17, 2019, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark’s which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a “scooped” kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O’Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can’t drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O’Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O’Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O’Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O’Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There’s only going to be one winner when you’re up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O’Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a “pinging” kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

Did you see the one where AOS kicked Spillane in the head?

No I missed that.  What's your point?

A hanging kickout favours the better fielder who judges it best....not "attacker" or "defender".

Fair enough if it's a kickout into space that gives both players the chance to attack it.  That was not the case with Clarke's kickouts on Sunday.
Having said that Moran probably is a better fielder than O'Shea.  And he's certainly far better than Vaughan.

I think that's the point though. If Clarke was the Kerry keeper in the same situation I'd expect Moran to win those kickouts too.

Don't think he'd have anywhere near the same success as he had on Sunday. If the roles were reversed I'd expect that O'Shea would at least be able to break a high percentage.
Kerry midfield on Sunday didn't even have to break the ball, such was the advantage they were given by the kickouts. 

macdanger2

Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark's which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a "scooped" kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O'Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can't drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O'Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O'Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O'Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O'Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There's only going to be one winner when you're up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O'Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a "pinging" kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

The advantage of a "pinged" kickout only really applies when you're playing it to a runner, basically it reaches him quicker and gives the opposition less time to react/intercept.

For the hanging / scooped kickout (as you've already discussed with ms), it's more to do with the starting position of the fielder than the kickout naturally favouring the opposition. Which brings me back to my original point that Clarke's kickouts don't necessarily favour either side, just that they're potentially more contestable - on Sunday though, we weren't even contesting them ffs so the problem was much more than just who's between the sticks


Drummer

Quote from: macdanger2 on July 17, 2019, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 11:34:50 AM
Quote from: macdanger2 on July 16, 2019, 08:10:34 PM
Quote from: weareros on July 16, 2019, 11:48:43 AM
[Not unlike Clark’s which are tailor made for a Willie Joe and a David Moran. I mentioned here after Roscommon game that this would happen when Clark replaced Hennelly and ye would not listen.

I've seen this written in several places, can someone explain to me how it was different for AOS and Moran catching the ball based on the trajectory?


McDanger, the problem with a “scooped” kick out that hangs high in the air before it lands is that it completely favours the opposition midfielder (e.g. David Moran), who invariably is coming from behind to attack the ball. 

Moran knows that his marker (e.g. O’Shea) has little or no space to run into for a short option due to the extremely high press that Kerry have in place. 
He knows that Clarke can’t drive it with distance and pace into the space between midfield and the Kerry half line as Patton, Cluxton or Beggan can do.
He knows that Clarkes mid-long range kicks tend to hang in air before landing.

So for those kick outs it gives Moran the chance to stand a few yards behind O’Shea.  Coming from a few yards behind to attack a hanging kickout is a significant advantage.
(i)   It gives Moran much more of a running jump than O’Shea
(ii)   While jumping it allows Moran to use his momentum to plough into O’Shea in a fair manner.
Meanwhile O’Shea is trying to contest the kickout with very little of a run or worse still from a standing position.  There’s only going to be one winner when you’re up against a good fetcher like Moran. This happened numerous times in the first 20 minutes last Sunday, to both O’Shea and Vaughan.

A keeper with more of a “pinging” kickout style finds it much easier to give a more advantageous option to his midfielders (and other team mates) i.e. a quicker, lower trajectory kickout into a small pocket of space that allows his target the chance to run on to it without giving the opposition the chance to gather around where it lands.  This is much needed when a team presses high up like Kerry did in the first half. 

Ideally the keeper should also be able to hit a Mayo runner attacking the space beyond midfield. Doing that once or twice would keep Kerry honest and force them to pull back on their high press.

In saying the above, let me finish by stating that I have huge admiration for Clarke both as a keeper and as a person.  Also, I am not advocating for Hennelly to be reintroduced for the Meath game.  But we badly need to start looking at a better long term option.

The advantage of a "pinged" kickout only really applies when you're playing it to a runner, basically it reaches him quicker and gives the opposition less time to react/intercept.

For the hanging / scooped kickout (as you've already discussed with ms), it's more to do with the starting position of the fielder than the kickout naturally favouring the opposition. Which brings me back to my original point that Clarke's kickouts don't necessarily favour either side, just that they're potentially more contestable - on Sunday though, we weren't even contesting them ffs so the problem was much more than just who's between the sticks



Yes and the starting position of the attacking midfielder - i.e. coming from behind - is generally more advantageous for that type of kickout.  In this day and age a goalkeeper should not be making kickouts contestable if possible; he should be given as much of an advantage to his own players as possible.  I agree though that we should have been more aggressive for some of the kickouts the last day.  Also, Vaughan's aerial ability is very limited so that certainly didn't help.

seafoid

Mayo are 28/1 for Sam on oddschecker
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

macdanger2

Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 02:48:04 PM
Yes and the starting position of the attacking midfielder - i.e. coming from behind - is generally more advantageous for that type of kickout.  In this day and age a goalkeeper should not be making kickouts contestable if possible; he should be given as much of an advantage to his own players as possible.  I agree though that we should have been more aggressive for some of the kickouts the last day.  Also, Vaughan's aerial ability is very limited so that certainly didn't help.

Why do you say that the attacking midfielder is usually coming from behind? Surely both midfielders are free to position themselves as they see fit. As an aside, Coen / Boyle / Keegan  should have been in there blocking the run of Moran for these kickouts instead of letting him have free reign

whitey

Quote from: seafoid on July 17, 2019, 03:07:20 PM
Mayo are 28/1 for Sam on oddschecker

When they're written off is when they are most likely to surprise

There's as much chance that they will lose to a division 3 team as there is them putting it up to the Dubs

Drummer

Quote from: macdanger2 on July 17, 2019, 03:13:20 PM
Quote from: Drummer on July 17, 2019, 02:48:04 PM
Yes and the starting position of the attacking midfielder - i.e. coming from behind - is generally more advantageous for that type of kickout.  In this day and age a goalkeeper should not be making kickouts contestable if possible; he should be given as much of an advantage to his own players as possible.  I agree though that we should have been more aggressive for some of the kickouts the last day.  Also, Vaughan's aerial ability is very limited so that certainly didn't help.

Why do you say that the attacking midfielder is usually coming from behind? Surely both midfielders are free to position themselves as they see fit. As an aside, Coen / Boyle / Keegan  should have been in there blocking the run of Moran for these kickouts instead of letting him have free reign

If Clarke was able to ping a long kickout accurately, O'Shea or Vaughan wouldn't need to worry where Moran or Spillane positioned themselves.  Moran knew the type of kickout that was coming so ensured that he was coming at it from behind. 
In general it is too risky for a defending midfielder to deliberately play his man from behind on his own kickouts.  Unless he has 100% confidence in the keeper's ability to reach him with a long kick over the head of his marker.

Blowitupref

Quote from: whitey on July 17, 2019, 03:30:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 17, 2019, 03:07:20 PM
Mayo are 28/1 for Sam on oddschecker

When they're written off is when they are most likely to surprise

There's as much chance that they will lose to a division 3 team as there is them putting it up to the Dubs

Would have to go back to 2010 since Mayo lost a championship game against a Div 3 team. 
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose