26 County General Election 2020

[Lar Naparka]

I'd give Leo the nod for his performance last night but only because he was there for the taking. Michéal had his past as a FF minister to to defend so he was going ltg to get some flak over this but he was out of office for eight years and Leo's failings are in here here and now so I felt he'd be more vulnerable to accusations of incompetence than Martin before the gig began.
Varadker survived and I'd mark that down as a plus.
I think the FG spin doctors had done a better job of batin' a bit of gravitas and pseudo sincerity and humility into their man than their counterparts did with their man.
I think Martin hadn't expected Leo to stand up to him and thought that by highlighting the government's failings, Leo would be there for the taking.
In the event, Leo survived albeit with a few proverbial kicks up the ass. He can feel slightly more relieved by his performance than Michéal can with his.

[Rossfan]

Martin is going to be on a sticky wicket attacking the Government on their record since 2016 .
He had the Government in the palm of his hand and could have forced them to take action on anything he or FF were "concerned" about.
SF sound like the infamous FF manifesto of 1977 which gave us the massive 1980s recession- increase spending and reduce taxes.

[five points]

Sinn Fein need to be on these debates so they can be asked about their populist policies. I specifically want to know how they will fund these 100,000 social houses. At say 100 grand a house, that's an astronomical cost to taxpayer. They signed off on the social housing for O'Devanney Gardens without any plan for how they would be funded and then washed their hands of the fiasco when this emerged. We have seen enough Fianna Fáil populist policies bankrupt the country to go down that road again. The solution to housing for young people is staring us in face. Young people want to live in urban areas, near culture and city life. That's a worldwide trend. We have to be like New York and start allowing high rise rental units, with a law requiring x amount be for families on lower income at lower prices. Let private developers build, let them make money. Government has no business being property developers, building shit, and fleecing the taxpayer, the minority paying for everything.

Problem is developers are back fleecing people on the housing market. Way to approach this is by making planning consents conditional on 20% affordable housing.

Until there's enough supply to meet demand, developers will fleece people wherever they can. The fact that there's damn all housebuilding outside the larger cities, and not enough within them, suggests it's not that attractive a proposition in most cases.

[magpie seanie]

Sinn Fein need to be on these debates so they can be asked about their populist policies. I specifically want to know how they will fund these 100,000 social houses. At say 100 grand a house, that's an astronomical cost to taxpayer. They signed off on the social housing for O'Devanney Gardens without any plan for how they would be funded and then washed their hands of the fiasco when this emerged. We have seen enough Fianna Fáil populist policies bankrupt the country to go down that road again. The solution to housing for young people is staring us in face. Young people want to live in urban areas, near culture and city life. That's a worldwide trend. We have to be like New York and start allowing high rise rental units, with a law requiring x amount be for families on lower income at lower prices. Let private developers build, let them make money. Government has no business being property developers, building shit, and fleecing the taxpayer, the minority paying for everything.

If you build those social houses you'll generate rent from those who take them up. Unlike say rolling out broadband everywhere costing billions and not actually owning it after that. Just because it's not free market economics doesn't mean it doesn't add up or make sense. We need to look at countries where solutions are working - Finland a great example. The only country in the EU where homelessness is decreasing and in fact it's almost eliminated. They come up with solutions based on needs because they're capable of independent thought. We're very much at the "four legs good, two legs bad" level of analysis unfortunately.

[five points]

If you build those social houses you'll generate rent from those who take them up.

The experience to date in this country and elsewhere is that the rent the State receives from social housing is rarely if ever enough to meet the cost of maintaining them long-term. Forget altogether about repaying the original investment.

That's why council estates across the land are riddled with empty derelict properties and others heading in the same direction.

[magpie seanie]

If you build those social houses you'll generate rent from those who take them up.

The experience to date in this country and elsewhere is that the rent the State received from social housing is rarely if ever enough to meet the cost of maintaining them long-term. Forget altogether about repaying the original investment.

That's why council estates across the land are riddled with empty derelict properties and others heading in the same direction.

Why is this though? Is it because those living in them were unemployed or not paid enough for the work they did? At least we have a minimum, if not a living wage now. I'd also suggest a good % of social houses should be rent to buy to give people that chance to own their home one day. The "experience to date" in this country is a pretty poor foundation for any economic discussion I'd suggest also though I wouldn't be so sure you're assertion is correct.

[TheOptimist]

Martin is going to be on a sticky wicket attacking the Government on their record since 2016 .
He had the Government in the palm of his hand and could have forced them to take action on anything he or FF were "concerned" about.
SF sound like the infamous FF manifesto of 1977 which gave us the massive 1980s recession- increase spending and reduce taxes.

This one often amuses me. Not saying you, but there is sometimes an attitude, SF policies sound like FF policies that failed so people should vote for FF instead!

[five points]

Why is this though? Is it because those living in them were unemployed or not paid enough for the work they did? At least we have a minimum, if not a living wage now. I'd also suggest a good % of social houses should be rent to buy to give people that chance to own their home one day. The "experience to date" in this country is a pretty poor foundation for any economic discussion I'd suggest also though I wouldn't be so sure you're assertion is correct.

Why weren't the properties maintained?

Pick your answer:

1. their owners (the councils) couldn't afford to.
or
2. they didn't bother to.

though I wouldn't be so sure you're assertion is correct.

Which assertion?

[andoireabu]

Sinn Fein need to be on these debates so they can be asked about their populist policies. I specifically want to know how they will fund these 100,000 social houses. At say 100 grand a house, that's an astronomical cost to taxpayer. They signed off on the social housing for O'Devanney Gardens without any plan for how they would be funded and then washed their hands of the fiasco when this emerged. We have seen enough Fianna Fáil populist policies bankrupt the country to go down that road again. The solution to housing for young people is staring us in face. Young people want to live in urban areas, near culture and city life. That's a worldwide trend. We have to be like New York and start allowing high rise rental units, with a law requiring x amount be for families on lower income at lower prices. Let private developers build, let them make money. Government has no business being property developers, building shit, and fleecing the taxpayer, the minority paying for everything.

Problem is developers are back fleecing people on the housing market. Way to approach this is by making planning consents conditional on 20% affordable housing.

How much does a developer make per house or a site they develop?

[five points]

How much does a developer make per house or a site they develop?

As much as they can after paying everyone.

20 years ago it was a lucrative trade and we had houses built everywhere. Around here there hasn't been one built anywhere for 10 or 12 years and you'd pay an arm and a leg to rent a place if you can find one. Something's gone haywire.

[weareros]

Martin is going to be on a sticky wicket attacking the Government on their record since 2016 .
He had the Government in the palm of his hand and could have forced them to take action on anything he or FF were "concerned" about.
SF sound like the infamous FF manifesto of 1977 which gave us the massive 1980s recession- increase spending and reduce taxes.

This one often amuses me. Not saying you, but there is sometimes an attitude, SF policies sound like FF policies that failed so people should vote for FF instead!

That's how the Irish people operate. Austerity usually has to be carried out by a coalition of FG and Labour, and much needed social legislation (divorce, abortion). This ends up alienating a huge amount of people. FF swoop in with their populist policies and people forget the recession they caused in the 1980s that caused 250,000 to emigrate with high unemployment, and similar a decade ago. The previous party get little thanks. Ruari Quinn in last rainbow coalition brought in the corp tax that revolutionised employment in this country yet Labour are still being punished for trying to clean up the mess FF created after inheriting a great economy from that coalition. SF are now out there with the populist policies. Pension age 65 is typical. Every developed country is going to need to raise this age. People are living longer and funding an aging population will be one of the biggest challenges of our time. These are facts that we need to embrace but gets turned into hysteria.

[five points]

That's how the Irish people operate. Austerity usually has to be carried out by a coalition of FG and Labour, and much needed social legislation (divorce, abortion). This ends up alienating a huge amount of people. FF swoop in with their populist policies and people forget the recession they caused in the 1980s that caused 250,000 to emigrate with high unemployment, and similar a decade ago. The previous party get little thanks.

It was Charlie Haughey's FF who implemented austerity in 1987 after FG/Labour had sat in government for 5 years and refused to tackle a big public spending deficit problem (which admittedly had been caused originally by Jack Lynch and worsened by Haughey).

Ruari Quinn in last rainbow coalition brought in the corp tax that revolutionised employment in this country yet Labour are still being punished for trying to clean up the mess FF created after inheriting a great economy from that coalition

Quinn merely updated Corporation Tax that was previously 10% for manufacturing companies and widened it to all companies. Quinn also introduced the Seaside Resorts tax incentive, the first of the big tax incentives that fuelled the bubble, but he's much too shy to claim credit for that.

SF are now out there with the populist policies. Pension age 65 is typical. Every developed country is going to need to raise this age. People are living longer and funding an aging population will be one of the biggest challenges of our time. These are facts that we need to embrace but gets turned into hysteria.

On this we are agreed.

[magpie seanie]

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/taxes-stem-irelands-rising-inequality-claims-esri/ar-BBZeLCm?ocid=ientp

Our economic model is a total mess. We should be looking at decreasing inequality still further with our taxation regmie, not making it worse.

[five points]

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/money/news/taxes-stem-irelands-rising-inequality-claims-esri/ar-BBZeLCm?ocid=ientp

Twenty-something leftie civil servant in "no tax cuts for coping families!" shocker.

[magpie seanie]

Martin is going to be on a sticky wicket attacking the Government on their record since 2016 .
He had the Government in the palm of his hand and could have forced them to take action on anything he or FF were "concerned" about.
SF sound like the infamous FF manifesto of 1977 which gave us the massive 1980s recession- increase spending and reduce taxes.

Language is so important here. FF's manifesto didn't cause the worldwide recession. The policies they implemented left the country badly exposed to this recession. Typically in this country we spend "when we have it" and cut when we don't - the exact opposite of what public policy should be.