Official Gooners Thread - A New Hope

[Walter Cronc]

Arsenal are in a transition period and have been now probably since 2005/2006, whether Wenger is the the right man to lead them out of the transition who knows but better the devil you know and all that. Arsenal are competing for 4th spot and have been the last 6 years, it always amuses me that so many Arsenal fans seem to have this ludicrous notion of entitlement and that they should be challenging for league honours. If they know their history of Arsenal they should be aware that this trophy drought is nothing new. Arsenal have a mortgage to pay and only when that mortgage is paid will they have a chance to compete and only then if FFP delivers a somewhat even playing field. And if FFP doesn't deliver Arsenal under the current model of ownership will not compete with the money making machine Man United or the 2 billionaire play things and will probably be surpassed by QPR or some other play thing in the near future.

I take on board everything you are saying Dinny but that still doesn't explain the lack of fight and passion in the Arsenal teams of the last 7+ years. Constantly getting rolled over and bullied out of it against United/Chelsea and the likes. I am convinced that Wenger has instilled a French mentality into the whole club and it is killing us from the inside out. Constant silly errors by defenders and goalkeepers for years now. Explain to me how a team like Borrusia Dortmund can be assembled for a snippet of the price of the current Arsenal squad and yet fight and die for their club and manager. Gazidis, Hill-Wood and Kroenke are bleeding the club dry and making a nice bonus' in the process. The fans do have a right to expect better when they pay the most expensive tickets in the league!!

[Dinny Breen]

Fight and passion are interesting qualities and I have seen plenty of teams that display these qualities being regularly relegated.  Chelsea and Man United over the last 7 years are simply better squads than Arsenal they will beat Arsenal more than not Arsenal in turn beat the other 18 teams in the Premiership more than not because they have a better squad, or is it when those teams lose to Arsenal it's because of lack of fight and passion.

Arsenal tend to dominate possession therefore their defenders and goalies need high levels of concentration and they spend large portions of games not defending so when they do suffer lapses it tends to be catastrophic but the quality isn't as good because they have been bought on the cheap within budget or brought through the academy and that bring inexperience.

I am convinced that Wenger has instilled a French mentality into the whole club and it is killing us from the inside out.

Seriously where does one even start with that!

Explain to me how a team like Borrusia Dortmund can be assembled for a snippet of the price of the current Arsenal squad and yet fight and die for their club and manager.

Dortmund were facing financial ruin they had debts of over a 100m and had to sell their ground, their model which they copied from Arsenal ironically enough (buy young talent at cheap prices and sell later on for a hefty profit) was forced onto them, but with young players you get loyalty and hunger. Wenger was close to succeeding with his project but the oil money at Chelsea and City were game changers, Dortmund don't have to compete with oil money. Dortmund are in affect a German Arsenal with less competition.

Gazidis, Hill-Wood and Kroenke are bleeding the club dry and making a nice bonus' in the process. The fans do have a right to expect better when they pay the most expensive tickets in the league!!

Was their a dividend paid this year? Gazidis is on less than 90% of the 1st team squad, Hill-Wood's family have been on the Arsenal board for generations, I doubt he is in it for the money. As for Kroenke he is an investor and wants a return on his investment, funny enough that is how business works, he is not like the Glaciers and unless you have hard evidence I doubt he is bleeding the club dry.

The fans do have a right to expect better when they pay the most expensive tickets in the league!!

So you should only buy a season ticket if you are guaranteed success? Arsenal is a London club, supply and demand, socioeconomic conditions, quality of stadium are also a factor in the price of a season ticket.

I understand your frustration but I personally can't see anything changing in short-term with or without Wenger, you'll get a good cup run, UCL football and more wins than losses. As fans we suck it up, bide our patience and always look to next year.

[Walter Cronc]

So you should only buy a season ticket if you are guaranteed success? Arsenal is a London club, supply and demand, socioeconomic conditions, quality of stadium are also a factor in the price of a season ticket.

Of course you shouldn't buy a ticket on the basis of success but I feel it is totally unfair that they continue to rise season on season. This new scheme basing prices on the 'quality' of opposition is a farce. Of course the stadium has to be paid for but not at the expense of the ordinary working fan. Arsenal could very easily find themselves in the position of Liverpool very shortly if they were to lose out on CL spot this year. The whole thing is just extremely frustrating!!

[ONeill]

Dinny, it has nothing to do with a sense of entitlement or knowing history. It's what you see in front of you. It's players on massive sums of money not prepared to bleed for the club. The Hilliers and Selleys weren't top class players but they ran all day; you got the feeling they cared. When you see Santos asking for an opposing player's jersey before even reaching the tunnel at half time it's infuriating. When you see Cazorla laughing on the field at the end of a game having been a part of Arsenal's worst home European performance in over a decade then you start to ask questions.

There's a poisonous malaise evident that's obvious to anyone who watches Arsenal which has seeped into the club since the Invincibles broke up. The drop in talent is one thing and you can accept that. But the attitude of many of the players Wenger has brought in over the last five years is not the Arsenal I've supported since the 80s. Gallas, Nasri, Adebayor, Djourou, Bendtner, Hleb, Santos, Chamakh - you could double that list - didn't or don't really care about Arsenal. That's how I see it. That's why the away fans, the real supporters, were singing 'We Want Our Arsenal Back' yesterday and against Norwich and Reading. I'd rather have a team of Jenkinsons who'll burst a lung for 90 mins over prima donna £70'000 a weekers who spent more time gelling their hair before pansying around the field passing 2 yards and complaining to the ref if tackled.

Then you have Walcott who seems to spend most of his time issuing statements through his agent about where he should be playing. FFS. Theo f**king Walcott.

Wenger has allowed this. He's the man to do something about it but when?

[Main Street]

I'd rather have a team of Jenkinsons who'll burst a lung for 90 mins over prima donna £70'000 a weekers who spent more time gelling their hair before pansying around the field passing 2 yards and complaining to the ref if tackled.

That sounds okay but would you accept the results and achievements of the lung bursters?

It's easy to see on this chart what Arsenal were about before Wenger -  a club with a great tradition who were occasional competitors.

[CorkMan]

Then you have Walcott who seems to spend most of his time issuing statements through his agent about where he should be playing. FFS. Theo f**king Walcott.

I could be completely wrong here, but I always got the feeling Walcott does care about the club. He's frustrated about being played wide right, which is understandable if he's so sure he's a centre-forward. He's going about changing Wengers mind the wrong way, but I do think he cares.

[ballinaman]

Things are definitely not right at Arsenal....

[AZOffaly]

Looking good tonight lads.

[ONeill]

Taking Europe by storm.

[ONeill]

...for a half.

[Main Street]

Not a bad result against a form team in Germany
The Bundesliga has certainly crept ahead of the EPL.

[Dinny Breen]

Draw was a good result, either side could have won it but I have to say the referee blowing up when Podolski was through was very bizarre and then booking him as well.

[ONeill]

Would like to see Cazorla rested but unlikely. Need 3 points. Others will drop this weekend.

[gerry]

maybe we might hold on to this lead

[Captain Obvious]

Good game this 3-3 at the moment.