Dublin v Kerry 2023 Senior All Ireland final

[Blowitupref]

Try to objectively compare the like-for-like performances of Mannion and Clifford today; what they contributed, what they missed, what they did right, what they did wrong... and there's next to nothing in it.

Yet One of them has just been given MOTM and the other is being questioned for his ability on the big day.

Clifford is always going to be measured differently. That's the burden of greatness.

But it's still not right.

That was a defender's day. In every possible way. It should have been a defender MOTM.

Seriously, one was the of main reasons Dublin won, the other was one of the main reasons Kerry lost.

Honestly I think this is a lazy narrative.

Mannion didn't drive Dublin forward. He wasn't a ball winner, wasn't incessant. And he made a few mistakes. But he did - to his absolute credit - put himself in the right positions, and he kicked crucial scores. I'd call it a 7/10 performance. Maybe a bonus 7.5 out of 10 for kicking the difficult point.

Clifford did show. He did win ball. He drove when he could. But his mistakes were magnified somewhat by fact that he's David Clifford and we expect perfection. He had around a 6/10 game. But had a more normal player - let's say Ryan O'Donaghue - kept showing and trying like that, he'd likely be remarked on for his willingness and effort, to a 7/10.

Honestly there wasn't much between their performance levels today. They're just marked differently.

Mannion scored what 5 points from 6 or 7 attempts? most of his scores came at important stages in the game, it was his best performance for Dublin this year and I'd give him 8/10.

Don't think Fitzsimons marked Clifford overly well. Scored 0-2 from play off him and set up the goal and on another day would have scored another 4 or 5 points from play if it wasn't for his wayward shooting and decision making.

[mrdeeds]

Jesus it's hard to be happy for them if they can't be happy for themselves. Them interviews. Holy god.

In fairness Mannion and McCafferey were understandably uncomfortable when interviewed. Both have taken sabbaticals, and you could see the awkwardness of Mannion receiving MOTM award. Cluxton, was Cluxton. He hates the interview BS stuff. I like him more for that reason.

The questions to Fitzgibbon and McCarthy asking them to talk up each other where a hard listen also.

To be fair all also seemed a little tipsy and were trying to be extra careful because of this.

The two hard years crap too. Like seriously.

[Wildweasel74]

Clifford got enough room to score 6 from play, a few misses were bad ones for even a normal player. Had he scored all, we be saying Fitzsimmons got destroyed.

[highorlow]

Seemed bizarre that Kerry didn't press Dublins kick outs more, I'll have to watch the match again but I felt all through the game that Kerry weren't brave / risky enough, e.g., O'Brien on a good few occasions was free and either Moynihan or P Clifford didn't make the pass. Have to feel for Gavin White as well, a clean sheet may have been enough for Kerry to win, fine margins again .

[Jell 0 Biafra]

Clifford got enough room to score 6 from play, a few misses were bad ones for even a normal player. Had he scored all, we be saying Fitzsimmons got destroyed.

Watching it back now, and yeah, he missed some you would expect him to score, but a number of his misses (wides/shots dropping short) were from out on the sidelines, where he was well marshalled by Fitzsimmons. 

[thejuice]

Enjoyable good tough game. Was hoping Kerry win but ultimately they couldn't get the scores and coughed up the ball too often.

[straightred]

I didn't even know Costello was on the pitch to be honest

This is why those lads have 9 medals and a few more have 7 and 8. Costello was the main reason (maybe only reason) they got past Monaghan. Yesterday someone else steps up when he has a quiet day. Most counties, including Kerry, need their top men to step up every day

[yellowcard]

Clifford looked absolutely knackered with 20 minutes remaining. His off the ball movement was poor and he didn't produce it on the biggest day so I'm not sure where this narrative that he played as well as Mannion is coming from. I dont even think it was down to great defending from Fitzsimmons or Byrne but it proved again that Kerry are much too reliant on one player and if he doesn't produce the goods then you have a good chance of beating them.

[Saffrongael]

Clifford looked absolutely knackered with 20 minutes remaining. His off the ball movement was poor and he didn't produce it on the biggest day so I'm not sure where this narrative that he played as well as Mannion is coming from. I dont even think it was down to great defending from Fitzsimmons or Byrne but it proved again that Kerry are much too reliant on one player and if he doesn't produce the goods then you have a good chance of beating them.

Unless you are Tyrone

[yellowcard]

Clifford looked absolutely knackered with 20 minutes remaining. His off the ball movement was poor and he didn't produce it on the biggest day so I'm not sure where this narrative that he played as well as Mannion is coming from. I dont even think it was down to great defending from Fitzsimmons or Byrne but it proved again that Kerry are much too reliant on one player and if he doesn't produce the goods then you have a good chance of beating them.

Unless you are Tyrone

That's true, they were so poor that they took Clifford out of the game in the quarter final yet still managed to lose by double digits.

[tbrick18]

I think the narrative about Kerry being overly reliant on D Clifford is overplayed.
Sean O'shea, P Clifford and Geaney all had good games yesterday and contributed scores and from open play.
Certainly as much as the Dublin FF line did.
As somoene else pointed out, Clifford was also marked out of it the Tyrone game (or was it a bad performance too?), but the rest of the supporting cast ensured a hammering of Tyrone.
Against Derry, Clifford put a masterclass against Derry and had he played like he did yesterday, I believe Derry would have won comfortably.

So it's not as clear cut as people are making out. He's undoubtedly very important to Kerry and a class footballer, but I still think Kerry have other classy forwards. As always though, you need everything to click to win an AI, and with Clifford not at full tilt this ultimately cost Kerry.

A poor enough game to be honest in terms of attacking quality. Very defensive, some brilliant tackling from both teams made it a tense affair but the whole game felt flat, the two goals being the only real stand out moments of real excitement.

[Sportacus]

Cluxton's first 45 and Fenton's point in the second half were savage psychological blows landed by Dublin. As if to say here go again, we're as good as ever and you know that only means one outcome.

[full moon]

I didn't even know Costello was on the pitch to be honest

This is why those lads have 9 medals and a few more have 7 and 8. Costello was the main reason (maybe only reason) they got past Monaghan. Yesterday someone else steps up when he has a quiet day. Most counties, including Kerry, need their top men to step up every day

Exactly. Name another team in history that could afford to use Jack McCaffrey from the bench. Impossible.

I actually thought Lee Gannon was doing decent enough at times. Yellow card, substituted. Ruthless because they can be with that strength in depth.

What's tiring is people thinking that other teams are close to Dublin when they are a million miles away from that depth. They will almost certainly be in the final nearly every year for the next decade again. Too strong.

[marty34]

I think the narrative about Kerry being overly reliant on D Clifford is overplayed.
Sean O'shea, P Clifford and Geaney all had good games yesterday and contributed scores and from open play.
Certainly as much as the Dublin FF line did.
As somoene else pointed out, Clifford was also marked out of it the Tyrone game (or was it a bad performance too?), but the rest of the supporting cast ensured a hammering of Tyrone.
Against Derry, Clifford put a masterclass against Derry and had he played like he did yesterday, I believe Derry would have won comfortably.

So it's not as clear cut as people are making out. He's undoubtedly very important to Kerry and a class footballer, but I still think Kerry have other classy forwards. As always though, you need everything to click to win an AI, and with Clifford not at full tilt this ultimately cost Kerry.

A poor enough game to be honest in terms of attacking quality. Very defensive, some brilliant tackling from both teams made it a tense affair but the whole game felt flat, the two goals being the only real stand out moments of real excitement.

I thought David Clifford was decent enough yesterday.  Scored a few, set up the goal with a great pass and got on ball.

The only thing he was missing was his shooting boots...but not by much. Another few inches and he could have had 5 or 6 pts from play.

Outwith Mannion, there was no standout player yesterday so that's good for other counties looking for All-Stars.  Keeps it open in that way. 

[JoG2]

I didn't even know Costello was on the pitch to be honest

This is why those lads have 9 medals and a few more have 7 and 8. Costello was the main reason (maybe only reason) they got past Monaghan. Yesterday someone else steps up when he has a quiet day. Most counties, including Kerry, need their top men to step up every day

Exactly. Name another team in history that could afford to use Jack McCaffrey from the bench. Impossible.

I actually thought Lee Gannon was doing decent enough at times. Yellow card, substituted. Ruthless because they can be with that strength in depth.

What's tiring is people thinking that other teams are close to Dublin when they are a million miles away from that depth. They will almost certainly be in the final nearly every year for the next decade again. Too strong.

Name the players coming through who will be replacing the likes of Cluxton, Rock, Mannion, Mccarthy etc to keep Dublin in final after final for the next decade?