Armagh Club football & hurling

[corn02]

Win you made two posts, first one was ridiculous, second one was a good post.

Unlike you Aghdavoyle i don't think scoring freely and heavily are the same thing. You use the term heavily i have never mentioned this. I am refering to pressure on the opposing team to score points. Whilst playing against the Cross defence you have a very small window of opportunity to put the ball over the bar or if you are lucky in the net.This is how they beat most teams because they stop you scoring. Whilst i was playing againsy Dromintee we had more time on the ball all around the pitch and that included some freely taken points from play (even in the championship games you refer too). I could write on the back of a stamp the amount of times this has happened against cross.

Everytime there is an argument about the Cross the Dromintee lads come on and spout about a record that contains at least 7 loses and one draw. Hardly a record worth boasting about and similar to the argument of who is second best ie totally irrelevant and meaningless. I also seem to remember the championship game a few years back in Silverbridge when Dromintee only managed to equate a mere 4 or 5 points against a cross defence simlilar to the clans last year. I will never be on here quoting records that span over a 9 year period with no wins in it.

I don't see where you picked up any Dromintee poster boasting about a record or arguing that we were second best, that has had nothing to do with the debate that has went on and you brought it up. I mentioned our games with Cross because seeing as the debate surrounds these two teams I felt it was the best indicator. Defensively if you keep Cross to under 13 points average, you must not be doing too bad considering they have this crazy ability to kick points from anywhere - and that is not just there forwards, you can throw midfield and half backs into that. (ok Clarke and Donaldson excluded  ).

Having been at all these matches bar one it is safe to say that there have been countless occassions of Dromintee forwards kicking wide when probably should have scored and Cross men, McEntee especially, kicking points that they had no right too.

As I said, I see very little between the rearguards, even with Kevy excluded. Crossmaglen's wide percentage over the last decade is probably the lowest you would see for a club team.

I really don't remember Clans moving freely against us over the last few years. We have only met a couple of times and none have been high-scoring games. In fact Cross' 2-10 kicked against us in 02 is the biggest tally we have conceded in Championship football since our first metting with Cross in 01. (I could be proved wrong here, but nothing is sticking out.)

BTW, we didn;t manager a mere four or five points, we managed two. 

On your first point did it ever strike you that we just weren't good enough to score  However this doesn't take away from the fact that the opportunity was there. Certainly more readily than it would have been if were had been playing cross. If you start a poll on this thread asking which defence would you rather play against and for arguments sake put in Cross and Dromintee (simply because this is what we are talking about) I would say that most people would rather play against Dromintee (it is nothing to do with Bias Corn i happen to know a lot of decent players from dromintee and i have a lot more respect for them than some other clubs)

Your second point about refering to records. That can be attributed to Corn it was his good self that mentioned the stat. So I don't see how you can call anyone stupid. Someone mentioned Dyas and Shannon and even Mc Ardle . IMHO they were more play makers than actually man markers. Dyas was an exceptional talent but again imo all his best work was done going forward. Shannon was the same . Mc Ardle was a bit more wirey and could do a man marking job but as a defensive unit the Cross were far superior.By saying this i don't mean the Dromintee lads were a bad lot but i am simply saying that Cross as a Defensive unit were superior and still are superior to any team in the county. It has been this that have led the foundation for their successes. The reason Dromintee have run cross so close is because they have decent footballers all over the field. Arguably as talented as Cross But the reason they have came up short is the fact that they are not as well drilled and no where near efficient. Cross could win any game with about 40% of possession. Why? because they can grind out results and their defensive qualities (including forwards tarcking back) is top class. Other teams in Armagh may win the odd game with that stat but Cross would win them all if they had to.

A better effort indeed.
Your first point about Clans not being good enough to score can maybe answer the Dromintee conodrum against Cross - missing chances we should have scored.

Of course everybody would want to face Dromintee, Cross are the best, no question, nobody is questioning that in the slightest.

Indeed Shannon and McArdle are ver ygood going forward, but they are very capably defeensively. Shannon has become a bit more conservative and McConville and McArdle had a couple of great battles.

For Dyas I have to disagree. He was the total package, his tackling/defensive duties were as impressive as his attacking abilities in my opinion. Someo f the tackles he put in over the last couple of years were first class.

I think you sort of counter your own argument when you say nobody is as efficient as Cross - exactly my point, particuarly in the shooting division.

[brokencrossbar1]

I'll tell you what corn and Aghdavoyle, you probably do have a better defence, of which you are proud.  Can I exchange 5 of my medals to be in that defence?

[corn02]

I'll tell you what corn and Aghdavoyle, you probably do have a better defence, of which you are proud.  Can I exchange 5 of my medals to be in that defence?

Boom boom, knew that would come from you.

Once again I never said we had a better defence.

[brokencrossbar1]

I am being facetious corn because it is a futile argument.  I have no doubt that Dromintee are good but as a unit we have always built our strenght on stopping teams scoring.  Every game in Armagh and also in Ulster are vey tight as most teams put out their stall to stop us playing instead of trying to win the game.  As a result they are low scoring games. Whenever teams play football then we can outscore them as well.

At the end of the day Cross are hard to beat, as are Dromintee, but it means feck all useless you win.

[corn02]

At the end of the day Cross are hard to beat, as are Dromintee, but it means feck all useless you win.

True, true.

I still think there is little between the defences.

Stop showing off with your big words!

[pintsofguinness]

So now we're on to who has the best defence?

Have we decided on who's second best yet?

[ogshead]

So now we're on to who has the best defence?

Have we decided on who's second best yet?

[winsamsoon]

at the risk of being on the same level as the silverbridge v cullyhanna debate i will hang them up on this one.(aghdavoyle you can take this as a sign that i am conceeding if you wish in your petty little fight for  good against evil)  climb down

[crossfire]

BC1
Why didn't you stay out of this. I was really enjoying it.

[3000 miles away]

well lads new to all this craic but find the last few pages of debate interesting, if i could add my pennies worth to the debate, i agree about the step up from club to county is bigger than most think, as an example Stephen o neill is this years all ireland, he was posting big scores all summer with his club and although he was ok in the all ireland he wasnt the stephen o neill we would have seen if he had been with the county all year. The cross players although they are playing at a high level during the all ireland club i think for the younger fellas looking to break into the team,their success with cross curtails there chance to impress mc donell and co. on the subject of peader toal, with the proper coaching and application this fella is a super footballer, a bit of a loose cannon yes but thats part and parcel of the man, if he got his head right and few games under his belt he could be one link in the chain of gettin the half forward line back to its primary job. he might not have the commitment of john mc entee of some of his other attribtes but his left foot (i think) is just as sweet and he can kick long distance scores which we need to get back. i'll have a stab at the team for the tyrone game.
                       

                                 P HEARTY
PMCKEOWN/FINN MO    B DONAGHY    A MALLON

A KERNAN                    C MC KEEVER  AN OTHER

                P MC GRANE             D MCKENNA/J LAVERY

P TOAL                      B MALLON        M O ROURKE

S MC DONNELL            R CLARKE        T KERNAN/S FORKER

[rosskarr]

well lads new to all this craic but find the last few pages of debate interesting, if i could add my pennies worth to the debate, i agree about the step up from club to county is bigger than most think, as an example Stephen o neill is this years all ireland, he was posting big scores all summer with his club and although he was ok in the all ireland he wasnt the stephen o neill we would have seen if he had been with the county all year. The cross players although they are playing at a high level during the all ireland club i think for the younger fellas looking to break into the team,their success with cross curtails there chance to impress mc donell and co. on the subject of peader toal, with the proper coaching and application this fella is a super footballer, a bit of a loose cannon yes but thats part and parcel of the man, if he got his head right and few games under his belt he could be one link in the chain of gettin the half forward line back to its primary job. he might not have the commitment of john mc entee of some of his other attribtes but his left foot (i think) is just as sweet and he can kick long distance scores which we need to get back. i'll have a stab at the team for the tyrone game.
                       

                                 P HEARTY
PMCKEOWN/FINN MO    B DONAGHY    A MALLON

A KERNAN                    C MC KEEVER  AN OTHER

                P MC GRANE             D MCKENNA/J LAVERY

P TOAL                      B MALLON        M O ROURKE

S MC DONNELL            R CLARKE        T KERNAN/S FORKER

   You must be 3000 miles away up in space!    No Charlie Vernon?

[full back]

as an example Stephen o neill is this years all ireland, he was posting big scores all summer with his club and although he was ok in the all ireland he wasnt the stephen o neill we would have seen if he had been with the county all year.

Bit of a difference playing Intermediate/2nd best grade football for Clan na Gael & playing for Cross

[The GAA]

During the summer, cross players aren't exposed to any higher standard of football than any other club in armagh

[crossfire]

well lads new to all this craic but find the last few pages of debate interesting, if i could add my pennies worth to the debate, i agree about the step up from club to county is bigger than most think, as an example Stephen o neill is this years all ireland, he was posting big scores all summer with his club and although he was ok in the all ireland he wasnt the stephen o neill we would have seen if he had been with the county all year. The cross players although they are playing at a high level during the all ireland club i think for the younger fellas looking to break into the team,their success with cross curtails there chance to impress mc donell and co. on the subject of peader toal, with the proper coaching and application this fella is a super footballer, a bit of a loose cannon yes but thats part and parcel of the man, if he got his head right and few games under his belt he could be one link in the chain of gettin the half forward line back to its primary job. he might not have the commitment of john mc entee of some of his other attribtes but his left foot (i think) is just as sweet and he can kick long distance scores which we need to get back. i'll have a stab at the team for the tyrone game.
                       

                                 P HEARTY
PMCKEOWN/FINN MO    B DONAGHY    A MALLON

A KERNAN                    C MC KEEVER  AN OTHER

                P MC GRANE             D MCKENNA/J LAVERY

P TOAL                      B MALLON        M O ROURKE

S MC DONNELL            R CLARKE        T KERNAN/S FORKER

   You must be 3000 miles away up in space!    No Charlie Vernon?

And no Kieran Toner

[yellowcard]

well lads new to all this craic but find the last few pages of debate interesting, if i could add my pennies worth to the debate, i agree about the step up from club to county is bigger than most think, as an example Stephen o neill is this years all ireland, he was posting big scores all summer with his club and although he was ok in the all ireland he wasnt the stephen o neill we would have seen if he had been with the county all year. The cross players although they are playing at a high level during the all ireland club i think for the younger fellas looking to break into the team,their success with cross curtails there chance to impress mc donell and co. on the subject of peader toal, with the proper coaching and application this fella is a super footballer, a bit of a loose cannon yes but thats part and parcel of the man, if he got his head right and few games under his belt he could be one link in the chain of gettin the half forward line back to its primary job. he might not have the commitment of john mc entee of some of his other attribtes but his left foot (i think) is just as sweet and he can kick long distance scores which we need to get back. i'll have a stab at the team for the tyrone game.
                       

                                 P HEARTY
PMCKEOWN/FINN MO    B DONAGHY    A MALLON

A KERNAN                    C MC KEEVER  AN OTHER

                P MC GRANE             D MCKENNA/J LAVERY

P TOAL                      B MALLON        M O ROURKE

S MC DONNELL            R CLARKE        T KERNAN/S FORKER

Surely this team has to include K Toner & definitely Vernon. Otherwise a sound looking team.