Quote
Checkpoint death report welcomed
The family of a County Tyrone man shot dead 20 years ago has welcomed the findings of a report by the PSNI's Historical Enquiries Team.
Aidan McAnespie was shot by a soldier as he walked through a border checkpoint at Aughnacloy in 1988.
The soldier claimed that his hands were wet, causing him to accidentally fire the machine-gun when he was moving inside a sanger.
The report called this the "least likely version" of what happened.
The 24-year-old Aughnacloy man had just passed through the border checkpoint in the village on his way to a Gaelic football match when he was hit by a bullet.
Forensic evidence suggested the fatal shot ricocheted off the road.
The soldier was charged with manslaughter, but this was later withdrawn.
Mr McAnespie's niece, Una McCabe, said the family will continue to search for the truth.
"The search will continue to go on and continue," she said.
"That involves asking the Irish government to release the information on the whole Crowley Report (an investigation by Deputy Garda Commissioner Crowley into the shooting) to the family and going back to the Ministry of Defence to ask what actually did happen."
The MoD said it had co-operated with the HET inquiry and understands that this did not uncover any new evidence that would warrant further investigation.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/northern_ireland/7471825.stm
There's a better version in today's Irish News if someone could post it.
Inquiry team cast doubts on 'accidental' killing by army By Staff reporter
25/06/08
DETECTIVES yesterday challenged British army claims that the shooting of a man at a heckpoint on the border was accidental. Aidan McAnespie was killed by a ricochet when shots were fired from an army sangar near the Co Tyrone village of Aughnacloy in 1988.
Yesterday investigators from the Historical Enquiries Team (HET) threw a spotlight on the controversial case by questioning claims that the soldier involved fired the shots accidentally while moving his weapon.
Grenadier Guardsman David Holden claimed his hands were wet after cleaning his post and he had accidentally fired his machine gun as he moved it.
The soldier was charged with manslaughter but the Director of Public Prosecutions later withdrew this and the shooting was declared an accident.
The McAnespie family never accepted the ruling and yesterday welcomed the HET findings.
The report found: "In the final analysis, the HET is of the view that, whatever the truth of the matter in this case, it is unlikely that the GPMG [General Purpose Machine Gun] was discharged in the circumstances or in the manner described by Guardsman Holden."
The HET test-fired a GPMG and found that: "Activating the trigger required having a firm grip on the pistol grip and squeezing the trigger until it activated.
"It was found to be difficult and required considerable force to activate the trigger without having the hand firmly gripped around the pistol grip."
The HET said the "wet hands" scenario was difficult to reconcile with the timing of the cleaning duties.
Investigators also questioned the army scenario, suggesting the great distance between the soldier Mr McAnespie threw doubt on the claims of accidental shooting.
The McAnespie family said the HET had questioned "the likelihood of an accidental random discharge striking the roadway only a few feet behind what would be, from the vantage point of the machine gun post, a miniscule figure at a distance of 283.4m".
"We welcome the fact that the HET has highlighted the glaring inconsistencies in the official version of events," Mr McAnespie's sister Elish said.
"Though we do not believe that we can find justice through the criminal justice system, we have attained some measure of truth – truth for Aidan, truth for us as a family and truth for the wider community who supported us and never believed the official story.
"We have never believed that Aidan died as the result of a series of random disconnected coincidences."
The shooting came after 24-year-old Mr McAnespie had made numerous allegations of security force harassment at the checkpoint where he believed soldiers suspected he was an IRA member.
He passed the checkpoint every day on his way to work at a food processing plant in the Republic and on the day of the shooting he was visiting a GAA ground.
Mr McAnespie raised his harassment allegations in the media and his death was condemned by the then Catholic primate Cardinal Tomas O Fiaich and senior members of the GAA.
The HET found that the soldier was not questioned until 24 hours after the event and forensic experts did not examine the scene until the day after the shooting.
The family also said they were disappointed and frustrated that the Irish government had not allowed them to read a Garda report on the shooting.
"[The HET] report vindicates our family and our long campaign for justice," Ms McAnespie said.
"This report should be read by the British and Irish governments, the chief constable, the prosecution service, the Ministry of Defence and the relevant authorities in the FSNI (Forensic Science Northern Ireland)."
It seems The Free State have withheld and continute to withhold information from the McAnespie family for nearly 30 years.
https://player.fm/series/14264/195774343
Quote from: Il Bomber Destro on January 14, 2018, 10:20:05 AM
It seems The Free State have withheld and continute to withhold information from the McAnespie family for nearly 30 years.
https://player.fm/series/14264/195774343
Irish govt also have info withheld for years regarding the Miami show band massacre as well.
Nothing out of line with how the Free State establishment parties have aided the coverup of British State terrorism in Ireland.
British soldier charged with manslaughter but I'm still not clear what actually happened reading reports which suggests there were three shots one of which hit Aiden but was a ricochet???
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2023, 11:34:32 AM
British soldier charged with manslaughter but I'm still not clear what actually happened reading reports which suggests there were three shots one of which hit Aiden but was a ricochet???
Automatic weapon hence 3 shots?
Yeah, so did the soldier just point the gun at him and let a few shots off to scare him or what?
Is this a real question? Will you please do some research on the topic before submitting a post like that? He was certainly trying to do more than scare him!
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2023, 11:48:24 AM
Yeah, so did the soldier just point the gun at him and let a few shots off to scare him or what?
Pointed the gun, more like took aim and fired at an innocent civilian. One that had been victim of regular British army harassment and intimidation. They even said beforehand they'd kill him and they did.
Like every other soldier that has shot dead an innocent civilian, he received little more than a slap on the wrist at the time. To add that little bit more insult to injury, sentencing has been deferred until
next week. I half expect some health complications will emerge with Holden between now and then.
Let's not forget they held on to the chunk of flesh where the bullet entered his body, which would have died what angle the bullet came in at.
That part of the body was never released.
Quote from: general_lee on January 27, 2023, 01:22:52 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2023, 11:48:24 AM
Yeah, so did the soldier just point the gun at him and let a few shots off to scare him or what?
Pointed the gun, more like took aim and fired at an innocent civilian. One that had been victim of regular British army harassment and intimidation. They even said beforehand they'd kill him and they did.
Like every other soldier that has shot dead an innocent civilian, he received little more than a slap on the wrist at the time. To add that little bit more insult to injury, sentencing has been deferred until
next week. I half expect some health complications will emerge with Holden between now and then.
Protesting outside court where some poor family had a member of their family killed for no reason. Sickens my head.
Yeah I wouldn't be surprised by a health thing either.
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2023, 11:48:24 AM
Yeah, so did the soldier just point the gun at him and let a few shots off to scare him or what?
WTF Juice, Have you been living under a rock?
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 27, 2023, 01:39:08 PM
Let's not forget they held on to the chunk of flesh where the bullet entered his body, which would have died what angle the bullet came in at.
That part of the body was never released.
That's grotesque.
Quote from: seafoid on January 27, 2023, 04:45:26 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on January 27, 2023, 01:39:08 PM
Let's not forget they held on to the chunk of flesh where the bullet entered his body, which would have died what angle the bullet came in at.
That part of the body was never released.
That's grotesque.
Would be more accurate to say removed and dumped without informing deceased family.
Absolutely disgusting.
Quote from: Feckitt on January 27, 2023, 02:40:34 PM
Quote from: thejuice on January 27, 2023, 11:48:24 AM
Yeah, so did the soldier just point the gun at him and let a few shots off to scare him or what?
WTF Juice, Have you been living under a rock?
Sorry, maybe in a way yes I have because I don't have time for news these days but I'm trying to understand what the judgement/the court is saying the soldier is supposed to have done. The ruling suggests it was unintended. I'm not asking what actually happened but what story the court is telling is the truth and how did they come up with manslaughter.
I remember when Aidan McAnespie was murdered near a football pitch where he was minding his own business. Some deaths in the North then stuck out.
Just reading the BBC article regarding Aidan's murder
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-64413266
He said the defendant had broken two "golden rules":
Never aim a weapon unless one intends to fire
Never increase the risk of negligent discharge
They were never finished aiming their guns at people. Anyone who lives here will tell you that.
I don't believe Holden will ever see a day behind bars.
People who get weapons training in any military or police force would have it drilled into them to be completely paranoid about aiming their weapon carelessly.
It's a complete no-no. You'd wonder what daft notion this soldier took.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2023, 11:32:48 PM
People who get weapons training in any military or police force would have it drilled into them to be completely paranoid about aiming their weapon carelessly.
It's a complete no-no. You'd wonder what daft notion this soldier took.
Daft notion ??
The only daft notion here would be to accept as any way factual the whole accidental discharge / ricochet/ wet hands nonsense that's been weaved and spun for 3 decades now by the Brit's and their collaborators in the free state permanent government.
This Holden p***k ( if he even was the trigger man , which I personally doubt) won't see a day of jail time I'd say - I do hope I am wrong but if you were putting money on the outcome it'll be some wishy washy wrist slap due to ill health , too long ago , etc etc
The whole f**king thing is a circus
My thoughts are with the family , a few of which I know very well , good honest people .
The BBC still have it on their page
' Mr McAnespie was known to security forces as a "person of interest" - an IRA suspect '
Despite not a shred of evidence to prove anything. He was an innocemt fella going to a football match who was murdered. Not only that but he had been told he was going to be shot and killed by members of the same Army, who he previously and had made a complaint about. The army subsequently followed through with his murder and covered it up for decades.
What chance of justice?
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2023, 11:32:48 PM
People who get weapons training in any military or police force would have it drilled into them to be completely paranoid about aiming their weapon carelessly.
It's a complete no-no. You'd wonder what daft notion this soldier took.
If a soldier in Denmark shot someone dead there would be outrage. But the North in the 80s/early 90s was not like Denmark. It was more like Israel where people are shot dead regularly because of impunity and because there is no military discipline.
Quote from: The Subbie on January 28, 2023, 01:50:10 AM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on January 27, 2023, 11:32:48 PM
People who get weapons training in any military or police force would have it drilled into them to be completely paranoid about aiming their weapon carelessly.
It's a complete no-no. You'd wonder what daft notion this soldier took.
Daft notion ??
The only daft notion here would be to accept as any way factual the whole accidental discharge / ricochet/ wet hands nonsense that's been weaved and spun for 3 decades now by the Brit's and their collaborators in the free state permanent government.
This Holden p***k ( if he even was the trigger man , which I personally doubt) won't see a day of jail time I'd say - I do hope I am wrong but if you were putting money on the outcome it'll be some wishy washy wrist slap due to ill health , too long ago , etc etc
The whole f**king thing is a circus
My thoughts are with the family , a few of which I know very well , good honest people .
Correct. That's what makes it all the more sickening for me.
No justice like British justice! >:(
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2023, 01:31:25 PM
No justice like British justice! >:(
Shocking but unsurprising
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
In layman terms how come? Genuine question.
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
I thought he might have served some time, a year at least. I knew the sentence would be minimal, but why suspended?
Quote from: square_ball on February 02, 2023, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
In layman terms how come? Genuine question.
Id be interested in knowing the answer also
The final nail in the coffin to opposition to the Brits legacy bill
It's clearly not working. Putting these poor fellas who served their country through the courts , blah blah blah
Quote from: tonto1888 on February 02, 2023, 02:14:24 PM
Quote from: square_ball on February 02, 2023, 01:53:51 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
In layman terms how come? Genuine question.
Id be interested in knowing the answer also
Plenty of people do time for causing death by dangerous driving. Is a heavy machine gun less lethal than a car? Kill someone by accident driving a car and do jail. Kill someone "by accident" with a heavy machine gun and walk free!!! Bollocks.
Sentencing of historic offences is notoriously difficult its why a lot of countries have statute of limitations for criminal offending. Save for relatively minor matters we don't. It's further complicated by Article 6 of the ECHR which guarantees everyone a right to a speedy trial.
When you come to sentence in such a scenario you have to factor these things in. You also have to factor in the impact of the passage of time on the offender. Often they are a very different person at the time of sentencing than when they committed the offence.
You also have to take into account what has happened in society since the offence and in particular you have to look at the impact of things like the early release provisions of the GFA.
When you factor all that in you've to try and arrive a sentence that would have been correct at the time but could be adjusted to take into account all that's happened since.
So with Manslaughter, given how wide the sentencing range is for that is only highly likely but not inevitable that a person convicted of such an offence would receive an immediate custodial sentence. Now in the present case given the high level of wrecklessness/culpability a custodial sentence was deemed to be appropriate and rightly so. So the first question is what would be the appropriate sentence for that offence. The second question then becomes how do you deal with the factors outlined above. Well you've two choices. Either a reduce the sentence or b determine this to be an exceptional case to warrant suspending the sentence.
The problem with a is if you apply a proper reduction to take into account the factors outlined above you probably arrive at a very short sentence. Certainly one of two years or less. If there's no need to protect the public immediate sentences that are that short are generally not encouraged because it makes light of the very serious nature of the offending. Furthermore because of when the offence was committed it would have been subject to 50% remission. So a very short custodial sentence would likely not have been correct. It would have been little punishment would have done little to rehabilitate the offender and would if anything likely been derisory in the eyes of the victims family.
That really only leaves you with option b which is to suspend the sentence. Which has been done in this case for I think the maximum time (need to check that as o can't remember when the limit on suspensions changed). That probably meets the point of sentence, punishment, rehabilitation, deterrent etc better than any other option in the circumstances. As I say it may well be unpalatable but sentencing is a very difficult art form. Not a science.
Where would lack of remorse and dishonest explanation given to the police as well as the court fall in terms of sentencing? Are aggravating factors not considered when sentencing ex-British soldiers?
I think the GFA early release of prisoners is the British Governments 'get out of jail card' for want of a better word!
"Why should our boys go to jail whilst ex IRA men walk free" etc.
Unfortunately I can never see the bereaved families getting justice from the British govt.
Never.
They are an absolute shower of b**tards that the sooner we are away from the better :(
Quote from: general_lee on February 02, 2023, 02:52:54 PM
Where would lack of remorse and dishonest explanation given to the police as well as the court fall in terms of sentencing? Are aggravating factors not considered when sentencing ex-British soldiers?
They would have been aggravating features considered when arriving at the starting point for the sentencing.
You would get the feeling that for some a UK court/judge and the UK government are one and the same.
Professional observers seem to think the Judge acquitted himself well in this case
Very thorough explanation David thanks
Quote from: RedHand88 on February 02, 2023, 03:34:15 PM
Very thorough explanation David thanks
Thanks David,
I see Colum Eastwood has a post up about this, and he is asking people to be mindful of the McAnespie family when commenting on the case. My first reaction like most people was that this is a load of bollocks, but the McAnespie family have secured a conviction. They should be commended for their tenacity in this case, and I would hate for them to think that it wasn't worth their while. I am sure they knew exactly what to expect from the sentencing.
Family member on Ulster radio tonight on way home from work, he's said hes got his justice and happy in a sense that they stuck at it and got a conviction, it'll never bring him back though.
If a family member can be satisfied then that's all that matters.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2023, 07:18:47 PM
Family member on Ulster radio tonight on way home from work, he's said hes got his justice and happy in a sense that they stuck at it and got a conviction, it'll never bring him back though.
If a family member can be satisfied then that's all that matters.
In that case we can all be satisfied
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
How do you arrive at that opinion??
Edit - just had a speed read of your detailed response above - not fully onboard with your rationale vis a vis the passage of time diminishing the act and it's consequences but need to read again
The problem with all these cases are, they are so long ago, and it's not asked why (who did the blocking) these cases were not investigated properly. If the ceasefire was bck in 1994, why were cold case not looked at again nearer the time of the offence.
The Omagh Boom inquiry will throw up some uncomfortable readings when it will be eventually completed, I know its still a raw issues for many and some on here also, but there has been some split in the camp of survivors and families with regards to how it will be centered on failings
Quote from: The Subbie on February 02, 2023, 11:54:23 PM
Quote from: David McKeown on February 02, 2023, 01:39:38 PM
Suspended sentence I see. As unpalatable as it was it's legally the correct result.
How do you arrive at that opinion??
Edit - just had a speed read of your detailed response above - not fully onboard with your rationale vis a vis the passage of time diminishing the act and it's consequences but need to read again
Sorry I perhaps wasn't clear. I'm not saying it was my rationale nor am I suggesting whether it's right or wrong I am trying to explain as best I can a complicated legal process which I have tried as best I can to simplify