Armagh Club football & hurling

[brokencrossbar1]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

[under the bar]

It seems Armagh's new hurling manager is a St John's man from Antrim!

[Hank Everlast]

ARMAGH FOOTBALLERS BEGIN WITH WEXFORD TEST IN NFL

Armagh will commence their 2009 NFL Division Two campaign with an away game against All-Ireland quarter-final conquerors, Wexford, on Sunday 1st February.

Next up are two home games, under floodlights at the Athletic Grounds, Armagh, against Laois (Saturday 14th February) and Monaghan (Saturday 7th March).

Those first three matches will play a key role in determining whether Peter McDonnell's men can garner promotion out of Division Two, as thereafter Armagh has only one home fixture out of their remaining four matches.

They must travel to, defeated Ulster finalists, Fermanagh (Sunday 15th March) and Kieran McGeeney/Paul Grimley managed Kildare (Sunday 22nd March) before they entertain Meath at Floodlit Athletic Grounds on Saturday 28th March.

They make to long journey to the banks of the Lee to play Cork in their final group game on Sunday 12th April.

ARMAGH'S NFL FIXTURES – 2009

Sunday 1 February
Wexford v Armagh (2.30)

Saturday 14 February
Armagh v Laois (7.30)

Saturday 7 March
Armagh v Monaghan (7.30)

Sunday 15 March
Fermanagh v Armagh (2.30)

Sunday 22 March
Kildare v Armagh (2.30)

Saturday 28 March
Armagh v Meath (7.30)

Sunday 12 April
Cork v Armagh (2.30)

[winsamsoon]

Concerning the debate about development squads. I have one question BC if the Cross hadn't been so successful at senior level over the last 15 years do you think they would be encouraging young players from going to the development county squads?? Now i know you don't speak for  the current cross  managersBC but i would generally like to hear your views on this.  I think there has been a gradual battle between Cross and the county  becoming increasingly visible over the past few years. I think there is a touch of arrogance on the side of the Cross, because of there success i feel they sometimes think they can do whatever they want and the issue at hand is a further example. It seems they are saying to the young lads don't go to these county things stay at Cross and we will look after you because we are infact better than the county. Now this is great if that is the case but in the long run i think it will pose a few problems for the Cross. My club would be renowned for being arrogant and i will accept that (so i don' want to make this into a clans versus the rest of the county debate) But this has backfired on us. I would just be interested to hear the rest of the opinions on the subject.

[bennydorano]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

There's a good chance that this may sound ridculous but I firmly believe a Cross team without the Macs, JD, Bellew & Oisin will be ordinary and very beatable.  The likes of the Kernan brothers are all good players, but they'll certainly not strike fear into hearts the way JD and Bellew have done, and I think that's half the battle when playing Cross.

[corn02]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

There's a good chance that this may sound ridculous but I firmly believe a Cross team without the Macs, JD, Bellew & Oisin will be ordinary and very beatable.  The likes of the Kernan brothers are all good players, but they'll certainly not strike fear into hearts the way JD and Bellew have done, and I think that's half the battle when playing Cross.

Of course they will be beatable, that group of players was the best ever seen at Armagh club level, you can't just replace it. But I think people are missing the point, it may not harm Cross' development, but surely it wil lhurt Armagh's.

[brokencrossbar1]

benny, I have no doubt that when those players retire the cycle will slow down and Cross will find it harder to maintain the current level.  The thing is though, that Macs are 3-4 years away from club retirement, as are Oisin and Francie.  In the intervening 3-4 years the likes of David McKenna, Paul McKeown, Jamie Clarke, Ryan and Kyle Carragher will all have developed into established senior players.  Add those players onto the 4 Kernan's Brendan McKeown, Mickey McNamee, Johnny Hannratty, and you see where I am going here.  They may not have a run of wins like is happening at the minute, but I still think they will dominate.

Concerning the debate about development squads. I have one question BC if the Cross hadn't been so successful at senior level over the last 15 years do you think they would be encouraging young players from going to the development county squads?? Now i know you don't speak for  the current cross  managersBC but i would generally like to hear your views on this.  I think there has been a gradual battle between Cross and the county  becoming increasingly visible over the past few years. I think there is a touch of arrogance on the side of the Cross, because of there success i feel they sometimes think they can do whatever they want and the issue at hand is a further example. It seems they are saying to the young lads don't go to these county things stay at Cross and we will look after you because we are infact better than the county. Now this is great if that is the case but in the long run i think it will pose a few problems for the Cross. My club would be renowned for being arrogant and i will accept that (so i don' want to make this into a clans versus the rest of the county debate) But this has backfired on us. I would just be interested to hear the rest of the opinions on the subject.

I know what you are saying, but if there is an animosity between Cross and the county, then why is it up to Cross to do anything about it.  If the club underage management feel that the best interests of the young players is to keep them at the club, I see no problem with that.  Of course I would like to see Armagh do well, but to me the notion of having development squads for young lads at the age of 15 is wrong.  They have enough matches at most clubs to keep them going and there is the risk that if they are left out of a development squad, they are at an age where they will throw the head up.  I do not see the same problem with Cross that the Clans had to deal with as there is a very strong link between every team and the people coaching the underage teams are flowing down from the senior team.  There is continuity there.

[bennydorano]

I don't know what goes on at the Development squads so I cannot comment on whether they would be good or bad.  What I do know is that there is a regular flow of young players form the underage squads onto the senior squad.  These players are improving the squad every year.  There are now 30 lads who can play senior championship on the squad.  When I was playing you could not say that.  The likes of Titch and Paul McKeown will develop into serious county players in the next 2-3 years and they did no need for development squads.  Surely if they are so good other clubs wouldn't want to see Cross players at them as there are enough of them graduating to seniors at the minute

There's a good chance that this may sound ridculous but I firmly believe a Cross team without the Macs, JD, Bellew & Oisin will be ordinary and very beatable.  The likes of the Kernan brothers are all good players, but they'll certainly not strike fear into hearts the way JD and Bellew have done, and I think that's half the battle when playing Cross.

Of course they will be beatable, that group of players was the best ever seen at Armagh club level, you can't just replace it. But I think people are missing the point, it may not harm Cross' development, but surely it wil lhurt Armagh's.

To be perfectly honest Armagh's wellbeing is (and should be) a distant second to club interests.

[corn02]

Of course I wouldn't argue with that Benny, but I raised the point about the fall-out with the thought that this will hamper Armagh's development. I hate to continually refer to Tyrone, but the results are obvious from their point of view.

On the club side, will it hamper Cross? I would be of the opinion it will. Obviously they have had no problems as of yet and BC rightly points to players coming through, but I'd say the majority of those played Armagh U-16 and minor and Ryan was always involved with Abbey teams. I think it was fullback who said the only benefit players will get is playing against a higher standard of player, that in itself is a good enough reason.

[winsamsoon]

Benny i would agree myself that the club should be well before the county setups.

BC i take on board what you are saying lad and that is why i ask you about it because i wanted to get an insight into how someone from cross would feel about the issue. I also would agree with you when you raise the point about the clans. As a clans member there is no comparison from what i can see.

[aroundincircles]

Would cross have won thirteen in a row in any other county in ulster i dont think so they are a super team but i think once in 70 odd club championship games with in any other county in ulster they would have been caught at least once!!!

[AFS]

Would cross have won thirteen in a row in any other county in ulster i dont think so they are a super team but i think once in 70 odd club championship games with in any other county in ulster they would have been caught at least once!!!

Silly argument but for the sake of it, and also because I have insomnia, I reckon:

In Antrim - Would've won at least 11 or 12 championships with only St. Galls stopping them a couple of times
In Cavan - Would've won all 13
In Derry - Would've been the most difficult but probably still would've dominated and won at least 8 or 9
In Down - Would've won all 13
In Donegal - Would've won all 13
In Fermanagh - Would've won at least 11 or 12 with only the Enniskillen team of 6 or 7 catching them once or twice
In Monaghan - Would've won 11 or 12 with only the Blaney team of 7 or 8 years ago stopping them once or twice
In Tyrone - Would've won at least 10 or 11

Now I'm not from Cross and I couldn't give a shit anymore how they do tbh, but I take a bit of issue with the suggestion that Cross' dominance has been largely down to the poor standard of the rest of the clubs in Armagh. For the majority of the the last 13 years senior club football in Armagh has been of a reasonable strength in my opinion. Although there was never the depth that exists in Derry or maybe Tyrone ( I'd actually question the strength of Tyrone senior club football since their clubs never seem to really do much outside of Tyrone), it was at least on a par with most of the other Ulster counties and probably better than in 3 or 4 of them.

Its worth remembering that every other time Cross have won the the Armagh championship they've gone on to conquer the rest of Ulster (with the possibility of that record extending beyond 50% next weekend), and that they've done this while arguable having a 'break' from the early to mid noughties while Armagh took centre stage.

[The GAA]

Its worth remembering that every other time Cross have won the the Armagh championship they've gone on to conquer the rest of Ulster (with the possibility of that record extending beyond 50% next weekend), and that they've done this while arguable having a 'break' from the early to mid noughties while Armagh took centre stage.

what does this mean?

[armaghniac]

If they win next week,they will have 7 Ulsters from 13, hence > 50%.
It is reasonable to suggest that with many prominent Cross' players playing in AI county finals in 2002, 2003 that this may have affected their performance in the subsequent Ulster club championship, either through burnout or diminished hunger for reaching Croke Pk again.               

[IVEDECIDED]

How can you have diminished hunger for reaching Croke park for an all ireland final with your club? Dont be so stupid! And in my opinion if they were in Tyrone or Derry they would only have about 7 championships to their name as these are firecely contested championships with strong teams however I think they would have dominated all other counties almost as much with only Galls, Enniskillen and Castleblayney taking the odd one off them. People dont realise that the next three odd best teams in Armagh would prob have won multiple championships in most other Ulster counties over the past 13 years.