Stormont Assembly Elections 2017

[OakleafCounty]

Now that Martins funeral has passed I think it's becoming more obvious that he was holding the mess together. Sinn Fein with an unelected Gerry Adams back in the north undermining their elected northern leader is definitely a backward step. Seeing him on TV in recent weeks it's obvious that he can't lace Martins boots in dealing with the DUP.

As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm all for Irish language, but it won't make me more Irish and if I used it in my day to day job I'd not make it to then end of the week...

Why not?

Why not? what line of work do you do? Irish teacher?

I don't know why you're answering a simple question with a question, and an irrelevant one at that.

I asked because what you said seemed to be so ironic that I wasn't sure if I'd picked you up right. Your whole argument seemed to be that Irish wasn't repressed, but in the very next sentence, unless I've picked you up wrong (which is why I asked for clarity) you seem to be suggesting you'd get sacked for using it in work...

I didnt say id get sacked but when you deal in medical sales you are dealing with the public, asking medical questions and prescribing, if i did it in Irish all the time i wouldnt be doing well and only dealing with a small minority that actually speak irish from a nationalist grouping and none at all in a non nationalist grouping.... sorry for not explaining that properly to you

Thanks for explaining it properly. So you meant if you spoke Irish to everyone, regardless of whether they speak it or not, you wouldn't do well at work. I get it now, and that's true. An iLA wouldn't force you to speak Irish though, so I still don't get why you'd do that?

I didnt say it would, i just said if i used Irish in my day to day it wouldnt see me through the week... you brought up being sacked, putting other words into a post doesnt mean i said them

[armaghniac]

As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.

Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?

[Franko]

As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.

Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?

Correct.  The fact that this could potentially bring down a "government" is not Sinn Fein's issue.  All ire in this regard should be directed at the the DUP.  Directing it at SF only serves to condone the DUP's uber bigotry.  The high court have already ruled on this.

[armaghniac]

As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.

Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?

Correct.  The fact that this could potentially bring down a "government" is not Sinn Fein's issue.  All ire in this regard should be directed at the the DUP.  Directing it at SF only serves to condone the DUP's uber bigotry.  The high court have already ruled on this.

Indeed, in the "dealing with the past" there might be some issues on which the  DUP would be entitled to have a strong opinion, but the Irish language act should never have been an issue at all.

[MoChara]

The ILA is such a misnomer, why would an Irish Speaker need a British institution to give recognition and approval for the very words that come out of their mouths.

Because, believe it or not, in the North, it'll be that institution (whether Stormont or Westminster) that'll pay for it out of its budget?

Bearing in mind we don't actually know what an ILA would look like how do you know its going to be any more than tokenism?

We already have Irish Schools and Irish signs where they are requested, and Irish Classes for adults quite widely available so the ILA seems to be more a push for recognition rather than progress.

[armaghniac]

We already have Irish Schools and Irish signs where they are requested, and Irish Classes for adults quite widely available so the ILA seems to be more a push for recognition rather than progress.

We certainly do not have Irish language signs where requested.
But even if it is only a push for recognition, should a language not be recognised in its own land?

[OakleafCounty]

As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.

Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?

It definitely shouldn't be contentious because of bigotry. But the cost and who will benefit from it could easily be contentious. Me or my family certainly won't benefit from it but our taxes will be spent on it. I have nothing against the Irish language but I don't see why public money should be thrown at it while the country's broke. I'm getting sick of my taxes being spent on cultural and sporting organisations that should really be privately financed while the NHS is collapsing and the social housing need can't be met for a lack of available funds. 

[MoChara]

We already have Irish Schools and Irish signs where they are requested, and Irish Classes for adults quite widely available so the ILA seems to be more a push for recognition rather than progress.

We certainly do not have Irish language signs where requested.
But even if it is only a push for recognition, should a language not be recognised in its own land?

Irish signs have been put up in my area at the request of the local populace I can't imagine its different in Armagh.

The Irish Language is recognized all over Ireland as the native Language, I don't see how a governmental bill affects that, other than having a British Parliament officially accepting it.

[armaghniac]

It definitely shouldn't be contentious because of bigotry. But the cost and who will benefit from it could easily be contentious. Me or my family certainly won't benefit from it but our taxes will be spent on it. I have nothing against the Irish language but I don't see why public money should be thrown at it while the country's broke. I'm getting sick of my taxes being spent on cultural and sporting organisations that should really be privately financed while the NHS is collapsing and the social housing need can't be met for a lack of available funds.

The amount of money here is not material, we all pay taxes for things that we personally will never use. If you are of Irish orientation then you can use the service, if not then you don't. People have a right not to have their own language repressed in their own country and this is not dependent on how many have gone over to the English. Having your own culture might be as important as having a bigger council house, not everyone is mercenary.  In any case, if money was the issue the DUP could say go off and identify savings to pay for it, but even if SF did they still wouldn't be happy because their attitudes are rooted in bigotry.

Irish signs have been put up in my area at the request of the local populace I can't imagine its different in Armagh.

I'd say half the councils in the 6 counties have no Irish signs whatsoever. There is no Roads Service Irish sign. Even on a street if a few oppose it then no sign is erected.

The Irish Language is recognized all over Ireland as the native Language,

Really. Does the DUP so recognise it?

[Windmill abu]

As for an Irish Language Act. Just another example of the soft corruption that goes on in politics the world over. Many of the people other than teachers who benefit financially from public money being put into the Irish language in the north are friends of Sinn Fein some of which here in Derry City are ex-prisoners. It's just a case of Gerry looking out for some of his old comrades and their relatives. To have it as a 'red line' and something that could actually bring down the so called government here is utterly ridiculous in my view.

Why, other than bigotry, should it bring the government down or be contentious at all?

It definitely shouldn't be contentious because of bigotry. But the cost and who will benefit from it could easily be contentious. Me or my family certainly won't benefit from it but our taxes will be spent on it. I have nothing against the Irish language but I don't see why public money should be thrown at it while the country's broke. I'm getting sick of my taxes being spent on cultural and sporting organisations that should really be privately financed while the NHS is collapsing and the social housing need can't be met for a lack of available funds.

Try substituting the words Royal Family where the words Irish Language or Sporting & Cultural appear above for a real waste of money.

[seafoid]

   https://www.ft.com/content/ed4b30e4-13c4-11e7-b0c1-37e417ee6c76

   How can Northern Ireland's political crisis be resolved?
                                          
      
                     Brexit fears and grandstanding put the focus on Sinn Fein and DUP, writes Sebastian Payne
                     
                                             5 hours ago
                     by: Sebastian Payne
               
   
   
   
                  
                     Politics in Northern Ireland is in stasis, if not stalemate. The collapse of the power-sharing talks on Monday between nationalists Sinn Fein and the Democratic Unionist party has raised two prospects: another round of assembly elections or direct rule from London. The latter is unpalatable to both sides. Just as the UK government is about to fire the starting gun on Brexit, it does not have the political capacity or will to run Northern Ireland too. For the DUP, direct rule would likely bolster Sinn Fein, providing further ammunition for its claims about Westminster's imperial ambitions.There appears to be little appetite for more elections either. The result of the recent assembly elections produced a tight result, with the DUP just one seat ahead of Sinn Fein. A further ballot is unlikely to produce a clearer outcome. Although both parties appear resolute, James Brokenshire, the Northern Ireland secretary, has made the right decision to hand budget control to civil servants and give both sides another couple of weeks to broker a deal. As Vincent Boland has reported, progress on policy has been made behind the scenes and an agreement still seems possible. Yet stumbling blocks remain.                     
                  The biggest is Arlene Foster, the current leader of the DUP. Her role in the "cash for ash" subsidies scandal, combined with the party's election losses, should have led to her resignation. But Ms Foster appears impervious to criticism and now that Sinn Fein is calling for her to go, there seems little prospect of her stepping down of her own accord. If Northern Ireland does go through another round of elections and the DUP loses more seats, her position might become untenable. Or she might decide to accede to some of Sinn Fein's legislative demands and find a deal that works.But what makes the current stand-off particularly acute is Brexit. The DUP's decision to support Britain's departure from the EU made sense for the party's Westminster MPs, who were allying themselves with much of the Conservative party.

However, in Northern Ireland, the prospect of a hard border and questions over the customs union have hindered the party. It is too late now and Sinn Fein have taken advantage of the uncertainty.One of the reasons the current negotiations have failed is the death of Martin McGuinness. The former deputy first minister and Irish Republican Army commander was a formidable negotiator, but willing to compromise and concede. Gerry Adams, president of Sinn Fein, is much more ideological and intransigent, and Michelle O'Neill, the party's leader in Northern Ireland, does not have McGuinness's skills or experience.Despite these concerns, some sort of agreement, eventually, looks inevitable. Sinn Fein and the DUP are enjoying being back in the spotlight. But both parties know that they will have to get on with governing some day. The expectation (or hope) in Westminster is that once the triggering of Article 50 is out of the way, inertia will begin to give way to activity.

[seafoid]

The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.

So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)

There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.

I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...

I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions

Really??  Hundreds of millions of pounds to implement an Irish Language Act??

It's hard to fully cost an ILA since we don't know what the full remit and provisions of an Act would be yet.  However didn't Conradh na Gaeilge put forward their version costed at £8 million one-off infrastructure costs and then £2 mill a year running costs?

Again we dont know the cost.... so me saying 10 million upwards i could be right i could be wrong, i just dont think i need to be paying out more tax money on something that i can do now anyway for free.

most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.

My Irishness is not under threat and has actually improved since the 70's, club tops are common practice in all colleges now with the games being held at state of the art facilities... I fail to see where we are being repressed  and i fail to see how the growth of Irish is being stopped? You will get that bigots that will try and stem it but its not stopped me from playing volunteering/coaching or officating gaelic games

I think we may be in agreement here MR2 just arguing over the detail!  Although I'm 100% in favour of the preservation and development of the Irish language, personally I'm not convinced on the need for an ILA as a mechanism for doing that.  Using CnaG figures, they estimated that part of the £2mill a year running costs of the ILA would be a Language Commissioner's Office, staffed at at a cost of £300k - £400k per year.  I'd much rather that money was spent on Liofa grants etc or funding for communities like Slaughtneil/Carntogher to make themselves Gaeltacht area (if the demand is there).  There we have an area where approx 200 families are bi-lingual and presumably a number of them will continue that into the next generation.  Legislating to make BBCNI produce more Irish language offerings is not really the way forward.

However I fully understand when people's backs are got up by Foster saying things like "if people want to learn Irish they should be allowed to" as if that's something in the gift of Unionists.  Also when she was the minister responsible for NITB she blocked bi-lingual signs at some tourist attractions, refused to bring "The Gathering" to the North (OK that turned out to be  a load of keek but that's not why she blocked it!) and also was against the extension of the Wild Atlantic Way in the North.

I did hear from someone involved very much in the Tourism industry that in talks between the South and North tourists groups that the North reps did not want the Wild Atlantic Way to include the beautiful North Derry and Antrim coastline. They wanted it isolated to be the Northern Way wth signs predominantly in blue red and white. The goodwill is not there as long as Westmister is givings subsidies

I presume the Northern Way will follow the traditional marching route . Will it feature real croppies ?

[OakleafCounty]

The amount of money here is not material, we all pay taxes for things that we personally will never use.

When it's public money being spent of course it's material and a genuine need should be demonstrated. It's called governance which unfortunately isn't always done competently here (three new publicly funded stadiums in Belfast  )   Especially when it comes to looking at who exactly will benefit financially from it.

If you are of Irish orientation then you can use the service, if not then you don't.

Don't know what you're getting at here.

People have a right not to have their own language repressed in their own country and this is not dependent on how many have gone over to the English.

'Gone over to English'. Sorry to burst your bubble but people of 'Irish orientation' have been speaking English as a first language for hundreds of years now. And the Irish textbook language as it is today isn't repressed in my view. I did is as a GCSE and I have loads of access to it. For free, without having to spend public money. The old dialect that my ancestors spoke died at least 100 years ago. In the north the last two dialects to die out were Rathlin (1960's) and the Glens of Antrim.

Having your own culture might be as important as having a bigger council house, not everyone is mercenary.

It's not about wanting bigger 'council house'. It's a need provide people with homes. There's a massive gap between need and budget and yes, it is more important to put a roof over homeless peoples heads.

[Avondhu star]

The British government have been repressing the Irish language for hundreds of years, the proposed act seems a modest effort enough response and should have been here years ago.

So in your estimation what would be the initial costs and running costs? What percentage of NI would benefit from this and based on other more important things like health jobs homeless and other (imo) important things ( once there is an UI would that not be covered??)

There are estimates for this and presumably the spending will provide jobs as other spending does. There are many things to be done to improve health that do not require cultural repression. There is a great deal of money wasted in NI public services.

I've been playing Gaelic games and continue to do so for 35 years, club has had Irish classes for as long as I can remember and I've never known it to be repressed I've also never seen it too busy or people clambering for lessons ... Irish is everywhere in Belfast with schools dedicated to Irish language ...

I think the cost of this could run in to tens if not hundreds of millions

Really??  Hundreds of millions of pounds to implement an Irish Language Act??

It's hard to fully cost an ILA since we don't know what the full remit and provisions of an Act would be yet.  However didn't Conradh na Gaeilge put forward their version costed at £8 million one-off infrastructure costs and then £2 mill a year running costs?

Again we dont know the cost.... so me saying 10 million upwards i could be right i could be wrong, i just dont think i need to be paying out more tax money on something that i can do now anyway for free.

most of the streets in nationalist areas are named in Irish (most be a nightmare for postmen) anyways we have a Irish show on BBC 2 every week (could be more if there was more intreset i suppose) and on the radio also, TG4 is a dedicated irish TV programme with all things Irish, wouldnt know the viewing figures on it but i watch it every Sunday when there is a game on.

My Irishness is not under threat and has actually improved since the 70's, club tops are common practice in all colleges now with the games being held at state of the art facilities... I fail to see where we are being repressed  and i fail to see how the growth of Irish is being stopped? You will get that bigots that will try and stem it but its not stopped me from playing volunteering/coaching or officating gaelic games

I think we may be in agreement here MR2 just arguing over the detail!  Although I'm 100% in favour of the preservation and development of the Irish language, personally I'm not convinced on the need for an ILA as a mechanism for doing that.  Using CnaG figures, they estimated that part of the £2mill a year running costs of the ILA would be a Language Commissioner's Office, staffed at at a cost of £300k - £400k per year.  I'd much rather that money was spent on Liofa grants etc or funding for communities like Slaughtneil/Carntogher to make themselves Gaeltacht area (if the demand is there).  There we have an area where approx 200 families are bi-lingual and presumably a number of them will continue that into the next generation.  Legislating to make BBCNI produce more Irish language offerings is not really the way forward.

However I fully understand when people's backs are got up by Foster saying things like "if people want to learn Irish they should be allowed to" as if that's something in the gift of Unionists.  Also when she was the minister responsible for NITB she blocked bi-lingual signs at some tourist attractions, refused to bring "The Gathering" to the North (OK that turned out to be  a load of keek but that's not why she blocked it!) and also was against the extension of the Wild Atlantic Way in the North.

I did hear from someone involved very much in the Tourism industry that in talks between the South and North tourists groups that the North reps did not want the Wild Atlantic Way to include the beautiful North Derry and Antrim coastline. They wanted it isolated to be the Northern Way wth signs predominantly in blue red and white. The goodwill is not there as long as Westmister is givings subsidies

I presume the Northern Way will follow the traditional marching route . Will it feature real croppies ?

It will. There will be a small diversion everyday at noon to Burntollet where tourists can entertain themselves renacting the civil rights march. The local Taigs have volunteered to be targets for anyone who wants to attack them