'Splitting into two groups of 16 is inevitable for football'

[Syferus]

That's a problem syferus.....some way more amateur than others......but most lads will not make a good living out of the gaa....even in Dublin.....

Yeah, exactly. But if we want a fair competition the very first thing that needs to be looked at is the funding each senior team has, even before format changes are talked about. It's a bit like changing the seating arrangements in a house that's on fire otherwise.

[joemamas]

Zulu you are 100% correct......plus we have to remember this is an amateur game......no player can make a living out of it.......you can't transfer to a better team.......it's areal conundrum

Is it?

That is pretty funny.

Pathetic, but funny.


https://www.sportsjoe.ie/gaa/dublin-backroom-team-picture-98181

[Esmarelda]

There's been so much discussion on this topic, both on this board and elsewhere, that I think a few things can be almost agreed upon:

-If we were starting from scratch, we wouldn't devise a system based on the provincials.
-A graded system, whatever it may be, would seem like a sensible option.
-Any system needs to be included in a calendar that meets the needs of the clubs and club players.

The problem, as I see it, is culture. Antrim are used to being allowed to attempt to win the Ulster Championship and the Sam Maguire. Any move to take either away is likely be resisted by all GAA people in the county; players and supporters in particular. The result is lack of interest in the competition entered, players not committing and fans not attending.

The GPA members confirmed their opposition to such a move only last year. Would board members be happy for a tiered-system to be introduced if it meant their county not entering the race for Sam?

The question is, how do you change this general view? If the footballers of the likes of Leitrim, Carlow, Wicklow and Waterford prefer the current system to the tiered one, I think we have a long way to go in getting the changes that are being suggested by many in the media.

Nobody has offered the players a tiered system like they have at club level so we don't know their views. People talk about the tommy murphy not being a success but that was a competition for division 4 teams knocked out of the championship. Therefore it wasn't seen as a championship competition because you only got into it when you were knocked out of the main championship. ie it was a competition for drop outs. In a tiered system you have a senior championship, an intermediate championship and a junior championship. Teams have a chance of winning an all Ireland championship and an all Ireland medal.

And a chance to play at Croke Park which is not to be sniffed at. They aren't without their problems but I think the Meagher, Rackard and Ring Cups have been generally successful in hurling and it's quite a major thing to win one of them. I would say for the very reason you cited that they are championships in their own right.

I don't know what way the GPA worded the question to their members but the feedback was that there was no appetite for a secondary competition. We can only guess at whether they'd go for a club style championship.

[Fuzzman]

I think Zulu's point above is excellent and hits the nail right on the head.
It's pretty obvious that the game has changed a lot and the top 6 teams in the country are quite a bit ahead of the rest, especially since the new defensive systems that these teams play make it very hard for the so called smaller team to get scores.

Whilst teams might not want to be in a lesser competition and be at least in with a chance of winning Sam, most enjoy going on a run through the back door. Look at Derry last year. They got hockeyed again to Tyrone who they used to have such a competitive rivalry with for years but now they go into these games knowing they have little chance and so it's a poor match. However, once they got into the qualifiers their mood lifted and got back some belief in themselves and went on to beat both Cavan and Meath & almost made it to a quarterfinal.
I'd say a lot of their supporters enjoyed the season maybe a lot better than some of the Tyrone, Donegal or Kerry fans did.
As a Tyrone fan, the Derry game was poor and boring, the Cavan game was exciting I agree but the Ulster final was terrible to watch although rewarding to win of course. The Mayo match again was poor to watch but at least we played 3 teams who were in the same division as us unlike Kerry.

The Kerry fans got to an AI semifinal at a canter beating Clare twice and Tipp once and then losing out to the Dubs as usual. If they had 3 or games against teams in their own division it would be a lot more interesting for them.

We seem to place far to much emphasis on trying to help the weaker teams do better and hope for the big shock performance.
This is why I'm quite interested in seeing how next year's group stages go as we will at least see more of the big teams playing each other.

[Blowitupref]

We already have the best teams and the so called weaker counties playing off against each other in different sections. It's called the league and arguably the best format the GAA have and why more effort isn't put in to making the league more important than changing the championship for the sake of changing I'll never know.

The All Ireland championship is a cup competition and the beauty of any cup competition is the underdog story. The super 8 will sadly end the opportunity of any underdog (Fermanagh 04,Wexford 08, Tipperary last summer) reaching All Ireland semi again.

[Kickham csc]

We already have the best teams and the so called weaker counties playing off against each other in different sections. It's called the league and arguably the best format the GAA have and why more effort isn't put in to making the league more important than changing the championship for the sake of changing I'll never know.

The All Ireland championship is a cup competition and the beauty of any cup competition is the underdog story. The super 8 will sadly end the opportunity of any underdog (Fermanagh 04,Wexford 08, Tipperary last summer) reaching All Ireland semi again.

Totally agree

Are we the only sporting organization in the world that discounts the importance of league games to the extent of "6 months training for 1 game", no you played in provincial cup games (3), and the league (7-8) and then played in a knockout championship"

The championship should be knock out, and if a county wants to improve, focus on youth

[Zulu]

That's all well and good lads but we've 130 years of tradition so the only way of increasing the value of the league is to link it to the championship. Games played in muck and shite with teams taking it semi seriously is not providing players with games. The league has grown in importance almost in spite of the GAA.

We have all these grounds around the country yet we leave most of them idle for the majority of the year. All IC footballers should be getting at least 8 games which are part of the All Ireland and all counties should be hosting a minimum of 5 or 6 games at the local grounds each year.

I can only speak for myself but I can't get excited about the games going on now. In both codes it doesn't really matter if there's an odd upset or two, the only games that really matter are those from QF onwards.

[Rossfan]

Based on this year's final League placings (Promoted teams jump relegated teams)
Senior
Dublin Kerry Donegal Monaghan
Mayowestros Tyrone Galway Kildare
Cavan Ros Meath Cork

Inter
Clare Down Louth Tipp
Derry Fermanagh Armagh Sligo
Offaly Longford Westmeath Wexford

Junior
Laois Antrim Carlow Leitrim
Limerick Waterford Wicklow London

What about Kilkenny New York.

[AZOffaly]

That's all well and good lads but we've 130 years of tradition so the only way of increasing the value of the league is to link it to the championship. Games played in muck and shite with teams taking it semi seriously is not providing players with games. The league has grown in importance almost in spite of the GAA.

We have all these grounds around the country yet we leave most of them idle for the majority of the year. All IC footballers should be getting at least 8 games which are part of the All Ireland and all counties should be hosting a minimum of 5 or 6 games at the local grounds each year.

I can only speak for myself but I can't get excited about the games going on now. In both codes it doesn't really matter if there's an odd upset or two, the only games that really matter are those from QF onwards.

That's because of the qualifiers. As soon as they came in the intensity and championship cut was missing. As much as anything, the qualifiers have been a major problem for the Provincial Championships. Offaly v Westmeath will be greatly contested, cut and thrust etc. But if it was straight knockout, then it would be another notch up.

[Zulu]

That's true of course but the old knockout system was massively flawed and would be a disaster for the GAA in today's 24 hour sports coverage world. The provincials worked because they were regional cup competitions within a cup competition, they aren't anymore and no longer work. We need a modern competition structure for a modern sporting landscape, if we don't adjust soon we may find ourselves in trouble. The GAA are lucky in that there isn't a real domestic sporting competitor as we are making an ass of our shop window competitions.

[Rossfan]

AZ,
Qualifiers are total knock out yet the games get very poor attendances.
Last year's figures were inflated by Mayowestros' presence from Round 2.
Problem with Offaly v Westmeath is we (the other 30) know that it is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things as neither of them will win Leinster or the AI.
Only games involving the top 5 or 6 will generate outside interest as people will be curious as to how the bigger teams are shaping up new players etc.

[themac_23]

Get rid of the pre season competitions i.e. McKenna Cup, start the leagues in Jan, instead of 3 large divisions split them in half geographically, run the games off with top 2 in each group then going to semi final and bottom 2 into relegation playoff. then bring provincial championships forward which are stand alone and not related to All ireland, once these comps are completed 3 tiered all ireland starts as straight knock out. Example from this year

Div 1 North
Cavan
Tyrone
Donegal
Monaghan

Div 2 South
Dublin
Kerry
Roscommon
Mayo

Thats 3 group games, then 1 semi final and possible 1 final, Max 5 league games.

The thinking too their is no more keeping up with the joneses, teams who are in the Junior don't have to do the 5 gym sessions in the morning to keep up with dublin, they can get their best players out because there isn't the same amount of commitment for little chance of reward, gives smaller counties something to build towards and also counties who are in transition a chance to build, same as at club level.

[Keyser soze]

I think some people are viewing this in the wrong way. The vast majority of players in every sport around the world happily play without a great chance of winning things. Most players simply want regular games against opponents they can compete against. If they get that they know they may win something but at least if they don't there is still merit in their season. We aren't giving that to our IC players which is why our format is inherently flawed.

Whatever the best format is, it isn't this one because it doesn't give players regular, structured games against teams of similar ability. If that changes then there will be merit in playing IC football irrespective of your teams ability.

We already have a competition like that, it's called the league. Championship however is a knockout competition where the strongest team wins by knocking the other teams out. How any GAA player coach or supporter can fail to understand the difference in these 2 things I don't know. 

[Zulu]

How anyone can fail to understand that that's not the point is utterly stunning. Of course we all know what the league is, I didn't think anyone would fail to follow that.

[lenny]

I think some people are viewing this in the wrong way. The vast majority of players in every sport around the world happily play without a great chance of winning things. Most players simply want regular games against opponents they can compete against. If they get that they know they may win something but at least if they don't there is still merit in their season. We aren't giving that to our IC players which is why our format is inherently flawed.

Whatever the best format is, it isn't this one because it doesn't give players regular, structured games against teams of similar ability. If that changes then there will be merit in playing IC football irrespective of your teams ability.

We already have a competition like that, it's called the league. Championship however is a knockout competition where the strongest team wins by knocking the other teams out. How any GAA player coach or supporter can fail to understand the difference in these 2 things I don't know.

And at club level we also have leagues at senior, intermediate and junior, and championships at the same levels. They work brilliantly. There is absolutely no reason they wouldn't work at county.