Down Club Hurling & Football

[manwithnoplan]

The debate around reserve/thirds teams entering Div 4 is fairly interesting, but probably the most obvious immediate issue would be that the recent restructuring has 13 teams in division 4 so it would need some serious thought in to how this league works as any more teams makes for a very long season. Would you go for 2 groups of 8 (if 3 reserve sides enter) or 4 groups of 4 and some sort of play off system for promotions. It was split this year for the first part of the season so maybe something based on how that worked. Though was it a success in terms of keeping teams interested for the full year? It might require some sort of seeding to ensure there isn't a team getting heavily beaten in a group, or all the strong teams aren't on one side of a draw etc.

Or even a one way league, I think that system was used a few years ago if I'm not mistaken?

[Truth hurts]

If we could get 7 of the bigger clubs to put in a B team to a Div5 it might work. Top 13 would not be enough though. It would need to be 20 at least.

The problem here isn't about whether this is a practical solution. it's a cultural problem.

Getting a group of players, administrators and spectators to go "away" on a Friday night when the first team are at home would take some getting used to. It would require riding out some bad times for a year or two before it becomes normalised. And I don't think people in this era have the patience to ride it out.

Outsider buttin' in here, in Tyrone All-County Football League games involving thirds teams are played on a Saturday afternoon unless their corresponding first team isn't playing that same weekend where instead they play at the same time as all other fixtures in their division/grade. Rarely do such clubs have their first & third teams playing at the same time.

How many of the senior panels caanot play thirds?

[manwithnoplan]

If we could get 7 of the bigger clubs to put in a B team to a Div5 it might work. Top 13 would not be enough though. It would need to be 20 at least.

The problem here isn't about whether this is a practical solution. it's a cultural problem.

Getting a group of players, administrators and spectators to go "away" on a Friday night when the first team are at home would take some getting used to. It would require riding out some bad times for a year or two before it becomes normalised. And I don't think people in this era have the patience to ride it out.

Outsider buttin' in here, in Tyrone All-County Football League games involving thirds teams are played on a Saturday afternoon unless their corresponding first team isn't playing that same weekend where instead they play at the same time as all other fixtures in their division/grade. Rarely do such clubs have their first & third teams playing at the same time.

Fairly practical solution, though in Down there would be a clash with soccer for many of the div 4 teams (probably moreso East Down), and there could be a reluctance then for these clubs to facilitate the change of fixture from the usual Friday night.

[Johnnysboys]

False, Cross II have only won the JFC once, in 2002. Cullyhanna II reached the final in 2016.
[/quote]

My apologies - so the fact one team has won this championship once and two teams have played in the final surely backs up the fact that the teams around them improved both at senior level and underage to have a sustained period where clubs reserves would not dominate them.

Top 13 in senior can't play seconds
Top 10 in seconds can't play thirds

So 23 players effectively can't play 3rds

[Truth hurts]

If we could get 7 of the bigger clubs to put in a B team to a Div5 it might work. Top 13 would not be enough though. It would need to be 20 at least.

The problem here isn't about whether this is a practical solution. it's a cultural problem.

Getting a group of players, administrators and spectators to go "away" on a Friday night when the first team are at home would take some getting used to. It would require riding out some bad times for a year or two before it becomes normalised. And I don't think people in this era have the patience to ride it out.

Outsider buttin' in here, in Tyrone All-County Football League games involving thirds teams are played on a Saturday afternoon unless their corresponding first team isn't playing that same weekend where instead they play at the same time as all other fixtures in their division/grade. Rarely do such clubs have their first & third teams playing at the same time.

How many of the senior panels caanot play thirds?

Unlike in Down, reserve football is tied to first team performance in Tyrone. Senior & Reserve games are played as double headers i.e. such fixtures on Sundays are/were 2.15pm reserve & 3.45pm senior.

To enter a thirds team in the Tyrone ACFL, you must...

* Declare a panel of 40 players whom are only permitted to play in your first team or reserve team (this list of 40 also includes 12 players whom aren't allowed to play in their reserve or "second" team, assuming these teams play in Division 1 & Division 1 reserve)

* If you also wish to enter a fourth team that is your corresponding reserve team for for thirds team i.e "thirds reserves", you must also declare additional players that can't play for this team (this depends on the Division you play in - in Division 3 it's 9 players, Division 2 it's 10. Since no thirds team in recent history in Tyrone has played in Division 2, it's essentially nine players).

* If a player from outside the initial list of 40 players mentioned above plays for the first team or their corresponding reserve/"second" team, they are no longer eligible to play for the thirds or thirds reserve/"fourth" team(s) for the remainder of that playing year.

* If a player on the list of 40 players mentioned above has not played for either the first team or reserves/"seconds" before 1st July of the competition year, they may be allowed to regrade to play in the thirds or thirds reserves/"fourth" team(s) with permission from the Tyrone CCC.

40 players in a lot greater than 23, very interesting and I dont think many clubs could do that

[Downtothewire]

If we could get 7 of the bigger clubs to put in a B team to a Div5 it might work. Top 13 would not be enough though. It would need to be 20 at least.

The problem here isn't about whether this is a practical solution. it's a cultural problem.

Getting a group of players, administrators and spectators to go "away" on a Friday night when the first team are at home would take some getting used to. It would require riding out some bad times for a year or two before it becomes normalised. And I don't think people in this era have the patience to ride it out.

Outsider buttin' in here, in Tyrone All-County Football League games involving thirds teams are played on a Saturday afternoon unless their corresponding first team isn't playing that same weekend where instead they play at the same time as all other fixtures in their division/grade. Rarely do such clubs have their first & third teams playing at the same time.

How many of the senior panels caanot play thirds?

Unlike in Down, reserve football is tied to first team performance in Tyrone. Senior & Reserve games are played as double headers i.e. such fixtures on Sundays are/were 2.15pm reserve & 3.45pm senior.

To enter a thirds team in the Tyrone ACFL, you must...

* Declare a panel of 40 players whom are only permitted to play in your first team or reserve team (this list of 40 also includes 12 players whom aren't allowed to play in their reserve or "second" team, assuming these teams play in Division 1 & Division 1 reserve)

* If you also wish to enter a fourth team that is your corresponding reserve team for for thirds team i.e "thirds reserves", you must also declare additional players that can't play for this team (this depends on the Division you play in - in Division 3 it's 9 players, Division 2 it's 10. Since no thirds team in recent history in Tyrone has played in Division 2, it's essentially nine players).

* If a player from outside the initial list of 40 players mentioned above plays for the first team or their corresponding reserve/"second" team, they are no longer eligible to play for the thirds or thirds reserve/"fourth" team(s) for the remainder of that playing year.

* If a player on the list of 40 players mentioned above has not played for either the first team or reserves/"seconds" before 1st July of the competition year, they may be allowed to regrade to play in the thirds or thirds reserves/"fourth" team(s) with permission from the Tyrone CCC.

40 players in a lot greater than 23, very interesting and I dont think many clubs could do that
[Sounds like a good idea, might cut down the amount of conceded game in reserve leagues]

[GAA Madness]

Crazy that Burren ratified the same management team for next season, probably gave them more money too, after their lacklustre season. Burren probably have everything they need to win championships and leagues every year but lack the drive and steelyness to do so. Facilities are top notch, which plenty other division 1 teams in Down would kill for, so no excuses for them. Some clubs in division 1 don't have any facilities, believe it or not....

[Truth hurts]

Crazy that Burren ratified the same management team for next season, probably gave them more money too, after their lacklustre season. Burren probably have everything they need to win championships and leagues every year but lack the drive and steelyness to do so. Facilities are top notch, which plenty other division 1 teams in Down would kill for, so no excuses for them. Some clubs in division 1 don't have any facilities, believe it or not....

Burren won a senior league title beating Kilcoo in the final, they were beaten by a very good Warrenpoint team in the QF of the senior championship after extra time. It was by no means a disastrous year for Burren, The country and its granny are looking for managers, You would go a long way finding anyone better than McCorry and Adams at this stage of the year. So its a wise decision by the Oligarchs in keeping them. They should win county u20 as well so all bodes well for the future.

I don't get the facilities bit as looking at division 1 all clubs have access to two pitches , lights, indoor hall and a gym so although Burren have a great set up I don't think it gives them that much of an edge.

[Johnnysboys]

Burren won a senior league title beating Kilcoo in the final, they were beaten by a very good Warrenpoint team in the QF of the senior championship after extra time. It was by no means a disastrous year for Burren, The country and its granny are looking for managers, You would go a long way finding anyone better than McCorry and Adams at this stage of the year. So its a wise decision by the Oligarchs in keeping them. They should win county u20 as well so all bodes well for the future.

I don't get the facilities bit as looking at division 1 all clubs have access to two pitches , lights, indoor hall and a gym so although Burren have a great set up I don't think it gives them that much of an edge.
[/quote]

Burren won a senior league - they have never ever ever talked about or aspired to win senior leagues. They beat Kilcoo in the final and thought for sure they had the championship in the bag. Surely with all the underage success they have had in the last decade they don't need mccorry or Adam's there - there's bound to be coaches galore within the club that could take that group of players to senior championship glory. But that wouldn't satisfy the money men nor get their offspring onto the team..
winning county u20 means nothing - it's that same good group that we have been talking about for the last 5 years - still only 4/5 of them have made the next step to senior football. I don't think they expect many more to make the step up either. The natives wouldn't be impressed with the style of football being played (as seen on Facebook message) so the management start under pressure to change mindsets straight away.. interesting times ahead..

[Truth hurts]

Burren won a senior league title beating Kilcoo in the final, they were beaten by a very good Warrenpoint team in the QF of the senior championship after extra time. It was by no means a disastrous year for Burren, The country and its granny are looking for managers, You would go a long way finding anyone better than McCorry and Adams at this stage of the year. So its a wise decision by the Oligarchs in keeping them. They should win county u20 as well so all bodes well for the future.

I don't get the facilities bit as looking at division 1 all clubs have access to two pitches , lights, indoor hall and a gym so although Burren have a great set up I don't think it gives them that much of an edge.

Burren won a senior league - they have never ever ever talked about or aspired to win senior leagues. They beat Kilcoo in the final and thought for sure they had the championship in the bag. Surely with all the underage success they have had in the last decade they don't need mccorry or Adam's there - there's bound to be coaches galore within the club that could take that group of players to senior championship glory. But that wouldn't satisfy the money men nor get their offspring onto the team..
winning county u20 means nothing - it's that same good group that we have been talking about for the last 5 years - still only 4/5 of them have made the next step to senior football. I don't think they expect many more to make the step up either. The natives wouldn't be impressed with the style of football being played (as seen on Facebook message) so the management start under pressure to change mindsets straight away.. interesting times ahead..
[/quote]

Style of football changes, Burren v the Point was a game of cat and mouse and could have went either way, the Point were as defensively set up as Burren. The natives are going to have to get used it as the days off knocking 50/50 Hail Marys into Tom Fegan are 40 years gone past.

[GAA Madness]

Crazy that Burren ratified the same management team for next season, probably gave them more money too, after their lacklustre season. Burren probably have everything they need to win championships and leagues every year but lack the drive and steelyness to do so. Facilities are top notch, which plenty other division 1 teams in Down would kill for, so no excuses for them. Some clubs in division 1 don't have any facilities, believe it or not....

Burren won a senior league title beating Kilcoo in the final, they were beaten by a very good Warrenpoint team in the QF of the senior championship after extra time. It was by no means a disastrous year for Burren, The country and its granny are looking for managers, You would go a long way finding anyone better than McCorry and Adams at this stage of the year. So its a wise decision by the Oligarchs in keeping them. They should win county u20 as well so all bodes well for the future.

I don't get the facilities bit as looking at division 1 all clubs have access to two pitches , lights, indoor hall and a gym so although Burren have a great set up I don't think it gives them that much of an edge.

Of course it gives them an edge, the game has moved on and the gym is no doubt a part of it. As a casual observer of Down football, I don't think the likes of Warrenpoint, Bryansford and Rostrevor can compete with the facilities of Burren, and I may be wrong but I don't think Clonduff even have a gym and certainly do not have a sports hall

[Mourne Red]

Crazy that Burren ratified the same management team for next season, probably gave them more money too, after their lacklustre season. Burren probably have everything they need to win championships and leagues every year but lack the drive and steelyness to do so. Facilities are top notch, which plenty other division 1 teams in Down would kill for, so no excuses for them. Some clubs in division 1 don't have any facilities, believe it or not....

Burren won a senior league title beating Kilcoo in the final, they were beaten by a very good Warrenpoint team in the QF of the senior championship after extra time. It was by no means a disastrous year for Burren, The country and its granny are looking for managers, You would go a long way finding anyone better than McCorry and Adams at this stage of the year. So its a wise decision by the Oligarchs in keeping them. They should win county u20 as well so all bodes well for the future.

I don't get the facilities bit as looking at division 1 all clubs have access to two pitches , lights, indoor hall and a gym so although Burren have a great set up I don't think it gives them that much of an edge.

Of course it gives them an edge, the game has moved on and the gym is no doubt a part of it. As a casual observer of Down football, I don't think the likes of Warrenpoint, Bryansford and Rostrevor can compete with the facilities of Burren, and I may be wrong but I don't think Clonduff even have a gym and certainly do not have a sports hall

Clonduff have a gym not sure about sports hall.. L'Island we've a gym but none of the others above TH mentioned yet. Few years away from those being built.

[Gaelforce123]

Interesting Burren have kept the management on after almost everyone in the county thought that relationship was dead. Looking through the set ups in Down there appears to be alot of 'outside the county' men. Are we not developing good coaches in Down? Same names seem to jump around each year and makes you wonder are there no fresh faces pushing these Men out of positions and who are they with or do clubs want these men who have been around the block several times

[Truth hurts]

A source told me in the Bayside catch yesterday evening that Ronan McCartan is the new manager of Dundrum.

[terrifictommy]

That was announced a couple weeks ago on twitter.