Child Abuse on the streets

[Lar Naparka]

I don't defend anyone who puts a weapon in a childs hands, regardless of who does it. The difference is, I'm not trying to sectarianise the issue by implying one community is more culpable of such a thing than the other, or celebrates such things more than the other. If you wanted to be taken seriously in the debate you raised, then sadly you have, as other have pointed out already, undermined your attempt by selecting images from only one community. Reeks of sectarianism.

I'm not "sectarianising" anything. I'm wondering whether there isn't a distinction to be made between one side, where the only people who celebrate child abuse are the child abusers themselves; and the other side, where mainstream Republicans seem unconcerned by the celebration of child abuse.

Or who do you think was behind this demonstration, which amongst other things, commemorated an 18 y.o. bomber, Patricia Black, who blew herself up on a mission in England? (Or do you imagine that that was her first involvement after reaching her majority?)

Don't altogether follow you here EG, as I've only looked in and don't intend to hang about either! Maybe, I'm missing something or other.
Is the violence we are witnessing night after night confined to those who are rioting or are there swathes of the Unionist community who encourage the lawlessness and unrest? If the only ones who condone this violence are out on the streets, the ructions would have died down long ago.
It seems clear to me that there  has to be widespread community support, in some loyalist enclaves anyway, for this type of child abuse.
On the other hand, I don't think "mainstream Republicans seem unconcerned by the celebration of child abuse" holds up if you are to go by the picture you have posted.
There are, at most, two adults watching the parade.
Mainstream Republicamns may very well be unconcerned about this form of child abuse but that can't be discerned from the photo in question.

[johnnycool]

+1.
The Nationalist Community in the North is now full of confidence and positivity (a few places excepted) and is "for" a lot of things.
Meanwhile Political Unionism is still banging negative drums and is "agin" everything and forever "angry" per media headlines.

One educated taig at a time....

I live and was brought up in a nationalist enclave in a predominantly Protestant area in the Ards peninsula and it was drummed into us from a very early age that you needed to be far smarter than our neighbours to get a good job. That was the way it was.
If you wanted to get a job in the civil service the Seamus's became James' so on and so forth.

That's now changed as the poor wee woman who works in the council offices in Ards registering births is having to use fada's quite a lot now. 

[Evil Genius]

So the crowds of adult loyalists cheering on a bunch of young boys running down a road with petol bombs were not, in fact, celebrating what the boys were doing, because "only" nationalism would do such a thing?

No, that was not what I'm saying.

My point is this, the scum who were out rioting in Sandy Row etc were not representing anyone but themselves, as demonstrated by election after election, where their political representatives routinely get wiped at the polls. And those riots were roundly condemned by all sides, incl Unionism, as is only proper.

Whereas those Republican examples I gave where young people are indoctrinated from an early age, are often encouraged and organised by mainstream Republican parties like SF.

But let me put it another way.

When I saw kids being egged on by adults in those recent riots, I was both shocked and appalled at the sight, with the Childrens' Commissioner getting it right by describing it as "Child Abuse". I assume you agree with her.

But do you feel the same when you see eg mural of the 13 y.o. in the Bogside?

[Franko]

So the crowds of adult loyalists cheering on a bunch of young boys running down a road with petol bombs were not, in fact, celebrating what the boys were doing, because "only" nationalism would do such a thing?

No, that was not what I'm saying.

My point is this, the scum who were out rioting in Sandy Row etc were not representing anyone but themselves, as demonstrated by election after election, where their political representatives routinely get wiped at the polls. And those riots were roundly condemned by all sides, incl Unionism, as is only proper.

Whereas those Republican examples I gave where young people are indoctrinated from an early age, are often encouraged and organised by mainstream Republican parties like SF.

But let me put it another way.

When I saw kids being egged on by adults in those recent riots, I was both shocked and appalled at the sight, with the Childrens' Commissioner getting it right by describing it as "Child Abuse". I assume you agree with her.

But do you feel the same when you see eg mural of the 13 y.o. in the Bogside?

A mural depicting the events of a generation ago?

Have you thought about this at all?

You are trying to draw parallels between a picture and actual events last week.

The desperation in this to come up with ANYTHING to have a go at themmuns with is off the charts.

[Evil Genius]

Watch any 12th July parades. Wee boys at the front of loyalist blood and thunder bands twirling them sticks. Culture. Fanning the flames of hate for generations to come.

I have no time for that carry-on myself.

But are you really equating a (lawful) procession on a public holiday, with lobbing petrol bombs at the police in the middle of a riot at two in the morning?

[Evil Genius]

A mural depicting the events of a generation ago?

Have you thought about this at all?

You are trying to draw parallels between a picture and actual events last week.

The desperation in this to come up with ANYTHING to have a go at themmuns with is off the charts.

The mural is a representation of a photograph of an actual event.

So let me ask you the question: Do you consider the people who gave that 13 y.o. a gas mask and petrol bomb, and sent him out into a murderous riot to be child abusers?

[Franko]

A mural depicting the events of a generation ago?

Have you thought about this at all?

You are trying to draw parallels between a picture and actual events last week.

The desperation in this to come up with ANYTHING to have a go at themmuns with is off the charts.

The mural is a representation of a photograph of an actual event.

So let me ask you the question: Do you consider the people who gave that 13 y.o. a gas mask and petrol bomb, and sent him out into a murderous riot to be child abusers?

Yes, 100%.

[Franko]

Watch any 12th July parades. Wee boys at the front of loyalist blood and thunder bands twirling them sticks. Culture. Fanning the flames of hate for generations to come.

I have no time for that carry-on myself.

But are you really equating a (lawful) procession on a public holiday, with lobbing petrol bombs at the police in the middle of a riot at two in the morning?

You've equated it to a mural, depicting a photograph of an event which happened 40-odd years ago, during some of the worst times this dump has ever endured.

(And incidentally, at a time when the definition of child abuse was markedly different than it is now.)

And, without flinching, have suggested that we be equally appalled when looking at each TODAY.

All in some desperate attempt at deflection and equivocation.

[Franko]

Is the purpose of this thread to find a solution? Or is it whataboutery? Just wondering before I proceed...

Classic EG whataboutery.

Two more people who use the term without understanding what it means...

For information, "Whataboutery" is where someone seeks to excuse his own wrongdoing by reference to that of another eg: "You can't blame me for stealing £5, when him over there stole £10"

I am not excusing anyone in this abomination, they're all equally to blame for being child abusers.

What I am doing is highlighting double standards, whereby one set of people who encourage children to throw petrol bombs at the police eg in Sandy Row are (quite rightly) condemned, while others who encouraged it eg in the Bogside get to "celebrate" it with a tourist attraction. 

One further note EG.

You do seem to have a good grasp of the English language, but that doesn't mean you get to change the definition of words to suit your own ends.

By any of the three definitions below, your behaviour here is classic whataboutery.

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/whataboutism
https://www.lexico.com/definition/whataboutery
https://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/whataboutery

[johnnycool]

So the crowds of adult loyalists cheering on a bunch of young boys running down a road with petol bombs were not, in fact, celebrating what the boys were doing, because "only" nationalism would do such a thing?

No, that was not what I'm saying.

My point is this, the scum who were out rioting in Sandy Row etc were not representing anyone but themselves, as demonstrated by election after election, where their political representatives routinely get wiped at the polls. And those riots were roundly condemned by all sides, incl Unionism, as is only proper.

Whereas those Republican examples I gave where young people are indoctrinated from an early age, are often encouraged and organised by mainstream Republican parties like SF.

But let me put it another way.

When I saw kids being egged on by adults in those recent riots, I was both shocked and appalled at the sight, with the Childrens' Commissioner getting it right by describing it as "Child Abuse". I assume you agree with her.

But do you feel the same when you see eg mural of the 13 y.o. in the Bogside?

A lot of those unionists condemning the riots stirred the pot the weeks leading up to it and quite a few condemnations had a big but in them..

[Armagh18]

So the crowds of adult loyalists cheering on a bunch of young boys running down a road with petol bombs were not, in fact, celebrating what the boys were doing, because "only" nationalism would do such a thing?

No, that was not what I'm saying.

My point is this, the scum who were out rioting in Sandy Row etc were not representing anyone but themselves, as demonstrated by election after election, where their political representatives routinely get wiped at the polls. And those riots were roundly condemned by all sides, incl Unionism, as is only proper.

Whereas those Republican examples I gave where young people are indoctrinated from an early age, are often encouraged and organised by mainstream Republican parties like SF.

But let me put it another way.

When I saw kids being egged on by adults in those recent riots, I was both shocked and appalled at the sight, with the Childrens' Commissioner getting it right by describing it as "Child Abuse". I assume you agree with her.

But do you feel the same when you see eg mural of the 13 y.o. in the Bogside?

I think you've got this one arse about face.... it's the DUP who are still answering to the UDA...