Armagh - The Postmortem and The Future

[AFS]

OK, so a wee thread to tide us over for the next few days until we find out the identity of our next opponent.

So for me there are few issue for the next day out:

1) Who do we want to get?

For me there are three teams that I'd worry about facing, namely Kerry, Tyrone and Monaghan.

There are also three teams that I wouldn't lose any sleep over having to face -  Kildare, Wexford or Down.

Mayo are our only other potential opponent and I really don't know what to make of them, however I expect Tyrone to render this question irrelevant at the weekend anyway.

2) Where will the match be played?

This is a bit of a ridiculous situation that would only be allowed happen in the GAA, where supporters will only find out when and where the next match is to be held 6, max. 7, days beforehand. How are people that work weekends, or people that like to make a weekend break of a match, or indeed the teams involved, supposed to prepare themselves properly in the space of 6 days?  

Thats my rant over anyway, so we're left to speculate:

If its Down or Monaghan I'd say the match will be in Clones on the 10th.
If its Wexford or Kildare it could be down the country somewhere like Navan or Mullingar (although questions would have to be asked if these grounds are large enough) on the 10th.
If its Kerry or Tyrone I can't see them playing this outside of Croker such will be the interest, possibly putting it off until the weekend of the 16th/17th.
If its Mayo Clones would suffice but Mayo are unlikely to agree to this. Breffni would be half way roughly but might not be large enough. Its likely this game would also have to be rescheduled for the 16th/17th weekend at Croker.

3) Andy Mallon's replacement?

Andy's injury is a massive blow. Andy is the guy we would have had on the Gooch or Alan Brogan if/when we come up against the Dubs or Kerry. In his absence Finn Mo and Francie are going to have a lot more questions asked of them. To date both have preformed fine however neither have come up against opponents of the quality that they will face from now on (the likes of Shane McCabe, John Clarke and Liam McBarron are not in the same league as Tommy Freeman, Mattie Forde, Alan Brogan, Padraig Joyce, etc.).

Paul Kernan would seem to be in pole position to come in at corner back seeing since he was the choice of replacement in the Fermanagh replay, but I still have my doubts over his current ability. He wasn't really tested as Fermanagh wilted in the second half of that match, and by my recollection its only six months ago or so, while playing for Cross down in Navan, that he was given the absolute run around by some boy in his thirties who'd never played county football.

Enda is another option according to Peter McDonnell, but I doubt whether he is serious about playing a guy that he hasn't offered a minute's football to since early March.

Brendan Donaghy is the last option. Initially I was surprised not to see him replace Andy on Sunday but the more I thought about it the more sense it made. Donaghy is a guy I rate very highly as a footballer but he is NOT a corner back, and PMcD's reluctance to play him in this position would suggest that he agrees. I've seen Donaghy play very well in the half back line in the championship this year against Down and last year against Donegal and at full back several times during the league this year. But I've also seen him play very poorly when isolated at corner back against Cork in the U21 semi final last year and against Derry in the championship last year.

So for me the best option is to move C McKeever into the full back line as he is our next best man marker after Andy and play Donaghy in the half back line. I know that this means we will lose McKeever's ability to drive forward but I think at the minute he more needed to play a suffocating man marking role rather than an attacking one.

4) Has Tony Kernan done enough to keep his place in the team?

His performance against Fermanagh was a 6/10 one if I've ever seen one. By this I mean he did grand but was not spectacular. The ace up his sleeve is his free taking ability from the right side. At the minute, without a fit Oisin, we don't seem to have any good alternatives from this side. Stevie had been taking them up until last Sunday but he's very hit and miss. Stephen Kernan is Tony's main challenger for this spot and would seem to offer more form open play. If only we could combine the two, you'd get something close to Oisin in his prime. Alas, we can't so a choice must be made and the simple question is: Is Tony's free taking worth more than Stephen's contributions from play?

[Hound]

If its Mayo Clones would suffice but Mayo are unlikely to agree to this. Breffni would be half way roughly but might not be large enough. Its likely this game would also have to be rescheduled for the 16th/17th weekend at Croker.

Qualifiers play where they are told to play. The can moan all they like but they can't object. Since quarter-finals were introduced I don't recall one instance where a provincial champion played outside their own province in the quarters - other than in Croke Park of course. Sure even when the Dubs are in the qualifiers they send us to such outposts as Carrick, Clones and Thurles........ 

But its a good point about possible rescheduling to 16th/17th to get Croker, given the semi is 2 weeks after that.

[Our Nail Loney]

Kenny Archer seems to think that youse are gonna get the winners of us and wexford in the irish news today

[DUBSFORSAM1]

If its Mayo Clones would suffice but Mayo are unlikely to agree to this. Breffni would be half way roughly but might not be large enough. Its likely this game would also have to be rescheduled for the 16th/17th weekend at Croker.

Qualifiers play where they are told to play. The can moan all they like but they can't object. Since quarter-finals were introduced I don't recall one instance where a provincial champion played outside their own province in the quarters - other than in Croke Park of course. Sure even when the Dubs are in the qualifiers they send us to such outposts as Carrick, Clones and Thurles........ 

But its a good point about possible rescheduling to 16th/17th to get Croker, given the semi is 2 weeks after that.

The problem with waiting till the 16th/17th is what happens if there is a draw...

[armaghniac]

Since quarter-finals were introduced I don't recall one instance where a provincial champion played outside their own province in the quarters

er Sligo v Armagh in Navan, after a whine from Sligo about Clones.

It seems to me that the best plan is a double bill in Croker on the 9th, e.g. Armagh v Mayo and Galway v Monaghan, a Cork game on the Sunday and Dublin to be the following week. Yes Dublin are a week later, but they get the stadium to themselves. Everyone else is prepared to work a double bill.

[Armamike]

Wouldn't want to get Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo, Monaghan at this stage.  Another game with Down would be interesting, and the thought of meeting a McGeeney managed Kildare would be very strange.

Wouldn't be too fussed where the match is held. If we draw Kerry i'd be much more confident of our chances if the game was in Clones.

Andy Mallon is a big loss, but it's one that we may be able to work around. I like the idea of moving McKeever back to corner back - he more or less played there before for us if i remember, against Stephen O'Neill in 2005? Donaghy would slot in very well at half back and he would be able to get forward as much as McKeever would.  The thought of Paul Kernan at corner back worries me. Judging by the game time he got in the league he's not ready yet. He probably will improve a lot but as things stand he could get one hell of a roasting in Croke park.

Stephen Kernan probably deserves his place more so than Tony, on the evidence of the games to date and the scores he has created and taken himself.  Still doesn't solve the frees problem though.

[balladmaker]

If it turned out to be Armagh v Monaghan, I wonder would they schedule it for Clones.  I suppose Clones is a home field for one of them and as good as a home field to the other.  Armagh wouldn't have any objections anyway.

Roll on this weekend, some great games in store, particularly Monaghan v Kerry!   Mouthwatering stuff.  

[Rossfan]

. Since quarter-finals were introduced I don't recall one instance where a provincial champion played outside their own province in the quarters - other than in Croke Park of course.

Your memory obviously doesnt stretch to 2001 so.  

Roscommon the Connacht Champions were made play Galway in the Quarter Final in Castlebar and I think Tyrone the Ulster Champions had to play their Quarter Final v Derry(?) in Clones. And of course Kerry v Dublin was in Thurles.

[corn02]

I don't see us winning an All-Ireland will P Kernan in corner back. I don't think he is up to that standard in my opinion. The man I would like to see in is Donaghy. He has hardly put a foot wrong in an Armagh shirt and would be my pick for the corner.

I would start Stephen ahead of Tony. McDonnell has a fairly good record from frees and AK is deadsly from inside 40 on the left. SK probably offers a lot more from play than Tony, although some of Tonys passing was very clever on Sunday.

Who would I want? Down, simple as that. The one team I am hoping for and I am sounding very cocky but I could not fathom them beating us.

I would fear two teams, Tyrone and Kerry. Keery for obvious reasons, but I can not get over how people are writing off Tyrone. Ok there squad sheet is nowhere near as intimidating, but they still have a great team.

Where?

Don't care. Of the 15 starting, plus subs, last Sunday I think only P. Kernan and Toner have not run out in Croker. Perhaps P Kernan has bneen part of a Cross squad that has made it to Croker, maybe BC or Crossfire can confirm. Was he on the minor winning side in 05?

These lads have been there, done that.

[AFS]

Don't care. Of the 15 starting, plus subs, last Sunday I think only P. Kernan and Toner have not run out in Croker. Perhaps P Kernan has bneen part of a Cross squad that has made it to Croker, maybe BC or Crossfire can confirm. Was he on the minor winning side in 05?

These lads have been there, done that.

Paul Kernan and Toner were both on the team that won the Ulster Minor title there in 2005. I don't think Finn Mo, Vernon, Donaghy or Tony Kernan have played there yet though.

[mackers]

Wouldn't want to get Kerry, Tyrone, Mayo, Monaghan at this stage.  Another game with Down would be interesting, and the thought of meeting a McGeeney managed Kildare would be very strange.

Wouldn't be too fussed where the match is held. If we draw Kerry i'd be much more confident of our chances if the game was in Clones.

Andy Mallon is a big loss, but it's one that we may be able to work around. I like the idea of moving McKeever back to corner back - he more or less played there before for us if i remember, against Stephen O'Neill in 2005? Donaghy would slot in very well at half back and he would be able to get forward as much as McKeever would.  The thought of Paul Kernan at corner back worries me. Judging by the game time he got in the league he's not ready yet. He probably will improve a lot but as things stand he could get one hell of a roasting in Croke park.
Stephen Kernan probably deserves his place more so than Tony, on the evidence of the games to date and the scores he has created and taken himself.  Still doesn't solve the frees problem though.

I think that is the best option, PK does worry me at this point. I have seen him roasted quite a bit, the AI club semi, the AI u21 semi last year to name two. He did do a good job on Gooch in the AI club final replay and on Gilligan in the Ulster club final which does show potential for the future but I think this year is too early for him. Moving C McKeever into the corner does take a lot from his game though. Enda's days are numbered I think.
The wide open spaces of Croker (if we get there) would suit Stephen Kernan, Tony Kernan doesn't do enough in general play for me and should only come on if Stevie is suffering on the frees.
As to who we want I would only worry about playing the winners of the Kerry/Monaghan match unless Tyrone improve big style against Mayo.

[Hound]

. Since quarter-finals were introduced I don't recall one instance where a provincial champion played outside their own province in the quarters - other than in Croke Park of course.

Your memory obviously doesnt stretch to 2001 so.  

Roscommon the Connacht Champions were made play Galway in the Quarter Final in Castlebar and I think Tyrone the Ulster Champions had to play their Quarter Final v Derry(?) in Clones. And of course Kerry v Dublin was in Thurles.

Your geography knowledge obviously doesn't stretch beyond senior infants 
For your information:
Roscommon and Castelbar are both in Connacht
Tyrone and Clones are both in Ulster
Kerry and Thurles are both in Munster

However a poster above pointed out there was one exception regarding Armagh one year.

[armaghniac]

A game in Ulster between two Ulster teams (I think the Tyrone/Derry game might have been in Casement) or a game in Connacht between two Connacht teams isn't very controversial. Even Thurles is not too controversial as it is not a traditional football venue and it is the largest stadium outside Croke Pk. What will cause a problem is a game between two teams from different provinces, which is not played in Croke Pk.

[Yes I Would]

Agree the loss of Mallon is massive. Probably the most consistent performer over this past 4/5 years.
Its horses for courses,though and i feel that Mc Keever has to be the man marker for the dangermen from here on in, with Donaghy coming into wing half.
Watched the replayed final again tonight, and level of performance needs to be raised considerably! even if it is Down again

[stew]

Who would I want? Down, simple as that. The one team I am hoping for and I am sounding very cocky but I could not fathom them beating us.


That is precisely why i dont want Down. Armagh can never, and I mean never afford to be over confident against anyone. I couldnt fathom fermanagh beating us but it happened, ne i have been watching armagh since 1974 and should have known better.

Tyrone will do me, failing that Monaghan.