Super 8s

[yellowcard]

I think there is growing momentum against these proposals and I'd still be hopeful that they won't get through particularly in light of the statements from both players bodies in recent days.

Is this voted for by secret ballot?

[Captain Obvious]

It's looking like this super 8 championship format will become reality with some counties that shouldn't be voting for it suddenly voting in favour of it. Honestly I have seen much better formats outlined on here by chaps at 2am in the morning probably filled with alcohol than the super 8 format. If you ask me it's all a little fishy how this motion will get passed.

[Avondhu star]

It's looking like this super 8 championship format will become reality with some counties that shouldn't be voting for it suddenly voting in favour of it. Honestly I have seen much better formats outlined on here by chaps at 2am in the morning probably filled with alcohol than the super 8 format. If you ask me it's all a little fishy how this motion will get passed.

Just check out who is buying the correct amount drink for the delegates before the vote

[Esmarelda]

Do we know what way the vote is likely to go at this stage? I think everything at this stage is just mere speculation and I'm hopeful that the statements of the CPA in recent days will have influence in getting the 1/3rd support needed to prevent this motion from passing. Otherwise I think this has the capability of being a massive own goal for the GAA and will lead to a further divide between the GAA hierarchy and the grass roots.

Out of interest, what's your main objection to these proposals going through?

I can see some logic in the CPA argument that they don't go far enough and that the can is being pushed down the road for another 3 years. But this is GAA Congress were talking about, no radical proposal is getting through there for another couple of decades. As far as I can see the only real changes proposed here are an extra 8 matches in July/August played at provincial venues. Grounds that are lucky to see one big match a year at present.

I'd like to know the answer to this question to all those opposed.

What I mean is, regardless of what anyone thinks the ideal solution is, do you think that the current system is better or worse than the new proposal?

It's worse. It creates extra games for 8 counties, locking up county players for a greater period of the summer. It allows the stronger teams to have a couple of shit days out and still win the All Ireland. It allows the Division 1 elite to play more against top sides, become richer and become stronger.

It's one and only positive is that it increases the gaa coffers and will produce and favour more lucrative TV deals. It's the championship structure that Rupert murdoch would dream up.

And I'm not just a dour negative b**tard. I'll support intelligent change such as wobblers, but this new proposal is an abberation.

Why are you in favour of it?

I'll deal with your issues with it first if that's ok.

Eight counties will have their county players locked up for longer than currently is the situation. If ever there was a negative way of spinning the proposal it's this. The round prior to the Super 8/Quarter Finals would be played on the weekend of 2 July in 2016 under the new proposal. Under the old format this round was played two and three weeks later. If you look at the table in proposal it shows that all teams (excluding the top 8 for the minute) leave the championship earlier under the new format. So instead of focusing on 8 teams being in it too long, why not look at the other 24 having their players available to clubs earlier?

On to the last eight teams. As it stands, the two AI finalists will keep their players from their clubs up to the third Sunday in September. Under the new proposal, the final will be played three weeks earlier. So that's two more counties  you can to the 24 above. We're getting pretty thin on the ground with this point as we're left with six counties but I'll finish it out. The two losing semi-finalists under the current proposal left the championship on the 21st and 28th of August. With the new one, they'd be free two weeks earlier. So you're left with the four teams that don't get past the Super 8 stage; two of these would exit the same weekend and two would exit a week earlier.

So I think, unless I made a mistake, that your first point is factually incorrect. One of the reasons I'm in favour of the proposal is because, as you can now see, almost every county gets their players for club football earlier.

It does allow the top teams an extra slip-up, that's fair enough if that's a problem for you. I'll accept that.

But again, why not point out that it allows the likes of Tipp or Clare to play three games against the elite rather than telling us that the Division 1 teams get to play each other? There are countless posts about how difficult it will be to reach an AISF as if there was a trophy for it. Is it not as good to reach an AIQF stage and get three top games, including one at home and ride the wave that that would bring?

Comments (not yours) also about how different the last eight teams will be even though it's the exact same route to the last eight. Are people clear on the proposal because I'm all for opinion but there's just some glaring inaccuracies out there.

Philip Jordan's piece is being rightly applauded but it's largely irrelevant in 2017 as nothing  he says has any chance of getting through.

[Croí na hÉireann]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

[Hound]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

[Croí na hÉireann]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.

[Zulu]

I don't follow. If Westmeath made it to the super 8 they could be in a group with Galway (or a similar standard team) as their main rival for the runner up spot so win that one off game and they could still make the semi final.

[Hound]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.

That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

[Croí na hÉireann]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.

That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html

[Esmarelda]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.

That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html

Would making the quarter final and hosting Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles not have built just as good a foundation. You think making the semi would be that much of a bigger step?

[AZOffaly]

Tipp hosted Tyrone in Thurles. It didn't work out so well.

[Esmarelda]

Tipp hosted Tyrone in Thurles. It didn't work out so well.

Neither did Mayo v Tipp in Croke Park. Maybe Tipp should pack it in altogether 

[Croí na hÉireann]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.

That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html

Would making the quarter final and hosting Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles not have built just as good a foundation. You think making the semi would be that much of a bigger step?

Of course a semi final is a bigger step than a quarter final. Was that a serious question?

[Esmarelda]

I'll give credit where it's due to the GPA for their opposition to this stupid idea and moreso the reasons they have listed for their opposition. Perhaps I have misread them and it's the Duffy's, O'Fearghail's and McKenna's that are really driving the professional agenda?

You haven't misread them Seanie. This isn't a board decision from the GPA, they had a vote of their members. So all the Sligo, Westmeath, Tipp, etc players would have voted against it and the Dublin, Kerry, Mayo, etc players would have voted for it. There's more of us (weak) than there is of them (strong), so that explains the GPA position.

But if Westmeath and Sligo have their "usual" year, the new format wouldn't impact them one iota.
If they have a really good year they would get to the Super8 QF stage, where they would play one home game, one away game (both probably sellouts and great atmosphere) and a game in Croker.

Why would Westmeath and Sligo players and fans be against that? No downside compared to current format and big potential upside if they have a good run.

Because like Tipp last year we'd fancy our chances in a one off game against the likes of Galway. We lost to Mayo and Dublin last year, while we were competitive at times in both games we weren't in danger of winning coming down either home straight. We wouldn't stand a chance of getting out of a group with two of the top four in it. That's a huge downside.

That's a peculiar way of looking at it, in my opinion.

Is having a guaranteed 3 games not a huge benefit? Being part of the Super8 event? If Westmeath or Sligo get to a QF and draw Kerry or Dublin, they are 99% likely to get beaten. Whereas 3 games give you the change to make an impression, actually increases the chances of getting a big win and having that huge day out and helps to build for next year. I don't think any team is going to come from nowhere and win Sam in Year 1.

Clare would certainly have done better in the proposed system than the old system. And Tipp would have had one extra big game. If they'd lost that and gone out in the QF stage rather than SF, I'm not sure that would have made a huge difference.

If you were guaranteed to make the last 8 every year it would be. However the Westmeaths and Sligos only get there once in a blue moon. Take Tipp last year, if the Super 8's were in force they would have been in a group with Galway, Tyrone and Mayo. You don't need me to tell you how that would work out. This year they are starting on the back of making the AI semi final the previous year. Mayo and Donegal made huge strides in recent years after making the semi finals in the first year under new management. Mayo and Donegal probably had stronger foundations whereas Tipp could find themselves like Wexford in 08 but at least they have the knowledge of a successful year behind them.

Clare would have been in with Kerry, Dublin and Donegal. They wouldn't have a snowballs chance either way but if you had to choose one they only plausible route for progression would again be a one off game where the unthinkable happens. Lightening doesn't strike twice, let alone three times.

See Brolly has an article that fairly sums it up for me in the Indo today. http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/joe-brolly-super-eight-proposals-are-a-private-club-for-the-big-counties-a-commercial-juggernaut-35475716.html

Would making the quarter final and hosting Mayo or Tyrone in Thurles not have built just as good a foundation. You think making the semi would be that much of a bigger step?

Of course a semi final is a bigger step than a quarter final. Was that a serious question?

Is that the question I asked? No is the answer.