Stormont Assembly Elections 2017

[imtommygunn]

I see some of your point but don't necessarily agree with all of it. Is corruption a political motive to vote for someone? I guess people with wood pellet boiler grants probably voted dup...

Sf want a united ireland and people want that. I get that. What the dup offer is a real quandry to be honest. I just don't see them as anything other than a sectarian party. I don't think this of the uup (once tom elliot went) or alliance who are to a degree unionists but i see it in the dup. They offer no positive manifesto on anything. Now some people vote for them to avoid a united ireland, some for poltical ideals and quite a lot in my view vote for them because they are not catholics. I honestly see them as doing nothing positive and think they have been feathering their own nests post agreement. Once the boat gets rocked the real them comes out.

[vallankumous]

If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.

This is the definition of Sectarian

(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:

Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?

[Farrandeelin]

Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?

[seafoid]

If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.

This is the definition of Sectarian

(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:

Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?

did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?

[Avondhu star]

No one including Sinn Fein have made the good economic case for a United Ireland.

Au contraire:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/united-irish-economy-could-deliver-boost-of-36bn-388959.html

Thanks for that very informative link. I was referring to the politicians who are well able to roar and shout about the patriot dead at Bodenstown Kilcrumper and Beal na Blath each year. We are lacking leaders of vision who could make the economic case and also provide guidance to the establishment of a form of government which would help persuade the Unionists that there is a place for them in a united Ireland. Brexit will show the Unionists what regard they are held in by Westminster

[vallankumous]

Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?

Yes, much better word and probably accurate. Tribal is an acceptable political position too.

did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?

Yes, I think so.
However, it is not sectarian. I disagree wholey with it but it is a ligit political position.

[OgraAnDun]

If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.

This is the definition of Sectarian

(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:

Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?

I'd like to hope not, but I do think the inability to accept Irish culture, beliefs and nationhood - which in this statelet means Catholocism - was a driving factor in huge swathes of the DUP vote. In the north of Ireland, a religion is not simply which version of God you believe in or which prayer is said before you go to sleep.

[vallankumous]

If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.

This is the definition of Sectarian

(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:

Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?

I'd like to hope not, but I do think the inability to accept Irish culture, beliefs and nationhood - which in this statelet means Catholocism - was a driving factor in huge swathes of the DUP vote. In the north of Ireland, a religion is not simply which version of God you believe in or which prayer is said before you go to sleep.

I can't believe how hard people will try to justify a false accusation of sectarianism against themselves.

[seafoid]

Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?

Yes, much better word and probably accurate. Tribal is an acceptable political position too.

did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?

Yes, I think so.
However, it is not sectarian. I disagree wholey with it but it is a ligit political position.

the correlation between religion and political party is well in excess of 90%
But if you don't think that is sectarian, carry on

[OgraAnDun]

If the north of Ireland was not split into Catholic and Protestant areas, with Catholic and Protestant schools, sports organisations, etc, then it wouldn't be called a sectarian headcount. But Catholics almost exclusively vote nationalist because they are brought up in an inter-meshed catholic/nationalist identity and way of life (and vice versa for protestants). The day that Catholic does not almost definitely mean nationalist, and likewise for protestant/unionist, will be the day you can say it's not a sectarian headcount.

This is the definition of Sectarian

(a person) strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs:

Do you think the inability to accept Protestantism as a religious belief motivated people to vote SF in the recent election?

I'd like to hope not, but I do think the inability to accept Irish culture, beliefs and nationhood - which in this statelet means Catholocism - was a driving factor in huge swathes of the DUP vote. In the north of Ireland, a religion is not simply which version of God you believe in or which prayer is said before you go to sleep.

I can't believe how hard people will try to justify a false accusation of sectarianism against themselves.

I didn't vote SF because I hate everything British. In my opinion, many DUP voters voted DUP because they hate everything Irish.

Also, this is what the Collin's English Dictionary defines sectarianism as: Sectarian means resulting from the differences between different religions. .

They give other definitions such as:

.
1.
of, belonging or relating to, or characteristic of sects or sectaries
2.
adhering to a particular sect, faction, or doctrine
3.
narrow-minded, esp as a result of rigid adherence to a particular sect



Therefore there doesn't need to be religious intolerance for something to be classified as sectarian.

[Main Street]

Regardless of Unionism opposing the Irish language on cultural grounds and the fact that they oppose most things Irish, their opposition of implementing an Irish language act on the basis of it being unnecessary and a waste of public funds is a legitimate position too. Not one that I necessarily agree with but I do see their point.

Afaics, there are different shades of unionist opposition to the language act. The UUP argument is different to the DUP.  Cost is one issue of opposition.
Is the DUP opposition to the language act about logic and reasoning as you imply?
If some external fund  were to guarantee the costs for the next 10 years, do you think the DUP´s position would change to some extent about the issue?

[vallankumous]

Ok vallankumous, I get where you're coming from. Sectarian is probably the incorrect word. Would tribal deecribe it better?

Yes, much better word and probably accurate. Tribal is an acceptable political position too.

did the inability to accept the Irish language as a badge of cultural identity act as a vote gatherer ?

Yes, I think so.
However, it is not sectarian. I disagree wholey with it but it is a ligit political position.

the correlation between religion and political party is well in excess of 90%
But if you don't think that is sectarian, carry on

I think its tribal. Credit Farrendeelin

I didn't vote SF because I hate everything British. In my opinion, many DUP voters voted DUP because they hate everything Irish.

Also, this is what the Collin's English Dictionary defines sectarianism as: Sectarian means resulting from the differences between different religions. .

They give other definitions such as:

.
1.
of, belonging or relating to, or characteristic of sects or sectaries
2.
adhering to a particular sect, faction, or doctrine
3.
narrow-minded, esp as a result of rigid adherence to a particular sect



Therefore there doesn't need to be religious intolerance for something to be classified as sectarian.

Yes it does mean you are opposed to all other faith. If it didn't then every Person of Faith would be sectarian. The Pope, the Dali Lama, Ghandi all could be included in your definition.

Ok you didn't vote Sf because you hate everything British. That is not my argument.
My argument is, did you vote SF because you hate everything protestant? If you did then fair enough, you are sectarian.
Are you ok with your decision on who to vote got is being described as a vote by someone who hates everything protestant?

Hard station is talking sense and as soon as we all lead like this instead of letting lazy journalists and greedy politicians lead us we will get logic in our politics.

[OgraAnDun]

It's not my definition, it's the definition of the Collins English Dictionary. They are the top four definitions given online by Collins.

I don't hate everything Protestant, I don't really care what religion someone is if they are a decent person. They can describe it whatever way they want, I know my reasons for voting SF and if that's described as sectarian then so be it. It's being described as a sectarian head count rather than sectarian voting - because it's a pretty accurate representation of the proportion of Catholics to Protestants.

I can see your point on this but I'm afraid we're not going to agree on it.

[seafoid]

Tribal is the same as sectarian. When the tribes are religious . Rangers v Celtic is sectarian.

Anyway what will nationalists do when they get a political majority? How about a few statues in places like Stormont?

I wonder what proportion of the DUP underperformance was RHI and what was Brexit related.

[north_antrim_hound]

Read this carefully.Britain does not want or regard Northern Unionists as their people.Dublin does not want or regard Northern nationalists as their people.Ulster unionism and Northern nationalism are redundant philosophies therefore

read this carefully

we know that dublin would not regard the northen nationlists as their people but the rest of the country would vote for a UI
Dublin always had that tinge of unionism left from 1921