Armagh Club football & hurling

[Aghdavoyle]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

[amigo]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

In my opinion, as defenders Moriarty and Toner wouldn't lace their boots!!! Only my opinion i might add!!

[Goats Do Shave]

I would fear the "jump" from club level to county level least when Cross are concerned!

[corn02]

Vernon can't play in the half back line, forget about that. AK won't play in the h forwards either from what i hear. toner and donaghy can both play in the full or half back line surely? and toner might be the next best option at 6.

is there any insight to whether francie will be making himself available?

EH?

Haven't seen much McKenna cup football but i'd be happy with a championship team something like:

Hearty
an other Toner  Mallon
Donaghy O'Rourke McKeever
      McGrane   McKenna
O'Rourke Mallon  Vernon
McDonnell Clarke Henderson

No Ak, seriously?

[Aghdavoyle]

OOps... meant to have him half forward. couldn't figure out how vernon was still making my team when i was picking it! don't ever give me a job...

[Aghdavoyle]

I would fear the "jump" from club level to county level least when Cross are concerned!

A very common mistake

[brokencrossbar1]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

In comparison to whom?  Shannon? Vincie Martin?  I can tell you that Skinny would have no fear in adapting.  I will go out on a limb here and say that any of the 6 Cross backs would fit into the Armagh defence without any issue.  As Goats says they are best adapted at making the jump to county football.  I will call a spade a spade.  They play at a higher level regulalry than any other club player, they train at a higher level than many county players, they do a lot of work on their own and have an unbelievable self confidence in themselves and each other that they are all capable of playing at the highest level.  There are obviously better players than some of them in Armagh, but not too many.  Their belief in the fact that they are the best is an asset that many players who try to make it to the county set up lack and consequently they never really show their potential.  

[AFS]

Guys I don't know where yous are getting Toner at FB from. McDonnell has never played him in there from what I can remember, not even when they were with the U21s. On the other hand McDonnell has nearly always played Donaghy at FB. Its a no-brainer for me what way it'll work out- Donaghy at FB, Toner at midfield if they both play.

McDonnell won't ditch Finn Mo either, he loves the lad. Even when Finn was playing shite at the start of last year McDonnell still had him out week after week. Finn started every single game for Armagh, challenge matches and all, in the last calender year - about 20 games in a row.

On the showings so far this year I wouldn't be too confident of a new super duper attacking approach this year either. The same auld shite is still happening with two men isolated up front and the likes of Mallon and O'Rourke hanging about the HB line.

[corn02]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

In comparison to whom?  Shannon? Vincie Martin?  I can tell you that Skinny would have no fear in adapting.  I will go out on a limb here and say that any of the 6 Cross backs would fit into the Armagh defence without any issue.  As Goats says they are best adapted at making the jump to county football.  I will call a spade a spade.  They play at a higher level regulalry than any other club player, they train at a higher level than many county players, they do a lot of work on their own and have an unbelievable self confidence in themselves and each other that they are all capable of playing at the highest level.  There are obviously better players than some of them in Armagh, but not too many.  Their belief in the fact that they are the best is an asset that many players who try to make it to the county set up lack and consequently they never really show their potential.  

I would have them too over Skinny any day BC to be honest. He got the biggest roasting I have ever seen a Cross player getting against MOR in the Champiosnhip two years ago. Yous destroyed us in the league this year, I think we scored four points or something, his man got three from play.

John Donaldson is arguably the best club defender about, but it didn;t work out at county, it is churlish to suggest that he would automatica;lly make it just because he is from Cross and has the confidence that he would make it.

[Aghdavoyle]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

In comparison to whom?  Shannon? Vincie Martin?  I can tell you that Skinny would have no fear in adapting.  I will go out on a limb here and say that any of the 6 Cross backs would fit into the Armagh defence without any issue.  As Goats says they are best adapted at making the jump to county football.  I will call a spade a spade.  They play at a higher level regulalry than any other club player, they train at a higher level than many county players, they do a lot of work on their own and have an unbelievable self confidence in themselves and each other that they are all capable of playing at the highest level.  There are obviously better players than some of them in Armagh, but not too many.  Their belief in the fact that they are the best is an asset that many players who try to make it to the county set up lack and consequently they never really show their potential.  

You're being disingenuous there bc - i'm not wearing my club hat at all. McKeown is a fantastic marker at club level but if h were not from cross would he be touted for a county trial? i doubt it. where i see him falling down at the highest level is with the ball in his hand. he would not be able to use the ball well enough under pressure and that is on top of the higher calibre of player tobe marked.

you see it the length and breadth of the country - club champions always have a clatter of players on county squads. a player has to be very very good at club level to play county football. the common mistake i refer to is county managers taking a good club player from a successful team over a good club player from a bad club side. The surroundings and responsibilities of both players are different but its the substance of the player that should count, not an accident of birth. there is actually a strong case to be made that a player from a lesser club is better prepared for county football as he is better prepared for taking responsibility and handling expectation.

Since you now feel the need to argue, i have to say that you have no earthly way of knowing how the trainig and work rate of the cross players you mention staks up against that done by our county players.

Also, since you want to be parochial, i would argue that dromintee have a superior defence to crossmaglen.

[corn02]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

In comparison to whom?  Shannon? Vincie Martin?  I can tell you that Skinny would have no fear in adapting.  I will go out on a limb here and say that any of the 6 Cross backs would fit into the Armagh defence without any issue.  As Goats says they are best adapted at making the jump to county football.  I will call a spade a spade.  They play at a higher level regulalry than any other club player, they train at a higher level than many county players, they do a lot of work on their own and have an unbelievable self confidence in themselves and each other that they are all capable of playing at the highest level.  There are obviously better players than some of them in Armagh, but not too many.  Their belief in the fact that they are the best is an asset that many players who try to make it to the county set up lack and consequently they never really show their potential.  

Also, since you want to be parochial, i would argue that dromintee have a superior defence to crossmaglen.

Oh jesus here we go.....actually there is very little between the defences, Dromintee's problem has always been not scoring enough against Cross, but, please,please,please, let's not get into this.


BC I will call you up on the suggestion that Cross players do more than county players, that can;t be known, but I would be confident that tje average Dromintee player would do as much as the average Cross player.

[charlie stubbs]

I think Paul Kernan and Brendan McKeown are good enough for starting slots!! Going on what i have seen of them in the past few seasons!!!

Is that "skinny"? a v good club marker but not fit for county football imho

In comparison to whom?  Shannon? Vincie Martin?  I can tell you that Skinny would have no fear in adapting.  I will go out on a limb here and say that any of the 6 Cross backs would fit into the Armagh defence without any issue.  As Goats says they are best adapted at making the jump to county football.  I will call a spade a spade.  They play at a higher level regulalry than any other club player, they train at a higher level than many county players, they do a lot of work on their own and have an unbelievable self confidence in themselves and each other that they are all capable of playing at the highest level.  There are obviously better players than some of them in Armagh, but not too many.  Their belief in the fact that they are the best is an asset that many players who try to make it to the county set up lack and consequently they never really show their potential.  

I would have them too over Skinny any day BC to be honest. He got the biggest roasting I have ever seen a Cross player getting against MOR in the Champiosnhip two years ago. Yous destroyed us in the league this year, I think we scored four points or something, his man got three from play.

John Donaldson is arguably the best club defender about, but it didn;t work out at county, it is churlish to suggest that he would automatica;lly make it just because he is from Cross and has the confidence that he would make it.

good point

[brokencrossbar1]

I have watched a number of county teams training, at a fairly high level and trust me, I did harder, more intense training than they did 10 years ago!  I am not making it parochial just to get a dig at Dromintee.  The reality is that Cross players have played consistently at a higher level over the last number of years than any other average club player in Armagh.  Consequently they have reached a level of game fitness and strength that other players will not have reached.  Coupled to the confidence that winning brings, I would argue that they would find it easier to adapt to county footballers than others.  As I said tehre are better footballers than some of the players mentioned, but good footballers don't always make the cut for a variety of reasons.


Corn you can isolate individual games all you like and pick out instances where palyers get a roastimg, but I have seen skinny have more good games than bad and I feel that him coming back into the defence for Cross was a significant factor during the Ulster campaign.  As regards JD, I don't think he would be a stand out player at county level the way he is at club, but I also don't think he would look out of place.


As for the Dromintee defence being better than Cross, fair enough, but I reckon that results would show differently.

[corn02]

I have watched a number of county teams training, at a fairly high level and trust me, I did harder, more intense training than they did 10 years ago!  I am not making it parochial just to get a dig at Dromintee.  The reality is that Cross players have played consistently at a higher level over the last number of years than any other average club player in Armagh.  Consequently they have reached a level of game fitness and strength that other players will not have reached.  Coupled to the confidence that winning brings, I would argue that they would find it easier to adapt to county footballers than others.  As I said tehre are better footballers than some of the players mentioned, but good footballers don't always make the cut for a variety of reasons.


Corn you can isolate individual games all you like and pick out instances where palyers get a roastimg, but I have seen skinny have more good games than bad and I feel that him coming back into the defence for Cross was a significant factor during the Ulster campaign.  As regards JD, I don't think he would be a stand out player at county level the way he is at club, but I also don't think he would look out of place.


As for the Dromintee defence being better than Cross, fair enough, but I reckon that results would show differently.

Results wouldn't really show different because a match is won by defenders, forwards and midfielders, so you can't just use results to say Cross have a better defence. By the way I am not saying Dromintee do, I am just saying there is very little between them and it is usualt Coss' better forward department that proves the difference.

Now I agree with you when they say they have played at a higher level and have, therefore, got to a new level, my point was that I would argue that they "do more work" than other club players.

Of course Skinny has had more good games, in fact, he is usually excellent as are most Cross defenders, I am just showing they are not infalible and being from Cross doesn't mean they would succeed. I haven't even said I don't think Skinny would be good enough, I would be willing to reserve judgment. A lot of people, myself included, jumped the gun re: SK, so I am more passive and will wait and see. That said, at the moment, I could not see him being a Championship player and I think his namesake is a much betteer prospect.

The JD point was an example of a Cross player not making a mark when he played county, it happens every club team. Arguably he is better player now, but we can only go on his county career.

Mickey McNamme is a weird one. Anyone who saw him at underage or for the Abbey would have saw him as a nailed on future county player, then he just went off the radar. But this year he is back with a bang and who knows what will happen. He will almost certainly egta  run in the league.

[bennydorano]

Guys I don't know where yous are getting Toner at FB from. McDonnell has never played him in there from what I can remember, not even when they were with the U21s. On the other hand McDonnell has nearly always played Donaghy at FB. Its a no-brainer for me what way it'll work out- Donaghy at FB, Toner at midfield if they both play.

He has played FB at U21, in fact did he not start at FB last year v Donegal in Ballybofey and move out to MF or vice versa?  I think his lack of pace could be exposed at FB(or CHB) moreso than at MF, but I really do think a fit David McKenna will start v Tyrone and Toner will be in the mix somewhere.