Official Gooners Thread - A New Hope

[AZOffaly]

What was the name of the trophy that Arsenal won for going the season unbeaten?? I've looked everywhere online and can't find it 

The premiership?

[Billys Boots]

as everyone is probably aware by now im a neutral (forest fan) but i love football, especially the premier league, as most people do, but even though fergie, mourinho, etc etc have their faults, Wenger is an absolute w**ker.

Is that not a paradox?

Wenger suffers from a refusal to be critical of his team in public (All managers do it but somehow this is used as a constant stick to beat him with) but is honest on every other question and has an opinion on everything so the media love him because he's a rent a quote and he's foreign the anti-little englander.

Wenger was very similar to Fergie in that both were consumed by winning and both had philosophies of attractive high tempo football, they have taken different paths in recent years with Fergie it's now just about the winning (driven more by the greedy owners) and now his team is essentially a long ball side with no guile in midfield apart from an aging Scholes and Giggs but it's effective as he has instilled a fantastic work-rate in aveage footballers such as Fletcher, Anderson, Carrick and Park etc and they have this belief because they play for Man United, all great sporting cultures have that belief, something money can't buy.

With Wenger it now seems to be more winning in the right way (is there such a thing?) and his project is a thing of beauty in full flow and when you consider the economics behind it truly amazing but when it goes wrong such as yesterday Wenger and his supporters will roll out the excuses and refuse to accept that perhaps they're other uglier ways to winning and that rather than blame a perhaps flawed philosophy and a mental fragiliity which is perhaps due more to the age profile that anything else (I think last season Arsenal threw away 2 goal leads against Villa, West Ham and Wigan).

It galls me to see Mourhinho mentioned in the same breath as  Wenger and Fergie, those two have created legacies, if they were women they would be marriage material, Mourhino looks good and would be a a bit of fun for a couple of years but with him on your arm you'd lose yoiur friends and family and once you broke up you'd just stumble from bad relationship to bad relationship and eventually hit the bottle and die a lonely man...

Good post Dinny. 

[STREET FIGHTER]

What was the name of the trophy that Arsenal won for going the season unbeaten?? I've looked everywhere online and can't find it 

Is that a serious question?

[DuffleKing]

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder of course and i for one have got to the stage where i can't look at arsenal for a 90 min game. that tippy tappy shite where noone is allowed to tackle does my head in.

[Boycey]

as everyone is probably aware by now im a neutral (forest fan) but i love football, especially the premier league, as most people do, but even though fergie, mourinho, etc etc have their faults, Wenger is an absolute w**ker.

Is that not a paradox?

Wenger suffers from a refusal to be critical of his team in public (All managers do it but somehow this is used as a constant stick to beat him with) but is honest on every other question and has an opinion on everything so the media love him because he's a rent a quote and he's foreign the anti-little englander.

Wenger was very similar to Fergie in that both were consumed by winning and both had philosophies of attractive high tempo football, they have taken different paths in recent years with Fergie it's now just about the winning (driven more by the greedy owners) and now his team is essentially a long ball side with no guile in midfield apart from an aging Scholes and Giggs but it's effective as he has instilled a fantastic work-rate in aveage footballers such as Fletcher, Anderson, Carrick and Park etc and they have this belief because they play for Man United, all great sporting cultures have that belief, something money can't buy.

With Wenger it now seems to be more winning in the right way (is there such a thing?) and his project is a thing of beauty in full flow and when you consider the economics behind it truly amazing but when it goes wrong such as yesterday Wenger and his supporters will roll out the excuses and refuse to accept that perhaps they're other uglier ways to winning and that rather than blame a perhaps flawed philosophy and a mental fragiliity which is perhaps due more to the age profile that anything else (I think last season Arsenal threw away 2 goal leads against Villa, West Ham and Wigan).

It galls me to see Mourhinho mentioned in the same breath as  Wenger and Fergie, those two have created legacies, if they were women they would be marriage material, Mourhino looks good and would be a a bit of fun for a couple of years but with him on your arm you'd lose yoiur friends and family and once you broke up you'd just stumble from bad relationship to bad relationship and eventually hit the bottle and die a lonely man...

Good post Dinny. 

Good post indeed I meant to comment on it yesterday.. The only thing I'd really challenge is the notion that Fergies given up his principles of playing high tempo attractive football, maybe its the other way round maybe Wengers sacrificed his principles of winning for the idea of playing the beautiful game. Fergusons a realist and at the minute sends out his teams to play a certain way because hes hamstung with the players he has at his disposal or can buy. They aren't the prettiest United team of all time but they are damn effective and are far from the long ball team you suggest.  All the players you mention as being average were integral parts of a squad that appeareed in a couple of CL finals only a couple of years ago and wth the addition of 1-2 top drawer players United could be back playing their trademark football.

All teams can lose matches as United proved on Sat but in my honest opinion no Ferguson team would have surrendered the lead Arsenal did on Saturday so Maybe Wenger needs to be more of a realist sometimes too.

You are spot on re Mourinho but as I think its written in the stars that he's gonna be next United manager I'm ready for an affair with him

[Dinny Breen]

Bocey, like many Man U fans you are not seeing the wood for the tress, Man U this season just by-pass midfield (euphenism for long-ball) and it's probably one the reasons Rooney is suffering the quote below is from Football365 this morning talking about the Wolves game, so at least I'm alone in my madness in saying this and he's been kind in saying rarely seen it's how they have played away all season and definitely at home against Arsenal

His absence also brought into sharper focus the the glaring absence of creativity in midfield. Ponderous from the outset and no better after the introduction of Paul Scholes, United didn't even try to disguise their disfigurement and spent the final 70 minutes hitting the ball from cumbersome defence towards indifferent attack with no thought other than hope. It was the ultimate damnation and an ugly, rarely-seen side of United, a club that has built its reputation on an attacking brand of football.

[ross4life]

TBH that quote is a load of BS when most team's are losing a game with 15mins to go they throw the tactics they had out the window

Most use the big centre back as a extra striker & knock up the high ball in a hit & hope

rarely-seen side of United my arse! have been doing it for years

[Boycey]

Bocey, like many Man U fans you are not seeing the wood for the tress, Man U this season just by-pass midfield (euphenism for long-ball) and it's probably one the reasons Rooney is suffering the quote below is from Football365 this morning talking about the Wolves game, so at least I'm alone in my madness in saying this and he's been kind in saying rarely seen it's how they have played away all season and definitely at home against Arsenal

His absence also brought into sharper focus the the glaring absence of creativity in midfield. Ponderous from the outset and no better after the introduction of Paul Scholes, United didn't even try to disguise their disfigurement and spent the final 70 minutes hitting the ball from cumbersome defence towards indifferent attack with no thought other than hope. It was the ultimate damnation and an ugly, rarely-seen side of United, a club that has built its reputation on an attacking brand of football.

Quoting Football365 hardly helps your argument.. I look at it every day and enjoy it thoroughly but don't take anything I read too seriously (a bit like this forum)

[Dinny Breen]

I thnik you're been dismissive of Football365 as it doesn't fit your arguement, I referenced it because it made the same observation less than 24hours after my own post and it was somewhat reaffriming, Man United are very much akin to the Emperors new clothes at the moment, just becuase it's Manchester United does not mean it's nice to watch. Damining statistic of the week, Michael Carrick has neither scored or assisted an EPL goal all season.

[Doogie Browser]

I see Bendtner in the paper justifying his 50k a week wages, this lad really is great craic!

[Dinny Breen]

He's worth 5 times that amount, superb player

[Boycey]

I thnik you're been dismissive of Football365 as it doesn't fit your arguement, I referenced it because it made the same observation less than 24hours after my own post and it was somewhat reaffriming, Man United are very much akin to the Emperors new clothes at the moment, just becuase it's Manchester United does not mean it's nice to watch. Damining statistic of the week, Michael Carrick has neither scored or assisted an EPL goal all season.

I'm dismissing F365 because its the internet equivalent of the tabloid newspapers, every article etc they publish is designed to provoke a reaction. All day long yesterday the headline was something about Torres being a "flop" after one fecking game. On looking at the quote again I would agree with everything your man says but maybe just maybe he was talking about the game on Saturday "It was the ultimate damnation and an ugly, rarely-seen side of United"

Anyway it wasn't the point I was making, suppose you are right and United are a long ball team THIS SEASON, Fergusons a realist and must feel that it the best way to remain competitive in the short term. In 05-06 United played some of the most turgid uninspiring shite I've ever seen but out of that came a team that won 3 leagues and played in 2 CL finals. Wenger on the other hand (commendably or foolishly depending on your point of view) seems to have sacrificed winning for the beautiful game so maybe its him thats changed his principles not Ferguson? The other day I used Fergusons United as an example of a team that wouldn't have surrendered a 4-0 lead I could also have used Wengers Invincibles....

On Carrick, I wouldn't be the forums resident stat expert but as Uniteds holding/destructive midfielder you would hardly expect much more from him..

[Dinny Breen]

On Carrick, I wouldn't be the forums resident stat expert but as Uniteds holding/destructive midfielder you would hardly expect much more from him..

Destructive midfielder - Carrick?? Scholes since August has had two assists, Anderson, 2 and Fletcher 5 - so 9 assists from the Man United midfield. Fabrgeas has the same amount in considerable less games, Man United lack creativity in midfield so to counter this they either hit the ball in wide from the wings or deep from defence, it's effective but not pretty in my opinion.

[ross4life]

On Carrick, I wouldn't be the forums resident stat expert but as Uniteds holding/destructive midfielder you would hardly expect much more from him..

Destructive midfielder - Carrick?? Scholes since August has had two assists, Anderson, 2 and Fletcher 5 - so 9 assists from the Man United midfield. Fabrgeas has the same amount in considerable less games, Man United lack creativity in midfield so to counter this they either hit the ball in wide from the wings or deep from defence, it's effective but not pretty in my opinion.

Using Carrick to suit your argument (a guy that has played the sweeper role all season passing backwards) if you want to compare him with someone try Denilson or Diaby & long ball teams don't use the wings.

As for the wings..without the need of stats anyone that has watched united this season will know the like's of Giggs,Park & Nani have been three of the most creative players this season

But i can't end without a stat...United's lack of creativity in midfield 55 goals v Arsenal loads of creativity in midfield 54 goals.

[Boycey]

On Carrick, I wouldn't be the forums resident stat expert but as Uniteds holding/destructive midfielder you would hardly expect much more from him..

Destructive midfielder - Carrick?? Scholes since August has had two assists, Anderson, 2 and Fletcher 5 - so 9 assists from the Man United midfield. Fabrgeas has the same amount in considerable less games, Man United lack creativity in midfield so to counter this they either hit the ball in wide from the wings or deep from defence, it's effective but not pretty in my opinion.

I give up mate, you are beginning to remind me of my woman. We're not even debating the same point..