The Palestine thread

[imtommygunn]

On the international thing ireland's abstaining from that human rights vote was disgusting. Britain doing it wasn't a big surprise but ireland. Could not believe it.

[seafoid]

On the international thing ireland's abstaining from that human rights vote was disgusting. Britain doing it wasn't a big surprise but ireland. Could not believe it.

I think the EU takes a consensus and then they all vote the same way.
Not surprising really. 

If the massacres continue for another 2 or 3 weeks you'll probably see different voting results.

[seafoid]

Rabbi David Seth Kishner at Stand with Israel rally in NY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v4smlsZ3QQ

"Palestinians who voted for Hamas are combatants who deserve to be targeted by Israel" he says

There is no law in this conflict. There never is where Israel is concerned.

[imtommygunn]

On the international thing ireland's abstaining from that human rights vote was disgusting. Britain doing it wasn't a big surprise but ireland. Could not believe it.

I think the EU takes a consensus and then they all vote the same way.
Not surprising really. 

If the massacres continue for another 2 or 3 weeks you'll probably see different voting results.

Too late then.

[foxcommander]

On the international thing ireland's abstaining from that human rights vote was disgusting. Britain doing it wasn't a big surprise but ireland. Could not believe it.

Yep. Sums up the calibre of the country. Instead Ireland is too busy trying to prevent abuse of the "human rights" of scumbags that bankrupted the country or raped charities such as Rehab.

How about a referendum to really see what the country thinks of the non-action of our leaders and thinkers?

[seafoid]

First of all let me prefix this with what israel is doing is shocking just to clear that up. The lies, the media campaign, the unashamed genocide, the murder of children ,and the list goes on, is beyond words.

Sheehy from what i've noticed in other threads likes trolling but, asides from the insults and nazi comments which have been way out of order,makes valid points.

His points really circle around anti semitism and the fact that you two boys display many of those traits.There is an irony to it - anti semitism creates zionists. What you do by being like that is create a full circle which never gets broken. That point seems a bit beyond the grasp of some to be honest.

Israeli people are not sub human. Elements of people in israel are and most definitely those behind this.

I work with an israeli and he is very concerned for his families safety but he also sees the wrong in what is going on.

If you watch the bbc news or sky news all you get is pro israel. If you come here it's continued copy and pastes of pro palestinian articles. I very much doubt anyone reads the stuff you boys even copy and paste any more.

It's not possible for BBC or RTE to tell people that Israel is never going to give the Palestinians a state and that Israel is trying to emulate Oliver Cromwell in Gaza now.

GHD knows Gaza very well and he knows how Israel operates.
Sheehy has some good points but he's not socially capable of making them without insulting people.
I think the flaw in his reasoning is that he thinks Israel will at some stage behave in good faith.
I don't believe it ever will. There is something fundamentally wrong with Israel.

The conflict is very complicated as well and most people don't have the time or inclination to look at it in depth. 

[imtommygunn]

The truth about what is going on now would be a start from the bbc.

[seafoid]

The truth about what is going on now would be a start from the bbc.

Jonathan Kuttab @jkuttab     ·   1m   

Unbelievable:  entire neighborhood destroyed in ONE HOUR. Must see time lapse to believe it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdoYZ1-9XsM

Norman Finkelstein on why Israel does this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccenVc7Bq5Q

[seafoid]

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/07/28/gazas-children-trapped-in-despair/

"World Jewry has erected a high wall of ideological protection around Israel, a defensive-psychological formation which not only condones its actions in all particulars (including, now, the invasion of Gaza), but also vituperatively strikes out, the cancer of intra-recriminatory behavior, against critics as therefore self-hating Jews for purposes of silencing dissent. Judaism is presently in a strait-jacket, the prime enabler for Israel's commission of war crimes. I have consistently argued for the separation of Judaism from Israel, the latter a transgressive force contaminating the wellsprings of Jewish ethical principles and teachings by its actions with respect to Palestinians and, in fact, a global posture of Reaction, as in its uncritical support of—fully reciprocated by—American foreign policy."

[johnneycool]

The truth about what is going on now would be a start from the bbc.

I had a quick look at a lot of the UK red tops web sites yesterday and you'd have to go looking for anything on Palestine and when you do find it a good few have a picture of one of the Israeli soldiers funeral. They are keeping the white van man in the dark on this, maybe the white van man is more interested in Tulisa or whoever, but its certainly not top billing.

C4 news and Jon Snow are the only ones I see giving this any sort of worthy coverage of this massacre!

[theskull1]

Yes, the internet give a really side on perspective view of the power and bias of the large media outlets to suit someone's agenda.

It really is an ugly murky world we live in

[tbrick18]

I think a lot of ye have a hard on for Sheehy based on his rising ye. Maybe he deserves some of it. But if you look at what he is saying, what do ye actually disagree with?

1 - Israel is guilty of war crimes, and the atrocities currently ongoing are more of the same.
2 - Israel is illegally settling Gaza and the West Bank, and should be forced to revert to the 1967 UN Boundary.
3 - Israel, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
4 - Palestine, within those boundaries has a right to exist.
5 - An external force, probably the UN, will be required to keep each side from attacking the other.
6 - Hamas has fired rockets into Israel, and this is again criminal behaviour, but it does not excuse the Israeli response.

To be honest, I don't think anyone on this board is a million miles away from what Sheehy is saying. I know I'm not, and I've had my disagreements with him in the past. Sheehy takes exception when some posts from very Pro-Palestinian positions seem to either see only one side, or castigate the entire Israeli population. That seems to be the real disconnect here.

I understand that GHD, Seafoid and Mike Sheehy hold entrenched positions, but sometimes you get so 'dug in' that you don't realise your battle lines are nearly close enough to shake hands.

Excellent post, and sums up the conflict in a nutshell. The part in bold could be applied here also and in many other places throughout the world.

The Isreali response does not justify the threat. It can only be described as genocide in the guise of self-defence in my opinion.
That's not justifying what Hamas have done, however, if your country was in the position that Gaza is on a daily basis where supplies, education, electric, economy....everything is being controlled and restricted by an external power do you not think eventually the people will rise up against that? I believe Hamas are the manifestation of this to a point, but like Bloody Sunday, these incursions into Gaza and senseless unpunished unrestricted murder of innocent civilians will be the biggest recruitment tool that Hamas have ever seen. So the problem perpetuates.

Its really sad and it really highlights the evil in that exists in the world when fellow human beings can have so little regard for other human beings. It's ironic to think that not that long ago, Jews were the victims of attempted genocide and now the Jewish Isreali state seem to be the equivalent of the Nazis in WWII.
Is this an unfair comparison? Nazis WWII = Isreal Modern Day and Gaza Palestinians = Jews WWII?

Did anyone see John Snow last night on C4 news interviewing the former Isreali Ambassador to the US? Be basically told him he was talking nonsense when he said Hamas were using civilians as human shields and that the Isreali's were doing everything they could to protect civilians. The Ambassador was not a happy camper.

[johnneycool]

Did anyone see John Snow last night on C4 news interviewing the former Isreali Ambassador to the US? Be basically told him he was talking nonsense when he said Hamas were using civilians as human shields and that the Isreali's were doing everything they could to protect civilians. The Ambassador was not a happy camper.

But the lad held the party line right to the end and didn't waver, they're well drilled in this regard.

I'd like them taken to task on the 'Israel didn't start this', well they didn't fire the first rocket, but their embargo and regular shootings was always going to lead to some sort of reprisal by Hamas and the Palestinian people constantly being backed into a corner.

[tbrick18]

Did anyone see John Snow last night on C4 news interviewing the former Isreali Ambassador to the US? Be basically told him he was talking nonsense when he said Hamas were using civilians as human shields and that the Isreali's were doing everything they could to protect civilians. The Ambassador was not a happy camper.

But the lad held the party line right to the end and didn't waver, they're well drilled in this regard.

I'd like them taken to task on the 'Israel didn't start this', well they didn't fire the first rocket, but their embargo and regular shootings was always going to lead to some sort of reprisal by Hamas and the Palestinian people constantly being backed into a corner.

Yup, even when Snow was able to directly rebut what he had said he just reverted to the Isreal defending itself routine.
I have to say, I've been impressed by C4 news and Snow in particular in reporting this. They also condemn Hamas, but the reporting is balanced and based on the facts as they see them rather than how the BBC are reporting it as all pro-Isreali.

[Sidney]

Did anyone see John Snow last night on C4 news interviewing the former Isreali Ambassador to the US? Be basically told him he was talking nonsense when he said Hamas were using civilians as human shields and that the Isreali's were doing everything they could to protect civilians. The Ambassador was not a happy camper.

But the lad held the party line right to the end and didn't waver, they're well drilled in this regard.

I'd like them taken to task on the 'Israel didn't start this', well they didn't fire the first rocket, but their embargo and regular shootings was always going to lead to some sort of reprisal by Hamas and the Palestinian people constantly being backed into a corner.

The mainstream media in general is happy to toe Iisrael's line in terms of the way coverage is framed. It's all about the framing.

Since Israel has launched a ground offensive inside Gaza, I don't think I've once heard a mainstream media outlet mention Palestine/Gaza's right to defend itself.

I haven't once heard the question asked: Does Israel acknowledge Palestine's right to exist?