Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

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Spike

Quote from: paddyjohn on March 06, 2019, 11:11:08 AM
Quote from: BrendanAntrim on March 06, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Maybe the more expensive option would make it more attractive to play for the county.

How? What could be done that isn't being done? Really? I can think of absolutely nothing and certainly nothing that would stop a fella committing. Have you any examples of how spending more money on the team set up would attract the mythical better players?

Maybe going for the more expensive option would show the county are ambitious instead of appointing the same sort of manager that we always go for, a cheap option.

I'm not having a pop at Lenny here either. He man enough to put his name forward for the job.

Lenny is a bit of a victim of past regimes. He ticks all the boxes for the typical Antrim manager that has brought zero success down for generations.  Quite simply, after years of service, how could we expect players to turn up for more of the same guff in Div 4?  Things wont ever change until the county board out their hand in their pocket, provide for and make it attractive to play for Antrim again.  How long will it take for Fitz, McBride and the Murrays to get fed up and decide to concentrate on their family lives and club careers than with antrim county?   It must be fairly disheartening for those boys when you play local club sides with better players than your county teammates. 

cfclg

Its the county boards fault  >:(
Its Lenny's fault  >:(
Its the stay away players fault  >:(

What in the name of fcuk is wrong with us in this county with the endless blame game.

Perhaps, as a whole, the football (and indeed players) in this county are not as good as we would like to believe. Back to basics and improve fundamental coaching at undergrad and 'build' better players. Its a long term strategy and you won't see any fruits of it for 5-10 years (at least).

NAG1

Quote from: Spike on March 06, 2019, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: paddyjohn on March 06, 2019, 11:11:08 AM
Quote from: BrendanAntrim on March 06, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Maybe the more expensive option would make it more attractive to play for the county.

How? What could be done that isn't being done? Really? I can think of absolutely nothing and certainly nothing that would stop a fella committing. Have you any examples of how spending more money on the team set up would attract the mythical better players?

Maybe going for the more expensive option would show the county are ambitious instead of appointing the same sort of manager that we always go for, a cheap option.

I'm not having a pop at Lenny here either. He man enough to put his name forward for the job.

Lenny is a bit of a victim of past regimes. He ticks all the boxes for the typical Antrim manager that has brought zero success down for generations.  Quite simply, after years of service, how could we expect players to turn up for more of the same guff in Div 4?  Things wont ever change until the county board out their hand in their pocket, provide for and make it attractive to play for Antrim again.  How long will it take for Fitz, McBride and the Murrays to get fed up and decide to concentrate on their family lives and club careers than with antrim county?   It must be fairly disheartening for those boys when you play local club sides with better players than your county teammates.

Quote from: cfclg on March 06, 2019, 12:32:06 PM
Its the county boards fault  >:(
Its Lenny's fault  >:(
Its the stay away players fault  >:(

What in the name of fcuk is wrong with us in this county with the endless blame game.

Perhaps, as a whole, the football (and indeed players) in this county are not as good as we would like to believe. Back to basics and improve fundamental coaching at undergrad and 'build' better players. Its a long term strategy and you won't see any fruits of it for 5-10 years (at least).

If any one wants to talk about the state of the current county team they need only look back to last year's county final.

One of the worst displays of football and coaching from both sides. Both set ups being heavily invested in and yet come up with that unbelievable spectacle of a game.

Supposedly the two best teams in the county and neither could muster 5 minutes of actual football in the game. The problem runs a lot deeper than who the current county manager is.

Loughshore Green

Quote from: Spike on March 06, 2019, 12:20:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 05, 2019, 09:23:24 PM
Quote from: Spike on March 05, 2019, 02:12:41 PM
Quote from: belfastsaff on March 04, 2019, 09:15:38 AM
Surly Lenny cannot get another year ? Yes it might not all be his fault but he has to take some of the blame and without naming players some of them shouldn't be n the squad never mind the starting 15. He might not have the best players available but its quite obvious he doesn't know how to manage these players as a group and having them play together - also his tactics stink 2 sweepers and a 'blocker' I've never heard the likes of it no sympathy for him if he is going to try and play football like that. I went over to watch them against the POLY and made my views clear we wouldn't get anywhere and I was right.


Lenny will get another year coz he's cheap and he cant get relegated.

Maybe someone at county board level should ask themselves why the best players in the county are not offering themselves to play for the county. Damning indictment of  the set up.  As PJ just said 'Do what you've always done, and you'll get what you always got'

Who are these better players Spike? Have they refused to play? Wasted their chance to play for their county?

Teams/players  are doing the usual nowadays, if we don't like the set up they don't bother.

If they (whoever they are, as I'm keen to know) turned up and committed would we be any better?

Quick test MR - run your eye down both the Cargin & St Galls teamsheets from the 2018 county semi final and tell me what players are better than what we have in the county squad at the moment. 
Quick hint - a combo of non-county players from those two club sides sides would beat our current county team. Our county champions representation is nothing short of shameful from the county boards perspective.  where else would it be allowed to happen? why is it always the stay-aways fault?

Sure the Antrim County Footballer advert sells itself:

1) Guaranteed Division 4 football every year - and that's a promise!
2) Same day return on Air conditioned bus for cold February trips to Waterford
3) Early wake up call for day trips. *02 to 02 Networks Only*
4) Expenses treated on a 'paid when paid' basis
5) No overseas trips - help the environment!
6) If injured on duty, we will help you fill your forms out so you can claim off clubs insurance!
7) Free tickets to national league Division 4 games. (Limited to 2 per player) *may be subject to checks*
8) Guaranteed visit to two away County Grounds each championship season *Note this may increase if win in qualifiers. Unlikely*
9) Guaranteed West Belfast Manager with no intercounty experience - You learn as he learns - double bonus! One on one coaching as we limit amount of 'hanger ons' like physios, doctors, assistant managers, coaches, Trainers etc etc
10) To progress you train on your own - save the County Board money so they can invest in a new stadium / stand / county ground / addiction recovery / other ventures undisclosed. Individual training helps build mental strength!
11) You can visit GAA and Antrim County's greatest White Elephant  - Dunsilly - where you can park and view (for a brief period) *stay off the grass*
12) In case it is actually used, you are entitled to a free bus ticket from Enkalon Industrial Estate Car Park to Dunsilly if crowd more than 10 people.  *u16 matches only*
13) One free pass each season to visit the wild grasslands of Casement. *No photography allowed* *No friends or family allowed*
14) Free Soup and Sandwich with every away trip *water excluded* *if under 18, sandwich excluded*

Best post in a long time....

Milltown Row2

Best post? f**k!

Talking about dads army match with players who have been there done it with Antrim and have no intention of playing again and with the effort they put into the cause means they owe the county nothing.

Listing stuff that's not exactly true but sure carry on, completely delusional about what a county executive can actually afford. Paying a management team plus all your perks would cost what Spike? You seem to have a fantastically view of how the county (this country) can afford half the crap that you spelled out there.

Again list me these real available players that you keep going on about or shut up
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Spike

#16385
Just keep blaming the stay aways MR.......backing up your paymasters the establishment again.

27 and 28 year old players are dads army???    With respect, even looking at the guys in their early to mid thirties, counties like ours cant afford to let them drift away so more should be done to accomodate them.  Theyre not staying away because of the shift they put in before, they're staying away because it was rubbish before and they cant stand to.waste more of their valuable time continuing that rubbish.  Im guessing you never represented the county so you maybe dont understand whats involved.   You're 'love of the jersey is enough' stuff is 70's thinking from some genius down the casement social club.  come into this century please. Yesterdays man.

Anything ive mentioned is the MINIMUM for a county set up. We've no pitch, (actually used) centre of excellence and a manager on two bob and a free tracksuit 5 mins from casement park coz he's handy.

We're getting what we put in at the moment. Viscous cycle due to lack of investment.

Step back and look at the big picture - no ground, no actually used centre of excellence, no club ground with a stand, poor attendances, poor brand of football, poor underage teams, and div 4 football to watch......and somehow the head men in the county are blameless and its other peoples fault?

Start with some pride - thats free alongside hope and aspiration - theyre free too.  A top man to instill, drive and develop that - unfortunately he's not free

Positives are we have a large population  - somehow that needs to be dipped into and nurtured. That takes work, time, marketing  and good sense.   Antrim love trying to take cheap shortcuts and the easy road every....single....time.  That has to change.

Milltown Row2

Not blaming the stay always as such you just haven't yet mentioned any actual players who are willing to play! It's a strange one..

Also explain to us where we get the money from to transform Antrim?

Get your head out of the fiction books and deal with the reality.

Give me a list of of how we can go forward with your plans and I'll listen.

As for not playing senior county (along with 95% of the club players in the county) that means what? I did play juvenile county hurling but hey that was a hundred years ago  ;D

I've had more run ins with the county as a player and as manager so I wouldn't be high on their best friends list.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

bannside

I'd like to correct a few points that have been made here recently, and the biggest one is that the funding allocated for the running of senior football is inadequate or that the county are cheapskating in any way. That assumption is well wide of the mark. The players are exceptionally well treated and get everything inter county players are entitled to, gear, meals, travelling expenses, food, proper hotels and travel etc etc. Lenny has access to excellent "county board" support throughout, and has the team built around him (support staff) where and when he needs it. To say otherwise is cheap and unfounded, and needs challenged.

Lenny put his hand up for this gig and has got it mostly on his own terms. I've spoken to him occasionally and he bleeds Saffron like us all, and is putting in serious work behind the scenes. He has invested serious energy in this, and to be fair, the players are all in agreement that the set up is by some distance the most professional they've seen to date.

Look, every team has a bad day at the office, and hopefully Waterford was that. In Leitrim they are 5/5, promoted and there's a real buzz. We are better than them, and I've no doubt whatsoever about that. We were every bit as good as Derry all over the pitch. Both those teams are now promoted.

Having said that, last Saturday was a disaster and being 5 points up, Lenny needs to ask himself the question why he decided to throw on four rookies in the last 15 minutes where the game was lost. Definitely not his finest ever game management it needs to be said. That was a time for experienced heads to be on the pitch. Hopefully valuable lessons learnt.






Spike

#16388
MR you wont/dont listen.  You want better players for the county - go and beg and cajole cargin and st galls players to turn up. You want to see better football, go and get better managers. You want better underage players, dip your hand in your pocket and invest in coaching and facilities. The fermanaghs, leitrims, longfords, wexfords, wicklows of this world all manage to do it for at least one of their codes and we're twice the size of them!!
You're the only man on here that gets paid remuneration by the county board for services rendered - id say that tinges you with bias towards your paymasters.

BS, with respect, (and i do respect your opinion) Lenny was the cheap managerial option of the candidates that stood so please dont patronise us with all this intangible 'behind the scenes' guff and supportive board. Thats like me saying im supportive to hmrc  when i send my money to vat man on time. 

bannside

Spike I feel your hurt more than you know. Problem is we need hundreds hurting and tbh across the county there's not too many losing sleep over how our county footballers are performing.

Also, a bit of debate here (or anywhere) is worthwhile as long as it's subjective and for the right reasons. Trust me, nearly everyone that is remotely interested does consult this forum on a regular basis, so it's a reasonable platform for measured debate.

It is or will be a matter of public record that the budget for preparation of senior football is vastly improved in the last few years. YES, traditionally that was a problem, but generally there's enough in the pot now to ensure that we really can't harp on that the reason we are still underachieving is because of lack of finance. We don't have trips to La Manga or cars for each player, but all reasonable financial bases are covered.... and I'm not being patronising by pointing that out. So for now we can remove that from the list of excuses we continually churn out.

Lenny's programme and wish list wasn't coming in noticeably cheaper than the other candidates. He has a few months left this year to show us what he is building, and hopefully that's two good wins in the league and a competitive run or two in the qualifiers. In the meantime we should get behind him and ensure we all do what we can to get the county's best players out wearing Saffron.

bogieman

Spike - Reply #17687
Best post ? My bollocks !

I would think bannside is pretty close to the mark with his corrective post.

Anyways, antrim are where the are now, and that is bottom.

The main stakeholders are made up of four groups; players, management and backroom, fans and county board. During my time in antrim, the players have changed, the management has changed, the fans have dwindled, and the county board have cosmetically changed.

So for me the common denominator to the dire situation is the culture remains the same. As with most, but unfortunately not all, volunteers, credit must be given to the guys who step up to the plate at all levels within the county and club organisation. But, here's the thing, until there is a step change in culture, it will likely stay the same.

Where will the step change come from, that's like a secret any successful organisation already knows, and most folks think it can be bought; it can't for most, and there is nobody coming up from croke, and also, nobody actually wants the Midas Touch...
Most of it is called work; shoulders to the wheel, pulling on the oars, planning, organisation, management, leadership, gratitude and comradery.
The rest is a bit of magic; where from ? Je ne sais pas. Perhaps from a positive and coherent culture, where all involved retrospect instead of complaining and criticising.

When the stakeholders jell using effective teams and the "magic" formula balances, then there may be a new quantum state created with natural stoichiometry, and successful may follow.

So, ostracise the negativity, not the individuals and create positivity, it's about evolution, not revolution.
This is not Irish dancing. -RH

Kickham csc

Quote from: bannside on March 07, 2019, 10:24:34 AM
Spike I feel your hurt more than you know. Problem is we need hundreds hurting and tbh across the county there's not too many losing sleep over how our county footballers are performing.

Also, a bit of debate here (or anywhere) is worthwhile as long as it's subjective and for the right reasons. Trust me, nearly everyone that is remotely interested does consult this forum on a regular basis, so it's a reasonable platform for measured debate.

It is or will be a matter of public record that the budget for preparation of senior football is vastly improved in the last few years. YES, traditionally that was a problem, but generally there's enough in the pot now to ensure that we really can't harp on that the reason we are still underachieving is because of lack of finance. We don't have trips to La Manga or cars for each player, but all reasonable financial bases are covered.... and I'm not being patronising by pointing that out. So for now we can remove that from the list of excuses we continually churn out.

Lenny's programme and wish list wasn't coming in noticeably cheaper than the other candidates. He has a few months left this year to show us what he is building, and hopefully that's two good wins in the league and a competitive run or two in the qualifiers. In the meantime we should get behind him and ensure we all do what we can to get the county's best players out wearing Saffron.

Don't believe you can. We have improved our investment, but are we still lagging behind other counties? That's the benchmark. I know that Down's investment in the senior team has gone up in the past year. So even though they have fallen to Div 3, the county have stepped up their game in regards to support to the program. This is the  critical point. We need Antrim leading and being innovative, not being 5 years behind the rest of the country.

We need a two pronged approach. You have to start with the youth and the senior team at the same time.

We need to maximise our current league position which will give the footballers a better platform to improve the county's standing in the future. There is no reason why Antrim shouldn't be performing to the same level as Fermanagh, Sligo etc

Youth wise, we need a better development approach, one that is not a cookie cutter program, but one tailored to Antrim's needs

Spike

BS, That's fine and a measured response so thank you.

You're right also that it does turn my gut to see that Antrim team on the field, ploughing away in Div 4 and more than slightly frustrating.  I sincerely hope that the county board are backing the manager (ill take your word that they are), as they rightly should be. 

Antrim have a huge image problem at the moment, allied to their morose fortunes.  A lot of people don't, wont, cant engage with the county set up and see it as an old boys clubs, a collection of unknown average talent or a West Belfast harem with poor facilities, poor product, poor facilities and amateur set up.  Rugby and soccer are encroaching in traditional GAA areas and the line often spouted is that the facilities, organisation of matches, welfare and benefits all are on an upper level to that which the majority of Antrim clubs and county offer.  And they engage with the player and their family, make them feel wanted, whereas the GAA has an air that you're expected to do your bit 'just coz'

We have to raise our game (no pun intended), in all sectors. Antrim county needs to be the pinnacle of a players career not a box ticking exercise.  The huge visual image problems of Dunsilly and Casement need sorted. A County ground needs picked and a stand built asap whether (depending on point of view & for hurlers too) that be Dunsilly, Ballymena, Ahoghill, Cargin, St Endas, Creggan, Portglenone, Hannahstown, Dunloy or Corrigan. The debate needs to start as we cant continue looking like beggars and vagabonds.  Casement isn't just a county disgrace, its now a national disgrace.

Fundraising needs a book written about it, underage structures and a top/proven/known/successful manager are now necessities.  We're in a dangerous viscous cycle of underperformance.

The straight road isn't always the easiest way, Antrim cant afford to take shortcuts

Dunsilly King

#16393
Quote from: NAG1 on March 06, 2019, 12:34:58 PM
Quote from: Spike on March 06, 2019, 12:29:28 PM
Quote from: paddyjohn on March 06, 2019, 11:11:08 AM
Quote from: BrendanAntrim on March 06, 2019, 09:51:14 AM
Maybe the more expensive option would make it more attractive to play for the county.

How? What could be done that isn't being done? Really? I can think of absolutely nothing and certainly nothing that would stop a fella committing. Have you any examples of how spending more money on the team set up would attract the mythical better players?

Maybe going for the more expensive option would show the county are ambitious instead of appointing the same sort of manager that we always go for, a cheap option.

I'm not having a pop at Lenny here either. He man enough to put his name forward for the job.

Lenny is a bit of a victim of past regimes. He ticks all the boxes for the typical Antrim manager that has brought zero success down for generations.  Quite simply, after years of service, how could we expect players to turn up for more of the same guff in Div 4?  Things wont ever change until the county board out their hand in their pocket, provide for and make it attractive to play for Antrim again.  How long will it take for Fitz, McBride and the Murrays to get fed up and decide to concentrate on their family lives and club careers than with antrim county?   It must be fairly disheartening for those boys when you play local club sides with better players than your county teammates.

Quote from: cfclg on March 06, 2019, 12:32:06 PM
Its the county boards fault  >:(
Its Lenny's fault  >:(
Its the stay away players fault  >:(

What in the name of fcuk is wrong with us in this county with the endless blame game.

Perhaps, as a whole, the football (and indeed players) in this county are not as good as we would like to believe. Back to basics and improve fundamental coaching at undergrad and 'build' better players. Its a long term strategy and you won't see any fruits of it for 5-10 years (at least).

If any one wants to talk about the state of the current county team they need only look back to last year's county final.

One of the worst displays of football and coaching from both sides. Both set ups being heavily invested in and yet come up with that unbelievable spectacle of a game.

Supposedly the two best teams in the county and neither could muster 5 minutes of actual football in the game. The problem runs a lot deeper than who the current county manager is.

Interesting reading folks. On last years county final, it was crap. Creggan playing 3 sweepers for an entire match, even when loosing, dictated the nature of the game. Couldn't get over them standing inside the 45 in the last 15 mins when they were loosing the game. However to pick out a game and  to suggest that represents us (Antrim) is bollix, where you at the semi final when St Galls played Cargin, one of the best games of football I have seen in a long long time. Quality football from both teams. Cargin put it up to gweedore in the Ulster club, infact there were 2 in it with 3 mins to go. Dweedore eventually won it, so prespective NAG


Antrim are better than this

Milltown Row2

Quote from: Spike on March 07, 2019, 09:07:50 AM
MR you wont/dont listen.  You want better players for the county - go and beg and cajole cargin and st galls players to turn up. You want to see better football, go and get better managers. You want better underage players, dip your hand in your pocket and invest in coaching and facilities. The fermanaghs, leitrims, longfords, wexfords, wicklows of this world all manage to do it for at least one of their codes and we're twice the size of them!!
You're the only man on here that gets paid remuneration by the county board for services rendered - id say that tinges you with bias towards your paymasters.

BS, with respect, (and i do respect your opinion) Lenny was the cheap managerial option of the candidates that stood so please dont patronise us with all this intangible 'behind the scenes' guff and supportive board. Thats like me saying im supportive to hmrc  when i send my money to vat man on time.

I get expenses to referee our games, the car won't drive without fuel, but hey you're a smart guy, you'd know that.. I've no bias even with Lenny, a clubman at the wheel who was manager or our club at the time I looked after our hurlers..

I'm dealing with facts, we don't have the talent yet to compete, a young up and coming manager with the funds that were available would have not been able to entice these footballers you are going on about (or not, beingthe case)

The only bias on here is wanting to have a S/W man at the wheel, It makes no difference who's at the wheel, when Baker took the team we ad a group of lads that were at their peak, the same lads you talk about from the Galls Cargin game, what year was that?
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea