Voted for by MLAs, all the family members, friends and party activists they employ set for a massive pay rise
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-53938821
axpayers may face an annual bill of £4.2m every year to cover the increased staff and office costs of MLAs.
It comes after MLAs gave themselves the power to increase their expenses.
The plan, drawn up by the Assembly Commission which runs Stormont, is said to bring the wages of people who work for MLAs into line with other civil service workers.
MLA allowances for running constituency offices will also increase from £4,900 to £7,000 per annum.
Move supported
The Assembly Commission is made up of all the main parties.
The changes were supported by DUP, Sinn Féin and the SDLP.
Those at the top end, Grade Three, can now be paid up to £36,100, up from a limit of £22,750. For a Grade One staff member the top salary is now £23,490 up from £18,000. For a Grade Two staff member, the top salary will be £29,400, up from £19,750.
The payments will be backdated to 1 April.
The allowances of MLAs to run their constituency offices will also increase from £4,900 to £7,000 per year.
'Amazing'
After examining the figures, Alan McQuillan, who is a member of the Independent Financial Renew Panel, said he was "astonished" by some of the increases.
"A 46% rise, 37% of that in cash, 5% extra paid into their pensions, and on top of that, they gave them an extra eight days a year leave, which is worth another 4% in pay.
"And they're giving them a new sick pay scheme, whereby if a member is off sick, they'll get six months full pay and six months half pay.
"It's a most amazing package. I don't think there's ever been a package of this size in the Northern Ireland public sector, and it's being delivered in the teeth of all the economic problems we face today.
Mr McQuillan said that when the Independent Financial Renew Panel set the pay originally, the salaries were benchmarked against "a basket of salaries drawn from the major sectors - health, teaching, the public sector and private sector".
MLAs vote for assembly commission to set expenses
Will the fox get the run of the chicken coop?
He added: "To give you an example, under this new system, the top senior staff in an MLA's office, taking calls from the public, writing letters for the MLA and jobs like that, are now going to be earning more than a mid-scale registrar in a hospital.
"That's a fairly senior doctor dealing with critically-ill patients and a degree that took five or six years. That doctor is now going to be earning the same salary as a person sitting in an MLA's office who doesn't have to have any qualifications at all."
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Analysis: BBC News NI Political Correspondent Gareth Gordon
There have been well-documented abuses by some - by no means all - MLAs in the past in terms of expenses.
The fact that the Assembly was down for almost three years didn't help the public mood.
Neither did the fact that they were only back a matter of days when they were awarded a 1% pay increase by an independent body in January.
Everyone, across the board, handed it back as they knew it was not the right time.
Effectively, the Assembly Commission's decision to take it upon themselves to award a new allowance and expenses regime means that staff employed by MLAs are now set for a big pay increase.
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A controversial decision not to allow MLAs to put contact details on signage outside their offices has also been reversed.
They can now also run satellite surgeries away from their constituency offices.
Ye Northern folk have to pay for ye're democracy ;).
Cheaper than the cost of a war all the same.
I expect nothing more from that shower of useless fcukwits. They are f**king disgrace
It's disgraceful in the middle of a pandemic. Cronyism at its worst.
Usual outrage - its been brought into line with civil service looks like which I'm sure there is an argument for. Unless the civil service terms are too generous which I'd agree with, certainly when it comes to sick leave which is abused high and wide.
I will say though that I'd never put weight in anything that Alan McQuillan says. He is an absolute fuckwit - a horrible person. Its also rich him talking about the public purse when he has businesses which absolutely screw it.
Quote from: haranguerer on August 28, 2020, 08:40:47 AM
Usual outrage - its been brought into line with civil service looks like which I'm sure there is an argument for. Unless the civil service terms are too generous which I'd agree with, certainly when it comes to sick leave which is abused high and wide.
I will say though that I'd never put weight in anything that Alan McQuillan says. He is an absolute fuckwit - a horrible person. Its also rich him talking about the public purse when he has businesses which absolutely screw it.
To join the silly service I'm sure you need to do an interview and have some level of educational attainment depending on the entry level. My reading of this is you can employ anyone you fancy to stuff letters in envelopes, for the guts of 40 grand a year!
Quote from: Tony Baloney on August 28, 2020, 08:51:15 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 28, 2020, 08:40:47 AM
Usual outrage - its been brought into line with civil service looks like which I'm sure there is an argument for. Unless the civil service terms are too generous which I'd agree with, certainly when it comes to sick leave which is abused high and wide.
I will say though that I'd never put weight in anything that Alan McQuillan says. He is an absolute fuckwit - a horrible person. Its also rich him talking about the public purse when he has businesses which absolutely screw it.
To join the silly service I'm sure you need to do an interview and have some level of educational attainment depending on the entry level. My reading of this is you can employ anyone you fancy to stuff letters in envelopes, for the guts of 40 grand a year!
No Fair employment requirements, family members it would seem so they should be remunerated on their job description and qualifications.
Lining of the pockets to continue unabated.
It's part of a bigger picture. NICS is too big, too many handy numbers, too many buck passers, all at the taxpayers expense. Ask a school principal or doctor how frustrated are they by Department officials passing the buck rather than giving them an answer or help and you'll see the reality. Ironically it will soften the Covid blow overall as so many people are featherbedded in the civil service. Stormont is just the tip of the iceberg.
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
The occupied six counties is not sustainable is any shape or form. We can simply solve the expenses issue by running new all-Ireland elections for the government in Dublin.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Quote from: haranguerer on August 28, 2020, 08:40:47 AM
Usual outrage - its been brought into line with civil service looks like which I'm sure there is an argument for. Unless the civil service terms are too generous which I'd agree with, certainly when it comes to sick leave which is abused high and wide.
I will say though that I'd never put weight in anything that Alan McQuillan says. He is an absolute fuckwit - a horrible person. Its also rich him talking about the public purse when he has businesses which absolutely screw it.
Is it not just picking your friends/family/relative into a job they may not be in anyway qualified for or be in a function to carry out and get paid a handsome (more handsome) salary to do so?
That is wrong.
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
I probably wouldn't have any major qualms with the salaries of the actual politicians. They take a lot of shit for their money and have to watch every step, both in their professional and personal lives.
It's the SPAD's and the glorified stamp lickers in the constituency offices, who are accountable to nobody other than their mate (the politician) who employed them that would be more of an issue IMO. That said, their isn't much job security in it, so that probably needs factored in also.
And this is not in any way an orange v green thing - it's across the board.
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics
By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all
But that wouldn't be very sensible
What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics
If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well
Did they not give a massive payrise over the last few years to the taoiseach?
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:46:56 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on August 28, 2020, 08:40:47 AM
Usual outrage - its been brought into line with civil service looks like which I'm sure there is an argument for. Unless the civil service terms are too generous which I'd agree with, certainly when it comes to sick leave which is abused high and wide.
I will say though that I'd never put weight in anything that Alan McQuillan says. He is an absolute fuckwit - a horrible person. Its also rich him talking about the public purse when he has businesses which absolutely screw it.
Is it not just picking your friends/family/relative into a job they may not be in anyway qualified for or be in a function to carry out and get paid a handsome (more handsome) salary to do so?
That is wrong.
Not sure how it is dealt with, but agree there should be accountability and justification round the recruitment and employment. I don't think its beyond the realms of possibility at all that in some cases it is family members who are best for the job though.
I agree also that politicians salaries should be such that they attract people who are suitably qualified/experienced. Things are a bit skewed in the north and in general i think the quality of politician is poor, but I don't see how cutting salaries or giving them shit about it etc is going to improve that. I guess we need to think about the type of people we'd like to see in charge of govt departments. For some on here its seems to be those who are independently wealthy and so have no need of the salary a demanding role would justify. I'm sure there'd be no problems there ::)
If that isn't to be the case, then we need to think about how we attract people who will make good ministers, and what sort of salaries would attract those people.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.
Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?
Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics
By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all
But that wouldn't be very sensible
What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics
If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well
I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.
You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:23:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics
By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all
But that wouldn't be very sensible
What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics
If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well
I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.
You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?
You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts
What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics
You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background
Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy
This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose
This is fairly basic stuff
If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.
Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?
Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.
is this a joke question
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.
Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?
Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.
I would equate a TD to an MP who earns around 90k a year.. a MLA would be a level above a councilor who does it for free (ish)
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:23:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics
By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all
But that wouldn't be very sensible
What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics
If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well
I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.
You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?
You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts
What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics
You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background
Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy
This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose
This is fairly basic stuff
If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you
Was John Hume not paid peanuts when he entered politics?
When you look at the class of politician don't south, paying them a kings ransom also seems to attract monkeys, monkeys who are only interested in lining their own pockets too.
What I am proposing is the end of career politicians and the returns of community activists and open it up for those who see it as a vocation to change society for the better and not an avenue where they can use government jets, stay in top hotels, get wined and dined in the finest restaurants and further line their own pockets. We currently have a system of politics where politicans are extremely well remunerated and seem to be completely and utterly incompetent in fixing or addressing the failings in society.
So I fail to see any semblance of credibility when you are reinforcing a system that is already a proven failure.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2020, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.
Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?
Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.
I would equate a TD to an MP who earns around 90k a year.. a MLA would be a level above a councilor who does it for free (ish)
There's certainly merit to that when there was no assembly there for a huge amount of time, but in general terms MLAs are the equivalent of a TD.
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 01:29:28 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 28, 2020, 01:23:54 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:22:05 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on August 28, 2020, 12:14:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
Yeah down south. Isnt that where SF constantly give out aboutTD wage rises etc? They seem to send one message out where they aren't in govt but actually support the opposite where they are in power.
Can they actively do anything with respect to the MLA salaries?
Also worth noting that MLAs are paid around £50k a year which probably equates to €56k. TDs down south get paid €96k a year so proportionately they get paid 70% higher than O6 MLAs.
I would equate a TD to an MP who earns around 90k a year.. a MLA would be a level above a councilor who does it for free (ish)
There's certainly merit to that when there was no assembly there for a huge amount of time, but in general terms MLAs are the equivalent of a TD.
Jesus, there are some fuckwits earning handy money for 3 years before they came back! to a pay rise ;D
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:23:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics
By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all
But that wouldn't be very sensible
What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics
If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well
I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.
You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?
You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts
What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics
You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background
Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy
This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose
This is fairly basic stuff
If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you
Was John Hume not paid peanuts when he entered politics?
When you look at the class of politician don't south, paying them a kings ransom also seems to attract monkeys, monkeys who are only interested in lining their own pockets too.
What I am proposing is the end of career politicians and the returns of community activists and open it up for those who see it as a vocation to change society for the better and not an avenue where they can use government jets, stay in top hotels, get wined and dined in the finest restaurants and further line their own pockets. We currently have a system of politics where politicans are extremely well remunerated and seem to be completely and utterly incompetent in fixing or addressing the failings in society.
So I fail to see any semblance of credibility when you are reinforcing a system that is already a proven failure.
This is just sloganeering with no handle on reality
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 03:04:53 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 01:27:57 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:35:33 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:23:58 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 12:17:20 PM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 12:06:13 PM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:57:32 AM
Quote from: Angelo on August 28, 2020, 11:50:43 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on August 28, 2020, 11:32:23 AM
Quote from: sid waddell on August 28, 2020, 11:19:44 AM
What would people here suggest is a fair salary for a politician?
Actual figures, like
You can set out figures for each of the following: TDs, ministers, Taoiseach, MLAs and ministers in the north
Just wondering because it seems to me a lot of people moan about what politicians are paid, yet they never suggest a figure for what they should be paid
I'd suggest the average industrial wage ;D ;D ;D
(barring book deals and the likes)
That doesn't seem very sensible to me
Why?
Politicians should be in their role as community activists, not as people on a career gravy train.
If you look down south, where the salaries are much higher, the narrative that you need a good salary to attract the best candidates doesn't seem to stack up when you have a load of yokels romping home as poll toppers.
Career politics and the gravy train element needs to be eradicated but would a turkey vote for Christmas?
For the simple reason that politics is a very time consuming, highly demanding, extremely stressful job with immense responsibility and poor job security
If you pay peanuts you get monkeys and all that
If you want to run a country into the ground, by all means advocate for paying politicians the average industrial wage, but don't complain when society goes to shit
And if you pay in bars of gold you still get monkeys.
It should be a vocation, it should be for people who want to go in and make a difference to society - not for people who want to milk the state, screw the tax payer, massage their ego, use government jets and nip off to any junket going. And when you make the compensation for being a high level politician very lucrative then you have people who will act in their own interests rather than that of the people who elect them.
Take a worker, what's his motivation for taking on/going for a well remunerated job - what he can get out of it himself or what he can do for his company?
You fundamentally misunderstand both human nature and basic economics
By your logic, we could just as easily pay politicians nothing at all
But that wouldn't be very sensible
What you want would lead to a complete takeover of politics by the corporate and moneyed classes, because they would then be the only people who could afford to go into politics
If you want any sort of a healthy democracy, you have to pay politicians well
I believe if a person is getting into politics for their own gain and interests then their ability or will to have a positive impact on society is deeply flawed as their interests are much more likely to have ulterior motives.
You're a big fan of John Hume, do you think the remuneration of the job attracted John Hume to politics or do you think it was the ability to make a positive impact on society that motivated him?
You won't attract people who want to make a positive impact on society into politics if you pay them nothing, or pay them peanuts
What you are proposing is to erect a massive barrier to people who want to make a real and positive impact getting into politics
You're automatically ruling out anybody not from a wealthy background
Thus you get a politics which is entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes - and a politics entirely dominated by the corporate, moneyed classes is also called a kleptocracy or a plutocracy
This is already a problem as it is - to varying degrees across different countries - but would become exponentially larger under what you propose
This is fairly basic stuff
If you want a Russian-style kleptocratic politics, as it appears is the case, well, that's your opinion and your right to hold that opinion, but I doubt many would agree with you
Was John Hume not paid peanuts when he entered politics?
When you look at the class of politician don't south, paying them a kings ransom also seems to attract monkeys, monkeys who are only interested in lining their own pockets too.
What I am proposing is the end of career politicians and the returns of community activists and open it up for those who see it as a vocation to change society for the better and not an avenue where they can use government jets, stay in top hotels, get wined and dined in the finest restaurants and further line their own pockets. We currently have a system of politics where politicans are extremely well remunerated and seem to be completely and utterly incompetent in fixing or addressing the failings in society.
So I fail to see any semblance of credibility when you are reinforcing a system that is already a proven failure.
This is just sloganeering with no handle on reality
Yet you're the one defending monkeys getting paid a fortune?
the sick counties are an absolute disaster of a place, it will take hundreds of years to correct, questionable even if then :(
Pay rises - it's the only thing they've ever agreed on.
Jobs for the lads.
It's hardly shocking like.
If you think these pay scale and expenses increases are outrageous, then remember this when the next election comes round:
"The changes were supported by DUP, Sinn Féin and the SDLP."
It's in your own hands, guys.
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 07:05:20 PM
If you think these pay scale and expenses increases are outrageous, then remember this when the next election comes round:
"The changes were supported by DUP, Sinn Féin and the SDLP."
It's in your own hands, guys.
But that's simple, be the party that votes against it, knowing fine well there'll be plenty voting for it..
Easy to do the numbers on that one, and come out looking just!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on August 29, 2020, 11:10:13 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on August 28, 2020, 07:05:20 PM
If you think these pay scale and expenses increases are outrageous, then remember this when the next election comes round:
"The changes were supported by DUP, Sinn Féin and the SDLP."
It's in your own hands, guys.
But that's simple, be the party that votes against it, knowing fine well there'll be plenty voting for it..
Easy to do the numbers on that one, and come out looking just!
If 1 or 2 of those 3 had votes against it, it would not have been a token gesture.
They talk to each other.... they may argue over stuff but I'd say when giving themselves a few bob they'll be best buddies!