AIQF Armagh v Monaghan

[tbrick18]

Some dive by McManus at the end, but once again, Armagh stupid fouling haunts them again,

Armagh can't tackle.
They go in to nail the man every time then complain about having yellow cards issued.
Serious chip on the shoulder with them and completely over estimate their own ability.

Derry know where we are, no over hyped expectations and a degree of humbleness about the players. The vast majority of fans are realistic about where we are too. Night and day between the teams and quality of players in my opinion. The ulster final had derry rocked leading into it, went down  to 14 after a black card just before full time and Armagh still didn't push derry. I think they scored 1pt in that black card period.
If a team and management can't learn from that it speaks volumes as they repeated it against monaghan.

Fair play monaghan, never say die attitude has to be admired and some talented footballers. Shrewd manager too.
Fully deserved to win in normal time.

[Walter Cronc]

Just saw mcgeeney interview, thought he was going to cry.
Some bit if yapping.

Plain and simple, Armagh are not good enough.
Mcgeeney isn't good enough.
Players don't have the strength of character to hold the nerve in a penalty shoot out. Couldn't even beat a derry team that lost their manager a few days before an Ulster final.

I don't buy this talk about them having better players than they show.
Forker is a top player, after that nobody you could rely on.
As for Rian, Armagh played better without him in their last game. He gets 1 point from play at the end of extra time yesterday, good point it was but you need more from a supposed star.

What it has shown again is that there is nothing between the Ulster counties. Derry, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone are all around a very similar level. Donegal were in that category before the start of this season but dropped off a bit this year. The margins are very fine in games between those sides but none of them are at the elite AI winning level.

No it doesn't. Derry are unbeaten against the listed and are back to back ulster champions, therefore by logic are better than them! This during the upheaval of losing their manager mid season.

[mackers]

OK lads. Hands up.  Derry are miles better than Armagh. Probably by about 10 points.  Christ on a bike.

[general_lee]

OK lads. Hands up.  Derry are miles better than Armagh. Probably by about 10 points.  Christ on a bike.

Listen to these big Derry supporters ffs. I've probably been to more Derry games than the half of them. This time 5 years ago if Derry were playing in their back gardens they'd have drawn the curtains.

[Walter Cronc]

OK lads. Hands up.  Derry are miles better than Armagh. Probably by about 10 points.  Christ on a bike.

Listen to these big Derry supporters ffs. I've probably been to more Derry games than the half of them. This time 5 years ago if Derry were playing in their back gardens they'd have drawn the curtains.

Hmmm are you lot ones to really talk about bandwagoners. Suppose when your clubs roll over year on year and get their asses handed to them by Cross there's not much else to watch!

[AustinPowers]

Just saw mcgeeney interview, thought he was going to cry.
Some bit if yapping.

Plain and simple, Armagh are not good enough.
Mcgeeney isn't good enough.
Players don't have the strength of character to hold the nerve in a penalty shoot out. Couldn't even beat a derry team that lost their manager a few days before an Ulster final.

I don't buy this talk about them having better players than they show.
Forker is a top player, after that nobody you could rely on.
As for Rian, Armagh played better without him in their last game. He gets 1 point from play at the end of extra time yesterday, good point it was but you need more from a supposed star.

You must have been some player in your pomp! No player or manager goes out to lose or play badly. Everyone can have an off day. Managers make mistakes but they are putting in the time and effort.

"For the love of the game"

McGeeney is a genius. To get that bunch of, lets face it, ordinary footballers to compete at that level is some achievement. They're a mid table division 2 or top 2 division 3 side at best. Hats off to the man. He's worked tirelessly with players who are a lot less talented than himself and got some great performances out of them, even if they did ultimately lose.

Contrast that with Tyrone. AIs hanging out of the players and management back pockets like nothing normal and they were absolutely humiliated. Even the Kerry boys felt embarrassed for them after Saturday.

When a team is finished it's finished. Tyrone will be back
It's funny that Armagh won their first  Sam before Tyrone but that Tyrone developed a culture of excellence and Armagh didn't.

It's not like Armagh  dropped off a cliff after  2002. They were  a blocked ball away from 2 in a row (would the  player making the block have   been there had marsden  stayed on ?). They blew it  in 04  but  nothing could  separate Armagh and  Tyrone in 2005. So you can't  really say Armagh  did everything wrong  after  2002 and Tyrone  did everything right. It could easily have  went the other way - Armagh with 3 AI's , Tyrone with none.

Tyrone underage  and schools are doing  well, but Armagh  won an u21 and minor AI after 02 as well. Although  recently it seems things  aren't as  rosey

Armagh were a penalty  away from a semi  on Saturday, but  now McGeeney is useless, Armagh are chokers , the county board are a disgrace , the u6's have won feck all...  and vinny Corey is  doing wonderful things , Monaghan have  their whole setup  working brilliantly from  the  u6's up, amazing work. Armagh win on sat , and Corey  would have been patted  on the back  saying ach sure, you've only a small population, fair play to ye for  getting this far. And McGeeney would  be ultra defensive, cautious manager , but by feck he knows how to grind out a win with  the  limited resources  available to him. Fair fecks

Margins in football  are so fine.  It's unfair to  denegrate  a whole county's setup  because of  a missed penalty or a bad refereeing  decision , and it's  a  bit mad to say another county is doing  everything right  because of  the same

[yellowcard]

Just saw mcgeeney interview, thought he was going to cry.
Some bit if yapping.

Plain and simple, Armagh are not good enough.
Mcgeeney isn't good enough.
Players don't have the strength of character to hold the nerve in a penalty shoot out. Couldn't even beat a derry team that lost their manager a few days before an Ulster final.

I don't buy this talk about them having better players than they show.
Forker is a top player, after that nobody you could rely on.
As for Rian, Armagh played better without him in their last game. He gets 1 point from play at the end of extra time yesterday, good point it was but you need more from a supposed star.

What it has shown again is that there is nothing between the Ulster counties. Derry, Monaghan, Armagh and Tyrone are all around a very similar level. Donegal were in that category before the start of this season but dropped off a bit this year. The margins are very fine in games between those sides but none of them are at the elite AI winning level.

No it doesn't. Derry are unbeaten against the listed and are back to back ulster champions, therefore by logic are better than them! This during the upheaval of losing their manager mid season.

Prior to losing Gallagher I would have said Derry were marginally better than the rest but they've drawn with Armagh and Monaghan since then so it's hard to say there is that much difference in Derry, Monaghan and Armagh. It's still not fully clear what the impact of losing their manager has been and Meenagh has done a good job of steadying the ship but the biggest test will be the next match against Kerry. I'd like to see Derry and Monaghan both win their semi finals but I just can't see it. The same would have applied if Armagh had gone through, they are all a level below those 2 sides imo.     

[Armamike]

This game was a carbon copy of the Ulster final. Eeerily similar. Same style of play from us and the opponent, same black card incident, penalties and same outcome. I don't think it's a coincidence or bad luck that we've found ourselves in two penalty situations this year, and one last year. We haven't been able to finish the job in normal time. I've found the lack of goals very frustrating. We created goal chances on Saturday but again couldn't take one. Monaghan didn't create any, unless you count the one half chance that blazed over the bar. In these kinds of matches, we take one of those chances and it's probably enough to get the win. We just are lacking that level of certainty and decision making in front of goal. It shows itself in the option to take a fisted point rather than throw a dummy and side step the keeper. We see it too when the ball is laid off to another forward who inevitably gets smothered by the keeper and gets blocked, or has to take the fisted point. It's hurt us badly this year and last. I haven't heard this mentioned much in all the post match analysis this year and last. The area that the Sunday game focused on, and all the podcasts will too probably, is the sitting deep tactic. We just don't do it very well. Sitting deep is fine in itself if it leads to turnovers and counters. But looking at the Derry and Monaghan games, we got very few turnovers, and of the ones we do, we tend not to translate them into counters that lead to scores because we can't counter quickly enough or have an out ball for us up the pitch. We don't get turnovers because we sit off too much. In the games I've been at this year, Derry, Westmeath and Monaghan all had the time to pretty much do what they pleased with their possession building out from the back and when getting into our half. If they wanted to keep the ball for 2, 3.4 minutes and then decide to take a shot, they could, and we were relying on them kicking it wide by that stage. Sitting deep keeps out the goals, but it doesn't prevent the other side kicking points. It's a tactic that's not working for us as we've been beaten (Derry/Monaghan) or been very close to losing (Westmeath). Gaelic football is about intensity and passion or as it used to be called, getting stuck in. Standing off isn't an option. Looking at Kerry against Tyrone, they sat deep, but they made bloody sure they were breathing down their necks, getting a hand or foot in to get the ball away and making life very uncomfortable for the Tyrone forwards who were playing with their back to goal and not able to get turned. Contrast that to us sitting, 2 or more yards off and letting them play in front of us. The other thing I thought hurt us badly against Monaghan was just not enough movement from our forwards when we were trying to break them down. There were times when we needed somebody to break away from their marker and try a run in behind into space for a quick ball over the top of the defender. It just wasn't happening enough.

All in all a very frustrating feel to the season and a sense that we've let key matches slip through our fingers. A lot of unknowns now looking forward to next year. Unfortunately unless you're a Kerry or Dublin most seasons end in pain for their supporters. Our's is at the higher end of the pain spectrum because of the nature of the defeats and the feeling that there is an Ulster in this team. I don't think Derry and Monaghan are particularly great (in terms of AI potential) or any better than us, and the semi finals will be as far as they can go. But the nagging feeling will be that we could and should have beaten both of them this year.

[general_lee]

OK lads. Hands up.  Derry are miles better than Armagh. Probably by about 10 points.  Christ on a bike.

Listen to these big Derry supporters ffs. I've probably been to more Derry games than the half of them. This time 5 years ago if Derry were playing in their back gardens they'd have drawn the curtains.

Hmmm are you lot ones to really talk about bandwagoners. Suppose when your clubs roll over year on year and get their asses handed to them by Cross there's not much else to watch!

Not sure Walt, we've had 3 different winners for the last three years so who knows?

[Angus MacGyver]

Some dive by McManus at the end, but once again, Armagh stupid fouling haunts them again,

Jarly Og Burns- Dive for a pointed free
Aidan Forker- Dive for a pointed free
Stefan Campbell- Dive for a black card
Conor McManus- knows the drill

[Angus MacGyver]

This game was a carbon copy of the Ulster final. Eeerily similar. Same style of play from us and the opponent, same black card incident, penalties and same outcome. I don't think it's a coincidence or bad luck that we've found ourselves in two penalty situations this year, and one last year. We haven't been able to finish the job in normal time. I've found the lack of goals very frustrating. We created goal chances on Saturday but again couldn't take one. Monaghan didn't create any, unless you count the one half chance that blazed over the bar. In these kinds of matches, we take one of those chances and it's probably enough to get the win. We just are lacking that level of certainty and decision making in front of goal. It shows itself in the option to take a fisted point rather than throw a dummy and side step the keeper. We see it too when the ball is laid off to another forward who inevitably gets smothered by the keeper and gets blocked, or has to take the fisted point. It's hurt us badly this year and last. I haven't heard this mentioned much in all the post match analysis this year and last. The area that the Sunday game focused on, and all the podcasts will too probably, is the sitting deep tactic. We just don't do it very well. Sitting deep is fine in itself if it leads to turnovers and counters. But looking at the Derry and Monaghan games, we got very few turnovers, and of the ones we do, we tend not to translate them into counters that lead to scores because we can't counter quickly enough or have an out ball for us up the pitch. We don't get turnovers because we sit off too much. In the games I've been at this year, Derry, Westmeath and Monaghan all had the time to pretty much do what they pleased with their possession building out from the back and when getting into our half. If they wanted to keep the ball for 2, 3.4 minutes and then decide to take a shot, they could, and we were relying on them kicking it wide by that stage. Sitting deep keeps out the goals, but it doesn't prevent the other side kicking points. It's a tactic that's not working for us as we've been beaten (Derry/Monaghan) or been very close to losing (Westmeath). Gaelic football is about intensity and passion or as it used to be called, getting stuck in. Standing off isn't an option. Looking at Kerry against Tyrone, they sat deep, but they made bloody sure they were breathing down their necks, getting a hand or foot in to get the ball away and making life very uncomfortable for the Tyrone forwards who were playing with their back to goal and not able to get turned. Contrast that to us sitting, 2 or more yards off and letting them play in front of us. The other thing I thought hurt us badly against Monaghan was just not enough movement from our forwards when we were trying to break them down. There were times when we needed somebody to break away from their marker and try a run in behind into space for a quick ball over the top of the defender. It just wasn't happening enough.

All in all a very frustrating feel to the season and a sense that we've let key matches slip through our fingers. A lot of unknowns now looking forward to next year. Unfortunately unless you're a Kerry or Dublin most seasons end in pain for their supporters. Our's is at the higher end of the pain spectrum because of the nature of the defeats and the feeling that there is an Ulster in this team. I don't think Derry and Monaghan are particularly great (in terms of AI potential) or any better than us, and the semi finals will be as far as they can go. But the nagging feeling will be that we could and should have beaten both of them this year.

The simple fact is that Armagh's 'great forward line' is bit of a media creation. Campbell- flashes of class but goes walkabout when the chips are down. Murnin- a bit too nice. Jemar Hall and Jason Duffy won't trouble the scoreboard. Rian O'Neill- 1 point from play the last day. Tubritt- anonymous when man marked. Grugan, a bit like Murnin good footballer but will he really win you the big games? These are all good mid-range players but no superstars among them. That's the truth of it.
 

[thewobbler]

It's a hot take Angus and it might even be true. But what you define as "mid-range" is surely the best you can expect from a forward if they don't see the ball.

[mackers]

This game was a carbon copy of the Ulster final. Eeerily similar. Same style of play from us and the opponent, same black card incident, penalties and same outcome. I don't think it's a coincidence or bad luck that we've found ourselves in two penalty situations this year, and one last year. We haven't been able to finish the job in normal time. I've found the lack of goals very frustrating. We created goal chances on Saturday but again couldn't take one. Monaghan didn't create any, unless you count the one half chance that blazed over the bar. In these kinds of matches, we take one of those chances and it's probably enough to get the win. We just are lacking that level of certainty and decision making in front of goal. It shows itself in the option to take a fisted point rather than throw a dummy and side step the keeper. We see it too when the ball is laid off to another forward who inevitably gets smothered by the keeper and gets blocked, or has to take the fisted point. It's hurt us badly this year and last. I haven't heard this mentioned much in all the post match analysis this year and last. The area that the Sunday game focused on, and all the podcasts will too probably, is the sitting deep tactic. We just don't do it very well. Sitting deep is fine in itself if it leads to turnovers and counters. But looking at the Derry and Monaghan games, we got very few turnovers, and of the ones we do, we tend not to translate them into counters that lead to scores because we can't counter quickly enough or have an out ball for us up the pitch. We don't get turnovers because we sit off too much. In the games I've been at this year, Derry, Westmeath and Monaghan all had the time to pretty much do what they pleased with their possession building out from the back and when getting into our half. If they wanted to keep the ball for 2, 3.4 minutes and then decide to take a shot, they could, and we were relying on them kicking it wide by that stage. Sitting deep keeps out the goals, but it doesn't prevent the other side kicking points. It's a tactic that's not working for us as we've been beaten (Derry/Monaghan) or been very close to losing (Westmeath). Gaelic football is about intensity and passion or as it used to be called, getting stuck in. Standing off isn't an option. Looking at Kerry against Tyrone, they sat deep, but they made bloody sure they were breathing down their necks, getting a hand or foot in to get the ball away and making life very uncomfortable for the Tyrone forwards who were playing with their back to goal and not able to get turned. Contrast that to us sitting, 2 or more yards off and letting them play in front of us. The other thing I thought hurt us badly against Monaghan was just not enough movement from our forwards when we were trying to break them down. There were times when we needed somebody to break away from their marker and try a run in behind into space for a quick ball over the top of the defender. It just wasn't happening enough.

All in all a very frustrating feel to the season and a sense that we've let key matches slip through our fingers. A lot of unknowns now looking forward to next year. Unfortunately unless you're a Kerry or Dublin most seasons end in pain for their supporters. Our's is at the higher end of the pain spectrum because of the nature of the defeats and the feeling that there is an Ulster in this team. I don't think Derry and Monaghan are particularly great (in terms of AI potential) or any better than us, and the semi finals will be as far as they can go. But the nagging feeling will be that we could and should have beaten both of them this year.

That sort of honest in-depth analysis doesn't cut it on the board any more Mike.  We're fecking useless, over-hyped media myths.

[tonto1888]

Some dive by McManus at the end, but once again, Armagh stupid fouling haunts them again,

Jarly Og Burns- Dive for a pointed free
Aidan Forker- Dive for a pointed free
Stefan Campbell- Dive for a black card
Conor McManus- knows the drill

Can't remember the other 2 but Campbell didn't dive. He was tripped. Should not have been a black card tho

[tonto1888]

Some dive by McManus at the end, but once again, Armagh stupid fouling haunts them again,

Was it a dive or a foul?