Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[grounded]

There's just a complete apathy with regards politics up North, SF are failing the nationalist community and have been doing so for about a decade now, they have sold out on any ideals for whatever populist trend has happened. They do have a lot of long term representatives though that I would have a lot of time and respect for but you can even sense they are completely and utterly disillusioned with the top brass right now.

The stoops are a quasi-unionist party, always have and always will be and then you have the unionists themselves so who do you vote for.

There is a lot of rancour with SF here among the O6 residents which is understandable.

I have to say though I find the unfiltered hatred from chaps like Owenmoresider (and other free staters) of SF and northern nationalism as utterly bizarre. a) who is he to be so opinionated on something he knows nothing about the North or the troubles and has no experience of  it and b) what triggers it? You'd imagine for the most part SF are an irrelevance down south, what is it that rankles so much hatred and bitterness from a sizable portion down there? Is it a guilty conscience about the passive role their state and government played when they left their own defenceless in a brutal sectarian state that has manifested into a defensive mode.

I really don't get it.

This is simply not true.

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

Can i add Austin Curry, but remove John Hume from that list?
       I think in any other society apart from the sectarian hole he was born into, Hume would never even have become a politician.
        He was ill suited to the sort of backstabbing and skullduggery that went on in his own party what with Mallon et al. He was a realist and not a quasi-unionist. He was/is a good man.
   

[weareros]

Not true?

Their current leader established a partnership with FF - a party which has refused to operate in the north since it's formation and which has consistently argued, regardless of the circumstances of the day, that "the time is not right" to even discuss Irish reunification. Since establishing the link with FF, Colm has been busy parroting his new master's line that "the time is not right". This is the same Colm who went into an Assembly voting pact with the UUP ("Vote Colm, get Mike!").

Their previous leader, Alasdair McDonnell, attempted to forge links with the partitionist right wing PD's and regularly invited the right-wing, borderline racist Michael McDowell to canvass with him.

Their leader before that, the poppy wearing Margaret Richie, has just sworn her allegiance to the British monarchy and now prefers to be known as Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick.

Their leader before that, Mark Durkan, last year ran for the unionist and partitionst Fine Gael in the European elections.

Their leader before that, John Hume, described the party as not nationalist, but "post-nationalist".

Their leader before that, Gerry Fitt, also swore his allegiance to the British Monarchy in return for a peerage.

Their former Deputy Leader, Seamus Mallon, recently re-appeared into the public domain to argue against the GFA provisions for a border poll to pass with a simple majority, instead arguing that there should effectively be a unionist veto.

This is a party throwing all it's eggs into the Westminster basket where it's voting record includes supporting the retention of Diplock courts, supporting a the compulsory inclusion of Irish citizens in the north on a British National Identity Register and backing a motion (just days after the 40th Anniversary of Bloody Sunday) to "salute the bravery of the armed forces serving in Afghanistan".

You could argue that is all true if you take things very literally. But the best chances of securing a United Ireland is via moderate positions and a smattering of plamás to the Unionist community. The reality is the extreme positions of Sinn Fein will never woo moderate Unionists into a United Ireland, just like the extreme views of DUP and other Unionists will never woo nationalist community in the other direction. I saw a poll fairly recently that had Leo Varadkar as the most popular "nationalist" leader in the six counties. You may see Fine Gael as Unionist (that's what I would call an extreme view) but the likes of Leo (love him or hate him), projects a more tolerant and modern view of what a United Ireland could be and that will secure moderate Unionist votes. When a border poll comes, I do hope Sinn Fein will have the good sense to sit on the sidelines just like they smartly did with Brexit. It's more moderate nationalist voices that should be left to project the vision of the New Ireland. The dogs in the street know that Seamus Mallon would jump for joy with 50%+1 for a United Ireland. But there's nothing wrong with a bit of plamás saying we really need more than that to be in favour for it to work. That kind of chat disarms Unionists. But the minute one starts shouting the other stuff from the rooftops (Hello Mary Lou) is the minute it becomes militant Orange v Green, which they love, and which they are trying to make the upcoming election about.

[armaghniac]

Fine Gael may be a somewhat partitionist party, but they are not a unionist party and standing for them to go to the European parliament is in no way comparable with taking a Peerage.
I don't agree with all his views, but in no way is  Michael McDowell a racist, in my opinion, or even a partitionist.

You could argue that is all true if you take things very literally. But the best chances of securing a United Ireland is via moderate positions and a smattering of plamás to the Unionist community. The reality is the extreme positions of Sinn Fein will never woo moderate Unionists into a United Ireland, just like the extreme views of DUP and other Unionists will never woo nationalist community in the other direction. I saw a poll fairly recently that had Leo Varadkar as the most popular "nationalist" leader in the six counties. You may see Fine Gael as Unionist (that's what I would call an extreme view) but the likes of Leo (love him or hate him), projects a more tolerant and modern view of what a United Ireland could be and that will secure moderate Unionist votes. When a border poll comes, I do hope Sinn Fein will have the good sense to sit on the sidelines just like they smartly did with Brexit. It's more moderate nationalist voices that should be left to project the vision of the New Ireland. The dogs in the street know that Seamus Mallon would jump for joy with 50%+1 for a United Ireland. But there's nothing wrong with a bit of plamás saying we really need more than that to be in favour for it to work. That kind of chat disarms Unionists. But the minute one starts shouting the other stuff from the rooftops (Hello Mary Lou) is the minute it becomes militant Orange v Green, which they love, and which they are trying to make the upcoming election about.

Not only will the extreme positions of SF never persuade anyone outside the cult, but the "right wing" policies have done a lot to make Ireland prosperous which will do more to bring about a united Ireland than SF has ever done. SF economic fairytales remain an obstacle to a united Ireland.

[uimhr ocht]

If a border poll say was called in 5 yrs time it would be interesting to see if Alliance would canvass staying in the union outwith europe or in an all ireland within the EU,personally i think they would stay in the union.

[Rossfan]

I  suspect Alliance would not take  part in a campaign for either option.

[marty34]

I voted SF last 30 years. I'm a slow learner. They are the most nasty, vile, bullying, insulting bunch. They went from putting people in bags to  just psychological bullying anyone in their community who might dare to disagree with them.

Maybe i'm misreading this, but why did you vote for them if this is your view?

I voted SF when they only got 10% of the vote. The military campaign was still in full flow. I lived in a totally militarised area of Derry where you were fully aware that you were occupied by a foreign and oppressive army. The ruc were worse. A high proportion of our street was either in the Ra, irps, stickies or at least sympathisers. It was a clannish them against us thing. Throughout this time you conditioned yourself to sort of ignore the atrocities committed by republicans as the Brits were the bigger fish that needed fríed.
As peace descended a new phenomenon occurred. Essentially the Brits bought us off. They ensured all community groups came under SF control through nepotism etc. It was the money drug that the shinners could not resist, but only they get to avail of it. An increasing percentage of party members seemed to become unable to free think, and those thst did were crushed or expelled. The party gave no free vote on abortion, they celebrated it like all ireland final. The introduced welfare reforms, they dished our SIF unfairly. They have been devisive even on the language question here in Derry. Splitting schools to ensure control away from CCC, I couid go on for hours.

The south is completely different place - times have changed completely re: issues like abortion and ssm, whatever your opinion is. North, both sides are still fundemental right wing. 

I actually agree church and schools should be seperate - too much power still at the CC. 

[marty34]

Mick Fealty hates SF so much that anything he writes about them should be discounted. His recent article and subsequent interview on Nolan this morning were car crash stuff. Even Nolan telling him he was talking crap about SF getting an easy ride. He was just completely out of his depth. A clown

He' out of his league now - tries to be relevant by being controversial.

Trying to help Dodds win nth. Belfast. He was on Nolan talking waffle.

[johnnycool]

Mick Fealty hates SF so much that anything he writes about them should be discounted. His recent article and subsequent interview on Nolan this morning were car crash stuff. Even Nolan telling him he was talking crap about SF getting an easy ride. He was just completely out of his depth. A clown

He' out of his league now - tries to be relevant by being controversial.

Trying to help Dodds win nth. Belfast. He was on Nolan talking waffle.

I'd have a wee nosey in on Slugger every now and then and I think Micks blind hatred for the Shinners is based on that a lot of his (better) contributors are all of a nationalist persuasion and he's keen to keep his blog/forum as evenly balanced as he can so that it isn't perceived to be a hotbed of nationalism.

Some unionist/loyalist contributors have already dropped off due to getting holes picked in their arguments/viewpoints.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Another boo boo in Foyle from Elisha. Last week she was slagging off Cornshell now she has been caught out saying she is bringing the Fleadh back to derry

[Applesisapples]

When you look at the mess some other political parties are in it is not surprising that SF try and control the narrative, it makes sense. Many including some on here still subscribe to the notion that unionists are still in the majority, they aren't. Whilst it provided the usual suspects with a stick to beat SF with it is not unusual for there to be uncontested elections or results not published. SF however and nationalism are always set a higher bar than unionism. Hence the allegation that South and North Belfast is sectarianism but FST is just good sense. We on the nationalist side have been, and continue to be much more sensitive to unionist feelings than is reciprocated. SF are not blemish free but neither are any of the other political parties. I welcome the publication of the results and would believe that O'Dowd would be a better Northern leader than O'Neill. They need to look at allowing more freedom to challengers rather than pretending that all are on the same page. And finally 25 years after the troubles SF are still being tarred with the SF/IRA brush and army council crap.Many current SF reps were still in nappies.

[skeog]

Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

[playwiththewind1st]

Any truth in the rumour that Mr. O'Muilleoir is going to throw his toys out of the pram & do a Prince Andrew?

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

Right fire out the list of her achievements.

Her husband attacked a pensioner, she approached them to drop charges.
2 close associates were expelled from party because they posted a photo in a hotel room at the Derry volunteers dance forgetting there was Columbian party powder on the table. She posted that the people of a working class area of Derry shoukd come to the door as it wasn't debt collectors, she lies constantly about achievements, latest being the fleadh, she is only where she is because Martina anderson is her aunt
But besides that she's dead on

[playwiththewind1st]

Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

In fairness - it's pretty difficult to see how you could be both @ the same time.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

Elisha is a fine hardworking politician who is underated by many.

In fairness - it's pretty difficult to see how you could be both @ the same time.

Exactly