Super 8s

Started by theticklemister, February 19, 2017, 10:55:16 PM

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AZOffaly

Quote from: Itchy on February 25, 2017, 11:00:54 PM
Can someone explain to me as i am obviously stupid, how does this help club players throughout Ireland?

This proposal does nothing. The other two which moved the All Ireland forward are good and worthy.

AZOffaly

Quote from: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:26:40 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.

Sid all of that could have been achieved without the Super 8 motion, which is why I say that the super 8 is just window dressing to placate media and corporate partners.

I fully support the initiative to shorten the season.

I don't really understand the hostility to the Super 8 either mind you.

Zulu

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:58:44 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:44:08 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 10:34:57 PM
What does what mean?

You've made it clear that you like the big boys clashing at the end of the year, and the more often the better. Fine. To be honest I don't give a shite about the big boys. They are always ok.

You sneer at provincial championships. I don't, I like the, and I think I am in the majority there. So I would like a way, if we have to fix some nebulous problem, to make sure the provincials are part of that.


I find your attitude on this very condescending.

And again, I've said several times I'm not against this, I just think it's a bit of window dressing.

AZ, you're a good poster but when you accuse me of being condensing while saying I'm all about seeing the big boys clashing, well just say that's nonsense. Neither do I sneer at provincials, I just think they are central to our problems. Please put forward a proposal where the provincials are central to a format where weaker teams are helped and the sport is promoted?

You don't sneer at provincials, you would just get rid of them in the morning, thanks for clarifying.

Provincial championships, seeded such that weaker teams play each other in earlier rounds, with seedings based in league final position. No back doors,no qualifiers.

That would be fundamental reform, but so simple to do.

Why would Waterford, Carlow, Wicklow want to play each other early so they could get beaten by the same teams they always got beaten by?

AZOffaly

Sure why should they bother at all? They seem to like it.

From the Bunker

Mayo this year were beaten by Galway.

Game 1 Mayo v Galway


They then went on to play

Game 2  v Fermanagh
Game 3 v Kildare
Game 4 v Westmeath

So then i presume we'd have this group stage of the Super 8

Tipp
Galway
Mayo
Tyrone

So games for Mayo would be


Game 5 Mayo v Galway
Game 6 Mayo v Tipp
Game 7 Mayo v Tyrone

So we'll presume Mayo top the group and play the Runner up of the other group

Game 8 Mayo v Kerry

And if then they win that of course you have

Game 9 Dublin in the final.

Game 10 the Replay


Thoughts

10 games to win an AI in the Mayo example above. Probably more if you are an Ulster team who wins a Preliminary round and loses a Quater final in the Ulster Championship.


I have to say Mayo were stretched after the Fermanagh/Kildare/Westmeath games coming into their game against Tyrone. Imagine having those hurdles and then asked to proceed onto the Tyrone/Tipp/Galway games before you see a semi final.

Under the new set-up could Mayo lose twice and win an AI?

Under the new set-up (and using the above example) could Mayo lose twice to Galway and win an AI?

Do Dublin Get to play ALL there Super 8 games in Croker?

Will teams throw games not to meet Dublin in a semi-final?

What happens where you have two teams with nothing to play for in the final game of the Super 8 round robin?

What happens when you have one team with something to play for and another with nothing to play for in the final game of the Super 8 round robin?

What happens when you have one team with something to play for and another with nothing to play for in the final game of the Super 8 round robin and another team depends on a result from the team who has nothing to play for?


















sid waddell

Quote from: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:26:40 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.

Sid all of that could have been achieved without the Super 8 motion, which is why I say that the super 8 is just window dressing to placate media and corporate partners.

I fully support the initiative to shorten the season.

I don't really understand the hostility to the Super 8 either mind you.

The Super 8 does two things. It makes it more difficult to organise the inter-county calendar. the start of the championship will be pushed back almost on top of the league. The inter county calendar will now run effectively non-stop from the start of January to the end of August.

It is also a way to make up for the shortfall which will come from the smaller amount of replays, which have been a big money spinner and driver of media publicity for the GAA over the years, eg. the Dublin-Mayo replay in 2015 and the Kerry Mayo replay in 2014.

Zulu

I'm asking because you are criticising the new system. I think the current system is  a disaster and the new one falls short but I support the new one because it is better. You seem to be against both.

AZOffaly

Quote from: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 11:12:30 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 25, 2017, 11:04:53 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on February 25, 2017, 11:01:13 PM
Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 10:26:40 PM
How is this pretend change? I'm sick of hearing people complain but only want a solution that isn't even possible. We can't have a provincial championship and club and county players playing multiple age groups and two codes. That is the simple reality. Stop complaining and layout the solution rather than knock an imperfect solution.
For certainty for club players to be achieved as regards when their championship games are, the inter-county deck has to be effectively cleared for the year.

If club championship games are to be played during a county's involvement in the inter-county championship, there can never be any certainty as to when these club games will be. Your county could be playing in a provincial final, they could be playing in the qualifiers.

But you won't know in advance when the county will be playing (at least once the first provincial game is over) so you can't plan with certainty as to when to schedule club championship games.

This plan at least gives certainty.

Club league games go ahead without county players. This is generally the case as it is. There can now be certainty over this and about planning ordinary club league games without county players.

County Championships in all counties should begin no earlier than the last week in July, which will be the case in most counties as most counties will have no involvement in the inter-county championships beyond late July. There should be now certainty over this.

Sid all of that could have been achieved without the Super 8 motion, which is why I say that the super 8 is just window dressing to placate media and corporate partners.

I fully support the initiative to shorten the season.

I don't really understand the hostility to the Super 8 either mind you.

The Super 8 does two things. It makes it more difficult to organise the calendar. the start of the championship will be pushed back almost on top of the league. The inter county calendar will now run effectively non-stop from the start of January to the end of August.

It is also a way to make up for the shortfall which will come from the smaller amount of replays, which have been a big money spinner and driver of media publicity for the GAA over the years, eg. the Dublin-Mayo replay in 2015 and the Kerry Mayo replay in 2014.

Never thought of it in terms of making up replay shortfall. Good point.

AZOffaly

Quote from: Zulu on February 25, 2017, 11:13:24 PM
I'm asking because you are criticising the new system. I think the current system is  a disaster and the new one falls short but I support the new one because it is better. You seem to be against both.

Jesus. Will you read what I wrote 😀 I said I'm NOT against the new change. I just don't see much difference in it in real terms.


BennyCake

Bunker, Mayo could actually lose 3 times and still win an AI...if they were drawn against Laois, and they still hadn't learnt to count.

Zulu

I saw you're not against it but you still seem to be complaining about it!! It isn't perfect but worth a try, can we agree on that???!!

AZOffaly

I don't think I'm complaining about it. You should see me when I start complaining! All I said is I didn't really see the point of it, other than as an update to the product offered to media and sponsors.

I'm more than willing to see what happens with it, I never said otherwise. So yes, we can agree on that. Stand down to Defcon 4. 😀

AZOffaly

Quote from: hardstation on February 25, 2017, 11:29:42 PM
AZ, I'm not sure why you're trying to turn people against this change when you haven't offered any decent alternative.

😀

Zulu

Ok.

Point 1. Provincial winners get a second chance

Point 2. More high profile games

Point 3. No easy paths to All Ireland SF

Point 4. Big games at local venues giving families a better opportunity to see games

Syferus

Quote from: hardstation on February 25, 2017, 11:29:42 PM
AZ, I'm not sure why you're trying to turn people against this change when you haven't offered any decent alternative.

There's not many left to turn against it in the first place.