Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[imtommygunn]

1500 new cases and increase of 42 in the inpatients. Occupancy down from 102% to 99% so at least that's something. 20 deaths

[Taylor]

Serious question Angelo - if everyone ignores lockdown and behaves like we did in the Summer with 'restrictive measures' do you think things will get better with society in general?

[Angelo]

Ahh so the genius recommends the "fizzle out" strategy.
I wonder was that what our Government tried in December where cases went from 400 a day up to 5 or 6,000.
Would that be Covid fizzling out?

That would be yet another failed lockdown strategy which just like the first one, did not work.

You're really vocal about Covid but do you care about unemployment, mental health and suicides, domestic violence and other forms of abuse, care services and supports to people with mental and physical disabilities, the education and social development of children etc? You quite clearly seem to be giving those groupings the two fingers because lockdowns will have a very long lasting and serious impact on all those vulernable groupings. But you have no problem throwing your two fingers up at their needs.

Lockdowns worked.

Reasonable restrictions - not so much.

Absolute horseshit.

They have failed, unequivocally.

Reasonable restrictions? Yes absolutely. They have been a complete shambles.

Reasonable restrictions allow for people to go and out and work, for businesses to stay open, for vulnerable groupings to avail of support services, look after their physical and mental health, for domestic abuse victims to have some manner of escape and support from their abuser.

Tell those groupings we need another lockdown.

Reasonable restrictions failed 3 times. Plaese don't tell me you would want to return to that, where people can't be treated in hospital due to stress on the NHS, Where cancer people are dying because of hospitals being overrun, where support services can't operate as  staff are isolating. And on top of that where the death rate is 80K+ above the average.

No one would argue for that surely.

They haven't failed the groupings I've outlined who you have once again dismissed as an irrelevance or an inconvenience.

Cancer patients are dying as a result of lockdowns. Why are Covid patients the priority? Why don't we have a specialist cancer hospital during this where Covid cases are not admitted?

I didn't, We discussed then at length yesterday, you should know you were involved. I just don't intend to do that dance again.

And you've reverted to type again. Covid, covid, covid - forget everything else. Decisions should be made with a big picture outlook. Lockdowns cause a lot more damage than good and I think that's going to show over time.

Covid covid covid yes. Because it over runs everything if not controlled and that then affects everything. We are seeing first hand now what reasonable restrictions have done. A complete mess.

It overruns everything.

But no to mental health
No to domestic abuse victims
No to children and their education and social development
No to the economy and unemployment and the stigma and decades of damage and hardship it will bring.

Don't even countenance the above for God sake, these groupings are an irrelevance, an inconvenience

We discussed these yesterday. Actions should be taken to address the impact of lockdown on these. But the answer is not to remove lockdown. Removing lockdowns just exasperates the complete failure we have to deal with Covid in a  "normal" environment.

That's a very vague term and not a practical solution.

What practical solutions have you?

[Angelo]

Serious question Angelo - if everyone ignores lockdown and behaves like we did in the Summer with 'restrictive measures' do you think things will get better with society in general?

I think they will improve from the current situation for these groupings, yes. How many people have been put out of work as a result of the latest lockdowns?

[Milltown Row2]

They are cancelling operations as there are no flipping ICU beds available ffs!

Mother in-law needs open heart surgery and is stuck in hospital and there are no operations available for a critical much needed life threatening op!

The reason she can't have the surgery is because we have fuckwits out there not giving a dam and going about as if there is no virus!

How dumb can one be?

I'm sorry to hear that.

This is due to a chronically underfunded, under resourced health service.

Maybe the reason people are going out there not giving a damn is because lockdowns have failed. How many more lockdowns do you think are needed?

Not a sinner has said the NHS is funded properly, is be losing money since it started and is so underfunded for the population has increased by 12 million or more since introduction.. We need to pay more money into it to pay for it

We peaked in April last year when everyone knew what covid was .. So we lockdown and after 3 months of everyone off bar the essential we got it down to zero at times.. So we did that to create reduced cases for hospital. then when the numbers rose again, it was applied, this time though for some reason everyone complained, and said f**k it....

Saying f**k it and we should have this beaten isnt the reality and they were told wave 2 will come and wave 3 and so on, its not like people didn't  understand, if and a big if, if people had have continued to do the things we did through March to end of June, we'd be doing fine.. They didnt and as a result the rest of all these services that we need (not covid) related suffered, as people were laid off due to covid, people got sick, face to face became dangerous new variants..

And the reality of those vulnerable groupings impacted by lockdowns?

"We don't care about you"

If you can post a quote were anyone on this board has said that vulnerable people outside of covid don't matter?

To use a phrase,  All lives matter.

But you can't do operations when the hospitals are full unless, a doctor decides right, he's 86 has covid, f**k him and lets look after the other person who's 65.. So do all lives matter or just the vulnerable groups you have stated

[Milltown Row2]

Serious question Angelo - if everyone ignores lockdown and behaves like we did in the Summer with 'restrictive measures' do you think things will get better with society in general?

I think they will improve from the current situation for these groupings, yes. How many people have been put out of work as a result of the latest lockdowns?

Will the cases go down and the hospital admissions?

I was wondering, do you think the hospital admissions are fake? or real?

[trueblue1234]

Ahh so the genius recommends the "fizzle out" strategy.
I wonder was that what our Government tried in December where cases went from 400 a day up to 5 or 6,000.
Would that be Covid fizzling out?

That would be yet another failed lockdown strategy which just like the first one, did not work.

You're really vocal about Covid but do you care about unemployment, mental health and suicides, domestic violence and other forms of abuse, care services and supports to people with mental and physical disabilities, the education and social development of children etc? You quite clearly seem to be giving those groupings the two fingers because lockdowns will have a very long lasting and serious impact on all those vulernable groupings. But you have no problem throwing your two fingers up at their needs.

Lockdowns worked.

Reasonable restrictions - not so much.

Absolute horseshit.

They have failed, unequivocally.

Reasonable restrictions? Yes absolutely. They have been a complete shambles.

Reasonable restrictions allow for people to go and out and work, for businesses to stay open, for vulnerable groupings to avail of support services, look after their physical and mental health, for domestic abuse victims to have some manner of escape and support from their abuser.

Tell those groupings we need another lockdown.

Reasonable restrictions failed 3 times. Plaese don't tell me you would want to return to that, where people can't be treated in hospital due to stress on the NHS, Where cancer people are dying because of hospitals being overrun, where support services can't operate as  staff are isolating. And on top of that where the death rate is 80K+ above the average.

No one would argue for that surely.

They haven't failed the groupings I've outlined who you have once again dismissed as an irrelevance or an inconvenience.

Cancer patients are dying as a result of lockdowns. Why are Covid patients the priority? Why don't we have a specialist cancer hospital during this where Covid cases are not admitted?

I didn't, We discussed then at length yesterday, you should know you were involved. I just don't intend to do that dance again.

And you've reverted to type again. Covid, covid, covid - forget everything else. Decisions should be made with a big picture outlook. Lockdowns cause a lot more damage than good and I think that's going to show over time.

Covid covid covid yes. Because it over runs everything if not controlled and that then affects everything. We are seeing first hand now what reasonable restrictions have done. A complete mess.

It overruns everything.

But no to mental health
No to domestic abuse victims
No to children and their education and social development
No to the economy and unemployment and the stigma and decades of damage and hardship it will bring.

Don't even countenance the above for God sake, these groupings are an irrelevance, an inconvenience

We discussed these yesterday. Actions should be taken to address the impact of lockdown on these. But the answer is not to remove lockdown. Removing lockdowns just exasperates the complete failure we have to deal with Covid in a  "normal" environment.

That's a very vague term and not a practical solution.

What practical solutions have you?

Increased advertising and outreach to abuse victims, Increased funding to abuse charities, highlight the warning signs with the general public. Increased help to abuse victims who wish to move out of a abusive relationship - accommodation, counselling etc.

Teaching - Improved distance learning. Teachers will improve the content of E-learning as they get more used to it.

Unemployment - Furlough scheme, funding for struggling businesses.

Support for those with Mental and physical disabilities - This is a tough one. Increased funding to the support services would help, but the reality is that a covid rampant environment as you champion is even worse for this category as services would be even further diminished by rampant covid. And people with physical disabilities would be required to shield even more.  So there is no way this category benefits from reasonable restrictions environment. 

So now that I have answered you, explain how the same groups would be improved by an environment were covid is rampant?

[Rossfan]

Sure them oul restrictions dont work

https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/01/08/green-shoots-that-level-5-restrictions-are-beginning-to-take-effect/

[tbrick18]

I think it's generally accepted by everyone other than Angelo that lockdowns were successful in what they were doing. Reducing the numbers. Unfortunately it's quite clear to everyone that Angelo preferred actions after lockdown were complete failures which unfortunately lead back to lockdowns.

Unfortunately it looks like we should have locked down harder and earlier this time round as things are turning into a clusterfuck and I fully expect some grime reading over the next 7-10 days.

Yes I agree with this.
No one wants lockdown and everyone gets the wide range of problems they introduce.
But, to use one of Angelo's terms, the definition of madness would be to just plod on regardless. The NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be.
It seems Angelo can only see a single view point and is eithe unwilling or unable to see that covid at this point in time is the single biggest strain on the NHS in terms of hospital admissions.
To reduce this strain and in doing so enable the NHS to treat other conditions a lockdown is the only way for a quick improvement.
The vaccine should reduce the infection date moving forward, but it's just too far away at the minute to have an immediate effect.
It's a harsh reality that some people will fail to get treatment has a result of current NHS pressures, but a judgement call has to be made which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.

What utter horseshit, what a complete contradiction.

I have a broad view that we should not solely be looking at the consequences in terms of Covid. We shjould be looking at it an overall consequence and the overall impact on society as a whole.

You on the other hand have one singular view, Covid. You dismiss out of hand, cannot countenance any reality of the cure (lockdowns) being a bigger danger than the problem (Covid). You just will not even dare countenance that potential reality.

And then you have the utter nerve to come out that wholly illogical, nonsensical statement.

You have a broad view....which ignores the impact of Covid on the NHS and society as a whole!
Ironically, if we don't lockdown and covid runs free through the population the vulnerable groups that you refer to will only suffer more as the NHS will be on its knees.
I think it's quite amusing that you talk about wholly illogical, nonsensical statements 
And to be quite honest, I don't need utter nerve to call out nonsense.

You are very good at telling everyone what doesn't work and what the problems are but you have no alternative of your own which would be any better. In fact, anything you have suggested would only make things worse.
I don't doubt your concern for those vulnerable categories of people or indeed the economy, but I do think you have a twisted view on the current state of things.

[GetOverTheBar]

Sure them oul restrictions dont work

https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/01/08/green-shoots-that-level-5-restrictions-are-beginning-to-take-effect/

Yes.

But just how long after you get out of Level 5....will you be back in it.

That seems to be the problem.

[Milltown Row2]

Sure them oul restrictions dont work

https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/01/08/green-shoots-that-level-5-restrictions-are-beginning-to-take-effect/

Yes.

But just how long after you get out of Level 5....will you be back in it.

That seems to be the problem.

Until the numbers go down?

You're a decent poster, intelligent and don't get drawn into too many crazy discussions.

I'm not for lockdowns, in so many levels. I think its nuts and I'm the point of wondering where do we go...

But can you (I'm not debating with Angelo on this anymore) show me a path out of lockdowns that will keep the cases below what we have (the highest since it began) reducing hospital admissions and dropping the ICU numbers, because on a personal level my wife's mother needs one right now. for when (whenever that will be) after her open heart surgery.

In my view I seen everyone (40% if you go by the poll above  ) think life is ok and went ahead with their daily lives while not doing the things they did during the, what I call it, the proper full lockdown. Is there a solution?

Letting people die whatever age they are, or time they are meant to have left in their life isn't acceptable for me, I'd love nothing more to have my dad for another 6 months..

Blaming governments and poor NHS isn't going to solve it in the short term. What can we do short term to fix it?

[Taylor]

Serious question Angelo - if everyone ignores lockdown and behaves like we did in the Summer with 'restrictive measures' do you think things will get better with society in general?

I think they will improve from the current situation for these groupings, yes. How many people have been put out of work as a result of the latest lockdowns?

Ok.
Im not being specific to certain grouping.

What I mean is society in general - that includes if we come out of lockdown and hospital admissions rocket (which they will) that would mean not only would people people with Covid be left outside but every op cancelled etc etc.

And if the deaths start to pile up how would that impact families who lose loved ones? Alcohol/drug abuse to cope with grief?
The public outrage because we didnt try to protect the vulnerable at all

Not a loaded question - just trying to understand how you think coming out of lockdown would help

[GetOverTheBar]

Sure them oul restrictions dont work

https://roscommonherald.ie/2021/01/08/green-shoots-that-level-5-restrictions-are-beginning-to-take-effect/

Yes.

But just how long after you get out of Level 5....will you be back in it.

That seems to be the problem.

Until the numbers go down?

You're a decent poster, intelligent and don't get drawn into too many crazy discussions.

I'm not for lockdowns, in so many levels. I think its nuts and I'm the point of wondering where do we go...

But can you (I'm not debating with Angelo on this anymore) show me a path out of lockdowns that will keep the cases below what we have (the highest since it began) reducing hospital admissions and dropping the ICU numbers, because on a personal level my wife's mother needs one right now. for when (whenever that will be) after her open heart surgery.

In my view I seen everyone (40% if you go by the poll above  ) think life is ok and went ahead with their daily lives while not doing the things they did during the, what I call it, the proper full lockdown. Is there a solution?

Letting people die whatever age they are, or time they are meant to have left in their life isn't acceptable for me, I'd love nothing more to have my dad for another 6 months..

Blaming governments and poor NHS isn't going to solve it in the short term. What can we do short term to fix it?

That man has had you lads round his fingers for months 

Ah look we can't go straight out of lockdown. I despise them myself but I'm not saying, lets get the show on the road next week either but there must be a path out of it. The NI Executive for example at the moment only gives the worst case scenario - it's an actual policy, insane and sinister. It turns me off the cause. Robin Swann is to blame there, he said 15k would die in March? People aren't stupid....not even a 10th of that coming up to a year later, why do you think people don't comply? I'm not saying I agree with that, but that's what public attitude is.

But....we do need to make the most of the vaccine from here on. I was all for a Chinese stay at home or execution style military boot camp (hyperbole, but you get the point). Once off, that's it. Never again. If there was no vaccine...but it's here, I think now 3 of them so there are brighter days ahead despite my current anger at the situation. But I do want numbers, I want to know when lockdown never, ever exists again. At what % of population vaccinated are we free? I think that is fair.

But what we are doing now is madness (lockdown and repeat). I'm not sure if it was this thread or one of the others I said it months ago.....we are basically putting our thumb on the leak only for one to be where we can't reach the other side and repeat.

I do blame the Govt in some areas tbh, I actually declared Covid finished in the summer. It was. Little to no death, cases were fairly low aswell, we were so close. We had track and trace......and look what happened there. A massive, massive failure....so much so Stormont haven't talked about it in months, they are sneaky up there too. I don't think the South done any better in that regard either. Track and trace was essential to help fight the cause and it did collapse, actually, it might not have even had the foundations to begin with. I also get very annoyed when the Govt blame us, yet nobody there has made a mistake.....

Clearly we can't let people die. People get frustrated with this all, that's ok too. I've lost 2 (far out) relatives to Covid, North and South. They didn't have it. I know they didn't have it and I've seen the certs that say it. But someone is allowed to, wily nilly throw down Covid and that can never be questioned. That is wrong. Certainly more accountability is needed, if not accuracy. And I am not the only one to experience that for sure.

What is the answer? Christ knows....We have 1/2/3 vaccines depending on what part of the Island you are on now. It looks like we are going to do at least 6 more weeks of this and hope for the best. That's what the policy looks like. I mean to be fair they are pumping the vaccine out rightly in the North for how critical I am of the other....they are doing this right anyway so maybe this will be the last one? I don't really trust that....but it could be.

I understand they are doing it for the hospitals, but the Govt must also, always understand, we pay for those hospitals every week/fortnight or month. We never miss a payment. It's not our fault they were overran. Don't blame us for you being caught doing it on the cheap....and that isn't just the British, it's the Irish, it's the Italian etc.

Longest post ever.....away to enjoy the weekend lads. That's enough Covid!

[Angelo]

https://norwaytoday.info/news/norwegian-medicines-agency-links-13-deaths-to-vaccine-side-effects-those-who-died-were-frail-and-old/amp/

The Norwegian Medicines Agency linked 13 deaths to the corona vaccine's side effects. Those who died had two things in common – they were old and frail.

A total of 23 deaths have been reported in connection with the corona vaccination.

So far, 13 of these have been assessed.

"The reports might indicate that common side effects from mRNA vaccines, such as fever and nausea, may have led to deaths in some frail patients," chief physician Sigurd Hortemo in the Norwegian Medicines Agency noted.

Side effects
The Norwegian Medicines Agency and the National Institute of Public Health (FHI) jointly assess all side effects reports.

As a result, the FHI has updated the corona vaccination guide with new advice on the vaccination of frail elderly people.

"If you are very frail, you should probably not be vaccinated," Steinar Madsen at the Norwegian Medicines Agency said at a webinar on corona vaccine for journalists on Thursday.

Source: © NTB Scanpix / #Norway Today / #NorwayTodayNews

Do you have a news tip for Norway Today? We want to hear it. Get in touch at info@norwaytoday.no

[Angelo]

https://norwaytoday.info/news/norwegian-medicines-agency-links-13-deaths-to-vaccine-side-effects-those-who-died-were-frail-and-old/amp/

The Norwegian Medicines Agency linked 13 deaths to the corona vaccine's side effects. Those who died had two things in common – they were old and frail.

A total of 23 deaths have been reported in connection with the corona vaccination.

So far, 13 of these have been assessed.

"The reports might indicate that common side effects from mRNA vaccines, such as fever and nausea, may have led to deaths in some frail patients," chief physician Sigurd Hortemo in the Norwegian Medicines Agency noted.

Side effects
The Norwegian Medicines Agency and the National Institute of Public Health (FHI) jointly assess all side effects reports.

As a result, the FHI has updated the corona vaccination guide with new advice on the vaccination of frail elderly people.

"If you are very frail, you should probably not be vaccinated," Steinar Madsen at the Norwegian Medicines Agency said at a webinar on corona vaccine for journalists on Thursday.

Source: © NTB Scanpix / #Norway Today / #NorwayTodayNews

Do you have a news tip for Norway Today? We want to hear it. Get in touch at info@norwaytoday.no

No comment from Milltown?