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It seems the Zero COVID debate is dead. You can't keep flogging a dead horse.

There's never really been a proper debate about it

New Zealand shows it can work

Devi Sridhar said last week that the UK is now effectively pursuing its own zero Covid strategy

If we are in a second wave, will there be a third and fourth wave?

I'm not sure it's useful to think of this in waves

It's probably more useful to imagine it as Japanese knotweed

Or Dublin in the second half of an All-Ireland final

It'll just keep coming at you relentlessly

[Would you maybe agree though that there's a better chance of the fire being allowed to be put out, when people are scared of getting burnt?]

if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

Sure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.

It seems obvious to me it's a postponement

But sure that's what the Brits did in March, you're best off acting sooner rather than later

Maybe there's a psychological aspect to it, ie. deliberately let the numbers go up to scare people, but not so far up that it overwhelms the health service

But I don't actually think they're that machiavelian

And by doing that you dice with things spiralling out of control

Putting the fire out when you have the chance is better than letting it rage a bit more before acting

Would you maybe agree though that there's a better chance of the fire being allowed to be put out, when people are scared of getting burnt?

Level 5 is only a theoretical level 5  until the majority of the population get onboard with it. Sadly, until there's a massive spike in deaths somewhere (it doesn't have to be Ireland, but close enough to home to make it seem very real), a chunky percentage of the population will ignore it. Not fight it per se, but definitely pay lip service to it.

I'd also think that much as everyone wants to keep schools open, the right time to level 5 it is with an extended school break. It will just be easier to comprehend and get on board with.

This is possible, but it's also possible the fire will continue to burn underneath the floorboards and by the time people decide they want out, the fire could be out of control

In my view the lockdown is likely to be longer and harder the longer you put it off, we have the lesson of last March for this

Public debate has turned into an almost impenetrable barrage of conflicting messages the last few months and especially the last few weeks as RTE and the Irish Times have platformed a series of contrarians who in truth have had very weak arguments, people like Ciara Kelly and Niall Boylan are driving a large section of visible public opinion (as opposed to what I believe is still a large, largely silent majority) in what in my view is a very worrying direction

The government so publicly going against Neffit now only contributes even more to that

But I don't think the data presents us with a hugely conflicting picture, it's going in one direction

I think if this doesn't work, and I expect it probably won't, I think in a best case scenario it will keep things ticking along at a certain level which is already too high and which means restrictions cannot be relaxed, it will lead to a very deep seated distrust and cynicism towards any government messaging, which would be very unfortunate

I think part of the problem also is that the public messaging since last March suggested or at least hinted that restrictions could be a reasonably short term thing

It was a sort of "the war will be over by Christmas" idea

But that wasn't the case and even last March it always seemed very unlikely that it would be

This is likely a multi-year job

People are going to have to reconcile themselves to this likelihood or at least the strong possibility of such

The zero Covid strategy still seems worthy of a serious discussion

At least government need to come out and state very clearly why it is not possible if they believe it's not possible

Haven't heard much of Souness, but I do listen to Giles quite regularly on Eamon Dunphy's podcast.

They were actually only talking about Pogba last week, and from what I remember, Giles was quite complementary about him, particularly ability-wise, but putting the problem down to United's tactics and the way he was being used, with United not playing to his strengths. Basically, he doesn't fit the team.

The impression I got from Giles a couple of years ago was that he thought Pogba was trouble

Perhaps the Giles-endorsed Labour TD Aodhan O'Riordain has had a word in his ear since

Personally I think it's nonsense to say Pogba doesn't fit a team

He's the guy you build your team around

But he has also shown he can sacrifice himself for the benefit of the team as he did when France won the World Cup, he played quite a defensive role if I remember rightly and it was only in the final, when France already had the upper hand, that he let loose

All comes back to the lack of good management on the football side of things at Manchester United

Quality managers know how to exploit quality players, Solsklaer is a place holder who they don't have the guts to move on

Mourinho is still an above average coach but he was poison personality wise at United, and at the height of his paranoia

if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

I's say they haven't so much rejected it as postponed it, despite the headlines. More a case of moving up through the gears. The NPHET meeting last Thursday didn't have this so the Sunday recommendation was a bit a step change.

In a few days the government will say "we warned you, but the numbers are still going up" and go for level 4,  in many places at least.

Sure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

Actually, that wouldn't be such a bad idea. If aforesaid person was in charge, then people would be wearing masks and if they don't like they could get out.

It seems obvious to me it's a postponement

But sure that's what the Brits did in March, you're best off acting sooner rather than later

Maybe there's a psychological aspect to it, ie. deliberately let the numbers go up to scare people, but not so far up that it overwhelms the health service

But I don't actually think they're that machiavelian

And by doing that you dice with things spiralling out of control

Putting the fire out when you have the chance is better than letting it rage a bit more before acting

Joe obviously doesn't venture into the Clonliffe House beer garden or any of the other pubs down around Ballybough, Summerhill, Fairview or Marino after a Dublin All-Ireland win

His favourite haunting ground Mulligan's is a bit genteel

if the government are going to do what the media are saying they're going to do and reject NPHET's advice I think it's a very bad call

Huge long term consequences for compliance to whatever restrictions are in place at any particular time

A seminal moment

The crackpots have seriously influenced public debate for the worse

Sure you might as well put Generic Ultra-Confident But Clueless Blowhard Airline Executive in charge of policy now

That'll keep the contrarians happy

But it won't be good for public health and the health system

Brolly on radio earlier saying County can go ahead because people don't really care about it and you won't see much exuberance when a County wins a Championship.
He's from Derry alright!

Funnily enough Joe's Twitter handle appends 1993 to his name - not 1997, when Dungiven won the Ulster club

I wonder why that is

I was at the 1993 All-Ireland final and I don't recall the aftermath, or indeed during the match, being in any way restrained

[however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.]

Granted some of your above points however any stick Pogba gets is nothing to do with race.

I hae me doots about that, it's not something that's provable but I think there's definitely an element of unconscious racism with some people who focus on him, Souness and Giles especially, a sort of unconscious Ron Atkinson complex

It would be very naive to think that sort of attitude has simply disappeared

[I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple]

The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.

Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media

I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

Possibly Sid however the difference is Bale delivers on the pitch (when he does get on).

Being on Spain also took some attention off him.

Pogba doesnt deliver on the pitch (or hasnt any time I have seen him in the last few years).

Off the pitch his social media presence, the brands he promotes - you have to deliver if you are going to do that.

Dont remember Bale having any social media presence as such

Bale hasn't delivered very much on the pitch since 2016 with the notable exception of the Champions League final in 2018 - but that was just one kick of a ball, a great one admittedly (his second goal was a goalkeeping howler which should have been stopped 100 times out of 100)

He was happy to pose with a flag which said "Wales, Golf, Madrid, in that order"

That's far more unprofessional than anything Pogba did

Pogba is a Rolls Royce of a footballer and showed it at the 2018 World Cup

He made a disastrous career move to a club which has been poison for the last seven years and where nobody seems to know what they're doing

Difficult to shine in that atmosphere

I do think there's an element of certain old school pundits taking a particular dislike to him because they're automatically suspicious of a confident young black man from the Paris banlieues and automatically think he's of bad character

The likes of Souness and Giles look at Pogba and just think to themselves "trouble", because they can't identify with him

But that's not the reality

In reality Pogba is no different in character to most other professional footballers, he just needs somebody to bring the best out of his talents and he hasn't had that at Manchester United, I keep saying it but if they had a proper manager like Pochettino I'd wager they'd get a lot more out of Pogba

[I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple]

The season before last he scored 13 league goals and had 10 assists despite not always being played in an advanced role. The season before that he had 13 assists.

To me that's a good return for any midfielder under the circumstances, especially when you factor in many of his teammates were terrible.

I believe a lot of the criticism he gets is racist pure and simple. There's absolutely no chance a white English midfielder performing to Pogba's level would get the same level of unwarranted criticism.

Pogba is a very talented player,but he isn't being used to his strengths. In a way he's a victim of his own versatility.

That's an interesting narrative.

By "interesting" I mean, "when a player has continually underachieved for 3 years, attempts to defend him is just being contrary for the sake of it".

Racist?
Show me an white English midfielder who was signed for what he was signed for and what he is paid weekly?

If there was one and he was carrying on the way Pogba does (on and off the field) he would be destroyed by the English media

I suppose Gareth Bale would be as close to a comparison as you could get

A world class talent who hasn't had the best attitude over the last few years, but who still showed his quality when it mattered most in 2018

The British media seem to be fairly sweet on him, I suppose because they find him to be an identifiable figure in the way they don't with Pogba

GAA needs to call a halt to the season. They made the right call at the beginning of this pandemic and they need to do the same again, I know in the north here there is a section of people that are just waiting to lay the blame at the GAA if this gets any worse.

The GAA aren't exactly helping themselves as pointed out by previous posters. John Horan was quick to call out NPHET when they introduced limitiations but the silence from Croke Park has been deafening the last few weeks as you see all the videos/tv pictures of clubs and/or county boards ignoring social distancing rules

Main thing that isn't helping is the mixed messages and state of confusion.

GAA asked for clarity as to why the 200 ( number including players officials etc) at matches in ROI suddenly became zero. Only for weeks later with a higher covid case loads 200 supporters was allowed to attend.

This is giving people a cop out that they don't deserve, at no stage has anyone in authority said that social distancing has been done away with. The lack of personal responsibility from GAA supporters is indefensible and will certainly be a contributing factor to costing us the inter county season as now looks likely.

Blame game towards people is a waste of time, I could go on in detail about how the poorly controlled indoor factories played a big part in the spike in our covid cases in late July early August but I won't. This bloody annoying virus is the main thing to blame.

There isn't much point blaming an invisible virus which has no consciousness

The virus can only be managed by people acting responsibly

People getting angry because other people are getting angry at their irresponsible behaviour is a parable for our times, false victimhood has become the default reaction of those who behave badly, sadly we have become Thatcher's anti-society of individuals

Blackrock have no excuse

The GAA is supposed to be about community and yet it has been demonstrated that there are plenty of people in the GAA who don't give a flying fig about community

A functioning test and trace system and a functioning national public health service with loads of capacity would be great

But when you put your faith in right wing politics and market ideology over many decades, you won't get those things, you'll get a cut in capital gains tax though

Chickens coming home to roost

So that means there's little option but to do what Neffit propose

"Watch this! Would an invalid doped up to the eyeballs be able to do this?"

- sits in back of a car -

Bernie Sanders has given a scathing review of the new cult blockbuster Weekend At Donnie's

No press combined with a high line ain't good it seems.  A few things for Klopp to ponder.

Sadio Mane is the most important player in the league because he's integral to Liverpool's high pressing as well as being a phenomenal player in every other respect

I heard Jonathan Wilson say that even Virgil van Dijk would look shit in the Chelsea team because they don't know how to play a high line as a team

I guess we got a taste of that today when things went badly wrong for Liverpool

Shit happens though