Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Angelo]

Two of the four Norwegians with blood clotting linked to the AZ vaccine have now died.

[Milltown Row2]

Out of the 17 million vaccine jabs given throughout Europe it said on the news 50 were hospitalised from the vaccine.

So what you are saying is that lives in danger from the Vaccine are less important than lives in danger from Covid-19?

That much is clear. Almost 900,000 deaths in Europe vs 50 accine hospitalizations.

This is the type of complete disingenuous narrative that guys like you engage in.

There's been deaths from the vaccines, it is right they are stopped and investigated and people have a right to be concerned regarding this.

If you're are in an at risk category the benefits exceed the risk. If you are not then you have reason to skeptical and your choice be respected.

You can't decide on what you want, live with the virus let more people die don't take the vaccine, let more people die. What's acceptable to you? What's the percentage of that 50 out of 17 million, you're good with figures, you did one before.

I think one person dying from a vaccine is too many. For the at risk categories the benefits outweigh the risks.

For u40s and fit and healthy people I think people should think long and hard about it and be allowed make their own decision. We know the data on Covid and fit and healthy people under 40, the chance of serious illness or death from it are minimal. The chance of you getting Covid too are reduced by social distancing etc.

People who get Covid die from it we are told.

People who take the vaccine just die from blood clotting and we are told to ignore any possible relation to them getting the vaccine shortly before.

It's a strange double standard.

Again you are all over the place, you throw up odds of catching the virus and then under 40's getting it is minimal, pure waffle btw, then say with the percentage of 4 people dying from taking the vaccine out of 17 million isn't worth the risk?

Go back to bed and rest. As for the double standard I have no idea what you are on about, no lives are acceptable and I've always said that, you on the other hand were going on about acceptable deaths and we have to live with covid and accept that deaths are going to happen! Weirdo

Your stupidity knows no bounds.

There's not 17 million people in Norway, there is 5 million.
There's not 17 million AZ vaccines administered in the world.

In the past week, there has been a significant number of cases of blood clotting reported shortly after people received their AZ vaccine. Two of these people have now died, in the the past week and we have people like you trying to coerce or shame people into getting a novel vaccine that has currently being halted and suspended by the EMA to investigate the linkages.

The actions and words from EMA are very different on this, they were quick to outright dismiss this when the Austrian incidents happened last week, this week with further cases emerging and further deaths they have suspended it while reassuring us everything is ok. It's clear everything is not ok as they would not have suspended it otherwise.

My stupidity? When did I bring Norway into this? Go and have a lie down, been a tough couple of days for you, the fingers must be bleeding at this point

[Rossfan]

I see EvilG has met Angeloworld

[Angelo]

Out of the 17 million vaccine jabs given throughout Europe it said on the news 50 were hospitalised from the vaccine.

So what you are saying is that lives in danger from the Vaccine are less important than lives in danger from Covid-19?

That much is clear. Almost 900,000 deaths in Europe vs 50 accine hospitalizations.

This is the type of complete disingenuous narrative that guys like you engage in.

There's been deaths from the vaccines, it is right they are stopped and investigated and people have a right to be concerned regarding this.

If you're are in an at risk category the benefits exceed the risk. If you are not then you have reason to skeptical and your choice be respected.

You can't decide on what you want, live with the virus let more people die don't take the vaccine, let more people die. What's acceptable to you? What's the percentage of that 50 out of 17 million, you're good with figures, you did one before.

I think one person dying from a vaccine is too many. For the at risk categories the benefits outweigh the risks.

For u40s and fit and healthy people I think people should think long and hard about it and be allowed make their own decision. We know the data on Covid and fit and healthy people under 40, the chance of serious illness or death from it are minimal. The chance of you getting Covid too are reduced by social distancing etc.

People who get Covid die from it we are told.

People who take the vaccine just die from blood clotting and we are told to ignore any possible relation to them getting the vaccine shortly before.

It's a strange double standard.

Again you are all over the place, you throw up odds of catching the virus and then under 40's getting it is minimal, pure waffle btw, then say with the percentage of 4 people dying from taking the vaccine out of 17 million isn't worth the risk?

Go back to bed and rest. As for the double standard I have no idea what you are on about, no lives are acceptable and I've always said that, you on the other hand were going on about acceptable deaths and we have to live with covid and accept that deaths are going to happen! Weirdo

Your stupidity knows no bounds.

There's not 17 million people in Norway, there is 5 million.
There's not 17 million AZ vaccines administered in the world.

In the past week, there has been a significant number of cases of blood clotting reported shortly after people received their AZ vaccine. Two of these people have now died, in the the past week and we have people like you trying to coerce or shame people into getting a novel vaccine that has currently being halted and suspended by the EMA to investigate the linkages.

The actions and words from EMA are very different on this, they were quick to outright dismiss this when the Austrian incidents happened last week, this week with further cases emerging and further deaths they have suspended it while reassuring us everything is ok. It's clear everything is not ok as they would not have suspended it otherwise.

My stupidity? When did I bring Norway into this? Go and have a lie down, been a tough couple of days for you, the fingers must be bleeding at this point

There are four cases in Norway.

[Angelo]

I see EvilG has met Angeloworld

I was banned under some feuding rule.

Can the mods do something about this lad when he all seems to be able to offer is stalk a reference a poster ad nauseum that he claims to have on ignore?

Ironically enough no poster has yet come forward to admit that they value Rossfan's contribution to the board. I'm hardly surprised.

[Evil Genius]

Without doubt scientists have vested interests. If you are denying that then you might as well keep your head in the sand.

Of course scientists have "vested interests" - primarily in producing better science.

But you're implying ulterior interests (motives, actually), without ever specifying exactly which scientists, exactly which motives and exactly how they benefit from them to the detriment of the rest of us.

But I guess that's kinda hard, meaning it's so much easier to fling out vague, unsubstantiated generalisations of the "Scientists have vested interests" type.

I know they have no liability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

It seems you are being very economical with the truth, why is that?

What do you mean by "they"?

You have merely demonstrated that two vaccine producers of many, have limited liability in one country (USA).

Whilst ignoring that redress may be available in another US forum.

And conveniently overlooking that with any process which involves an element of risk, companies may well decline entirely to invent new products which could leave them liable to potentially open-ended claims.

But maybe you'd prefer it if we were facing this pandemic without any vaccines at all?

Or at least only vaccines which were produced in completely unaccountable dictatorships like Russia or China?

[Angelo]

Without doubt scientists have vested interests. If you are denying that then you might as well keep your head in the sand.

Of course scientists have "vested interests" - primarily in producing better science.

But you're implying ulterior interests (motives, actually), without ever specifying exactly which scientists, exactly which motives and exactly how they benefit from them to the detriment of the rest of us.

But I guess that's kinda hard, meaning it's so much easier to fling out vague, unsubstantiated generalisations of the "Scientists have vested interests" type.

I know they have no liability.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/16/covid-vaccine-side-effects-compensation-lawsuit.html

It seems you are being very economical with the truth, why is that?

What do you mean by "they"?

You have merely demonstrated that two vaccine producers of many, have limited liability in one country (USA).

Whilst ignoring that redress may be available in another US forum.

And conveniently overlooking that with any process which involves an element of risk, companies may well decline entirely to invent new products which could leave them liable to potentially open-ended claims.

But maybe you'd prefer it if we were facing this pandemic without any vaccines at all?

Or at least only vaccines which were produced in completely unaccountable dictatorships like Russia or China?

By they I mean the big pharmaceutical companies. I thought I made it pretty clear:

What do you think about Big Pharma having no liability if any deaths are connected to the vaccine?

[Evil Genius]

By they I mean the big pharmaceutical companies. I thought I made it pretty clear:

What do you think about Big Pharma having no liability if any deaths are connected to the vaccine?

You made an unqualified, catch-all claim, implying that every manufacturer in every jurisdiction is immune from liability in every circumstance.

Yet you were only able to point to two manufacturers in one jurisdiction and then only for "unintentional" harm.

Whilst all the while ignoring the good reasons, some of which I listed, why such manufacturers might enjoy a degree of protection.

Or are you one of those people who believes that just about everything they don't like, agree with or understand must be some sort of conspiracy? 

[Angelo]

By they I mean the big pharmaceutical companies. I thought I made it pretty clear:

What do you think about Big Pharma having no liability if any deaths are connected to the vaccine?

You made an unqualified, catch-all claim, implying that every manufacturer in every jurisdiction is immune from liability in every circumstance.

Yet you were only able to point to two manufacturers in one jurisdiction and then only for "unintentional" harm.

Whilst all the while ignoring the good reasons, some of which I listed, why such manufacturers might enjoy a degree of protection.

Or are you one of those people who believes that just about everything they don't like, agree with or understand must be some sort of conspiracy?

Where have they liability?

Go on, tell me.

[Milltown Row2]

Angelo quote:

The benefits outweigh the risk seems to be a rather cold and callous take on a vaccine that has been associated with a number of blood clotting related deaths in Europe in the past week.

The majority of European countries have now suspended the vaccine.

It's grand that the EMA were casually dismissing Austria suspending the vaccine for a blood clotting related death and serious illness and then we see a number of cases in Norway in the following week.

This is serious.
[/quote]

How many countries in Europe?

Ireland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway and Iceland have suspended the use of the vaccine, while Austria stopped using a batch

I'm counting 6 here, I believe there are 44 countries. so I'm guessing, just a rough guess mind you, that the majority would need to 23?

[Angelo]

Angelo quote:

The benefits outweigh the risk seems to be a rather cold and callous take on a vaccine that has been associated with a number of blood clotting related deaths in Europe in the past week.

The majority of European countries have now suspended the vaccine.

It's grand that the EMA were casually dismissing Austria suspending the vaccine for a blood clotting related death and serious illness and then we see a number of cases in Norway in the following week.

This is serious.

How many countries in Europe?

Ireland, the Netherlands, Denmark, Norway and Iceland have suspended the use of the vaccine, while Austria stopped using a batch

I'm counting 6 here, I believe there are 44 countries. so I'm guessing, just a rough guess mind you, that the majority would need to 23?
[/quote]

Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Austria, Denmark, Norway, Ireland, Netherlands, Lithuania, Estonia, Bulgaria, Sweden, Latvia among others.

[Milltown Row2]

I'm only noticing Spain on that list from What I put up, have you a link for the 23 countries that have suspended it

[Angelo]

I'm only noticing Spain on that list from What I put up, have you a link for the 23 countries that have suspended it

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/15/which-countries-have-halted-use-of-astrazenecas-covid-vaccine

[Evil Genius]

Where have they liability?

Go on, tell me.

It was you who introduced the "no liability" claim to the debate, not anyone else

So it must be for you to back it up, not the rest of us to disprove it.

So far you've pointed to two companies in one jurisdiction, and then only for unintentional harm.

So I'll leave you to get on with the rest of it.

After that you can take a rest before addressing the good reasons why manufacturers should require immunity from prosecution and governments might grant it (see my post at 2.56pm today).

[Milltown Row2]

I'm only noticing Spain on that list from What I put up, have you a link for the 23 countries that have suspended it

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/3/15/which-countries-have-halted-use-of-astrazenecas-covid-vaccine

Think that's still short