Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[tbrick18]

I think it's generally accepted by everyone other than Angelo that lockdowns were successful in what they were doing. Reducing the numbers. Unfortunately it's quite clear to everyone that Angelo preferred actions after lockdown were complete failures which unfortunately lead back to lockdowns.

Unfortunately it looks like we should have locked down harder and earlier this time round as things are turning into a clusterfuck and I fully expect some grime reading over the next 7-10 days.

Yes I agree with this.
No one wants lockdown and everyone gets the wide range of problems they introduce.
But, to use one of Angelo's terms, the definition of madness would be to just plod on regardless. The NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be.
It seems Angelo can only see a single view point and is eithe unwilling or unable to see that covid at this point in time is the single biggest strain on the NHS in terms of hospital admissions.
To reduce this strain and in doing so enable the NHS to treat other conditions a lockdown is the only way for a quick improvement.
The vaccine should reduce the infection date moving forward, but it's just too far away at the minute to have an immediate effect.
It's a harsh reality that some people will fail to get treatment has a result of current NHS pressures, but a judgement call has to be made which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.

[trueblue1234]

Ahh so the genius recommends the "fizzle out" strategy.
I wonder was that what our Government tried in December where cases went from 400 a day up to 5 or 6,000.
Would that be Covid fizzling out?

That would be yet another failed lockdown strategy which just like the first one, did not work.

You're really vocal about Covid but do you care about unemployment, mental health and suicides, domestic violence and other forms of abuse, care services and supports to people with mental and physical disabilities, the education and social development of children etc? You quite clearly seem to be giving those groupings the two fingers because lockdowns will have a very long lasting and serious impact on all those vulernable groupings. But you have no problem throwing your two fingers up at their needs.

Lockdowns worked.

Reasonable restrictions - not so much.

Absolute horseshit.

They have failed, unequivocally.

Reasonable restrictions? Yes absolutely. They have been a complete shambles.

Reasonable restrictions allow for people to go and out and work, for businesses to stay open, for vulnerable groupings to avail of support services, look after their physical and mental health, for domestic abuse victims to have some manner of escape and support from their abuser.

Tell those groupings we need another lockdown.

Reasonable restrictions failed 3 times. Plaese don't tell me you would want to return to that, where people can't be treated in hospital due to stress on the NHS, Where cancer people are dying because of hospitals being overrun, where support services can't operate as  staff are isolating. And on top of that where the death rate is 80K+ above the average.

No one would argue for that surely.

They haven't failed the groupings I've outlined who you have once again dismissed as an irrelevance or an inconvenience.

Cancer patients are dying as a result of lockdowns. Why are Covid patients the priority? Why don't we have a specialist cancer hospital during this where Covid cases are not admitted?

I didn't, We discussed then at length yesterday, you should know you were involved. I just don't intend to do that dance again.

And you've reverted to type again. Covid, covid, covid - forget everything else. Decisions should be made with a big picture outlook. Lockdowns cause a lot more damage than good and I think that's going to show over time.

Covid covid covid yes. Because it over runs everything if not controlled and that then affects everything. We are seeing first hand now what reasonable restrictions have done. A complete mess.

[Angelo]

They are cancelling operations as there are no flipping ICU beds available ffs!

Mother in-law needs open heart surgery and is stuck in hospital and there are no operations available for a critical much needed life threatening op!

The reason she can't have the surgery is because we have fuckwits out there not giving a dam and going about as if there is no virus!

How dumb can one be?

I'm sorry to hear that.

This is due to a chronically underfunded, under resourced health service.

Maybe the reason people are going out there not giving a damn is because lockdowns have failed. How many more lockdowns do you think are needed?

[Milltown Row2]

Angelo, can you fill in the rest of this please, and then show me when we did this that it didn't lead to the numbers rising, and did the numbers rise because we went into lockdown

Another post dismissing any vulnerable grouping that is not a Covid statistic.

There's more to this than people who get Covid you know but f**k them right?

I'm asking a simple question, I'm not arguing with you, as its pointless, just want to know other than the ones I've listed is there something missing? If so we should look at it sensibly and ask for those life saving restrictions to come back into play

But you are completing disregarding any grouping other than Covid.

Another guy who has Covid tunnel vision.

During Lockdown, decisions were made to stop cancer screenings and other appointments. This led to cancer diagnoses dropping rapidly during lockdown periods. We were happy to let cancer spread in people to stop Covid. Why? Cancer kills how many people every year and we abandoned that fight to focus on Covid. We abandoned every other physicla and mental ailment that ravages people every year to focus soleley on Covid. It's ok I suppose we can probably chalk them down as a Covid death at the end of the day to justify it.

Don't remind me what cancer does, I've dealt with it since March and buried my dad with it in November so you can keep your details and what people go through with cancer..

So if we stick to the title thread and covid, and not having a covid tunnel vision head. What restrictions would improve the numbers for covid other than lockdown? BTW I don't like lockdown as it greatly reduced my own personal and business needs but you haven't answered my question.

I buried my uncle a few months back to cancer. He was diagnosed with it a few weeks before he died. Lockdowns and a focus solely on Covid was the reason for it.

I'm not interested in tackling things based solely on Covid, I am only interested in tackling things with a wider view for the benefit of society and you have shown your own weakness there. You don't care about the consequential damage as long as Covid is dealt with. You don't care that the cure could be far worse than the problem.

. If he died after a few weeks of getting it then an operation wouldn't have helped him, if you know about cancer then you'd know that much. You still haven't answered, the reason why you can't answer is because, you are wrong.

The other people will be cared for if we had the ability to open up these services, but due to the high numbers and the deranged anti vaccers/non covid believers we can't, otherwise the numbers keep going up, beds become full ICU is at capacity and staffing levels drop because of covid and you can see the knock on effect?

[Angelo]

I think it's generally accepted by everyone other than Angelo that lockdowns were successful in what they were doing. Reducing the numbers. Unfortunately it's quite clear to everyone that Angelo preferred actions after lockdown were complete failures which unfortunately lead back to lockdowns.

Unfortunately it looks like we should have locked down harder and earlier this time round as things are turning into a clusterfuck and I fully expect some grime reading over the next 7-10 days.

Yes I agree with this.
No one wants lockdown and everyone gets the wide range of problems they introduce.
But, to use one of Angelo's terms, the definition of madness would be to just plod on regardless. The NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be.
It seems Angelo can only see a single view point and is eithe unwilling or unable to see that covid at this point in time is the single biggest strain on the NHS in terms of hospital admissions.
To reduce this strain and in doing so enable the NHS to treat other conditions a lockdown is the only way for a quick improvement.
The vaccine should reduce the infection date moving forward, but it's just too far away at the minute to have an immediate effect.
It's a harsh reality that some people will fail to get treatment has a result of current NHS pressures, but a judgement call has to be made which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.

What utter horseshit, what a complete contradiction.

I have a broad view that we should not solely be looking at the consequences in terms of Covid. We shjould be looking at it an overall consequence and the overall impact on society as a whole.

You on the other hand have one singular view, Covid. You dismiss out of hand, cannot countenance any reality of the cure (lockdowns) being a bigger danger than the problem (Covid). You just will not even dare countenance that potential reality.

And then you have the utter nerve to come out that wholly illogical, nonsensical statement.

[Angelo]

Angelo, can you fill in the rest of this please, and then show me when we did this that it didn't lead to the numbers rising, and did the numbers rise because we went into lockdown

Another post dismissing any vulnerable grouping that is not a Covid statistic.

There's more to this than people who get Covid you know but f**k them right?

I'm asking a simple question, I'm not arguing with you, as its pointless, just want to know other than the ones I've listed is there something missing? If so we should look at it sensibly and ask for those life saving restrictions to come back into play

But you are completing disregarding any grouping other than Covid.

Another guy who has Covid tunnel vision.

During Lockdown, decisions were made to stop cancer screenings and other appointments. This led to cancer diagnoses dropping rapidly during lockdown periods. We were happy to let cancer spread in people to stop Covid. Why? Cancer kills how many people every year and we abandoned that fight to focus on Covid. We abandoned every other physicla and mental ailment that ravages people every year to focus soleley on Covid. It's ok I suppose we can probably chalk them down as a Covid death at the end of the day to justify it.

Don't remind me what cancer does, I've dealt with it since March and buried my dad with it in November so you can keep your details and what people go through with cancer..

So if we stick to the title thread and covid, and not having a covid tunnel vision head. What restrictions would improve the numbers for covid other than lockdown? BTW I don't like lockdown as it greatly reduced my own personal and business needs but you haven't answered my question.

I buried my uncle a few months back to cancer. He was diagnosed with it a few weeks before he died. Lockdowns and a focus solely on Covid was the reason for it.

I'm not interested in tackling things based solely on Covid, I am only interested in tackling things with a wider view for the benefit of society and you have shown your own weakness there. You don't care about the consequential damage as long as Covid is dealt with. You don't care that the cure could be far worse than the problem.

. If he died after a few weeks of getting it then an operation wouldn't have helped him, if you know about cancer then you'd know that much. You still haven't answered, the reason why you can't answer is because, you are wrong.

The other people will be cared for if we had the ability to open up these services, but due to the high numbers and the deranged anti vaccers/non covid believers we can't, otherwise the numbers keep going up, beds become full ICU is at capacity and staffing levels drop because of covid and you can see the knock on effect?

Yet we are introducing all these measures for a virus whose victims are

66% over the age of 80
93% with underlying health conditions

So its ok we deny cancer victims the right to potentially life saving operations as they might only live a few weeks extra to save the lifes of people with very short life expectancies as is.

It's a contradiction.

[imtommygunn]

I think it's generally accepted by everyone other than Angelo that lockdowns were successful in what they were doing. Reducing the numbers. Unfortunately it's quite clear to everyone that Angelo preferred actions after lockdown were complete failures which unfortunately lead back to lockdowns.

Unfortunately it looks like we should have locked down harder and earlier this time round as things are turning into a clusterfuck and I fully expect some grime reading over the next 7-10 days.

Yes I agree with this.
No one wants lockdown and everyone gets the wide range of problems they introduce.
But, to use one of Angelo's terms, the definition of madness would be to just plod on regardless. The NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be.
It seems Angelo can only see a single view point and is eithe unwilling or unable to see that covid at this point in time is the single biggest strain on the NHS in terms of hospital admissions.
To reduce this strain and in doing so enable the NHS to treat other conditions a lockdown is the only way for a quick improvement.
The vaccine should reduce the infection date moving forward, but it's just too far away at the minute to have an immediate effect.
It's a harsh reality that some people will fail to get treatment has a result of current NHS pressures, but a judgement call has to be made which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.

You say the NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be. We are very very close to finding out unfortunately. If the numbers don't slow very soon - I would even say within the next week - there is big trouble. Over the last 2 days alone we have had a 57 patient increase in inpatients due to covid. I'm hopeful that this is a backlog etc of recording over christmas but if there is nearly an increase of 30 patients a day in out hospitals in the north the system is going to collapse and soon.

[Angelo]

Ahh so the genius recommends the "fizzle out" strategy.
I wonder was that what our Government tried in December where cases went from 400 a day up to 5 or 6,000.
Would that be Covid fizzling out?

That would be yet another failed lockdown strategy which just like the first one, did not work.

You're really vocal about Covid but do you care about unemployment, mental health and suicides, domestic violence and other forms of abuse, care services and supports to people with mental and physical disabilities, the education and social development of children etc? You quite clearly seem to be giving those groupings the two fingers because lockdowns will have a very long lasting and serious impact on all those vulernable groupings. But you have no problem throwing your two fingers up at their needs.

Lockdowns worked.

Reasonable restrictions - not so much.

Absolute horseshit.

They have failed, unequivocally.

Reasonable restrictions? Yes absolutely. They have been a complete shambles.

Reasonable restrictions allow for people to go and out and work, for businesses to stay open, for vulnerable groupings to avail of support services, look after their physical and mental health, for domestic abuse victims to have some manner of escape and support from their abuser.

Tell those groupings we need another lockdown.

Reasonable restrictions failed 3 times. Plaese don't tell me you would want to return to that, where people can't be treated in hospital due to stress on the NHS, Where cancer people are dying because of hospitals being overrun, where support services can't operate as  staff are isolating. And on top of that where the death rate is 80K+ above the average.

No one would argue for that surely.

They haven't failed the groupings I've outlined who you have once again dismissed as an irrelevance or an inconvenience.

Cancer patients are dying as a result of lockdowns. Why are Covid patients the priority? Why don't we have a specialist cancer hospital during this where Covid cases are not admitted?

I didn't, We discussed then at length yesterday, you should know you were involved. I just don't intend to do that dance again.

And you've reverted to type again. Covid, covid, covid - forget everything else. Decisions should be made with a big picture outlook. Lockdowns cause a lot more damage than good and I think that's going to show over time.

Covid covid covid yes. Because it over runs everything if not controlled and that then affects everything. We are seeing first hand now what reasonable restrictions have done. A complete mess.

It overruns everything.

But no to mental health
No to domestic abuse victims
No to children and their education and social development
No to the economy and unemployment and the stigma and decades of damage and hardship it will bring.

Don't even countenance the above for God sake, these groupings are an irrelevance, an inconvenience

[Milltown Row2]

They are cancelling operations as there are no flipping ICU beds available ffs!

Mother in-law needs open heart surgery and is stuck in hospital and there are no operations available for a critical much needed life threatening op!

The reason she can't have the surgery is because we have fuckwits out there not giving a dam and going about as if there is no virus!

How dumb can one be?

I'm sorry to hear that.

This is due to a chronically underfunded, under resourced health service.

Maybe the reason people are going out there not giving a damn is because lockdowns have failed. How many more lockdowns do you think are needed?

Not a sinner has said the NHS is funded properly, is be losing money since it started and is so underfunded for the population has increased by 12 million or more since introduction.. We need to pay more money into it to pay for it

We peaked in April last year when everyone knew what covid was .. So we lockdown and after 3 months of everyone off bar the essential we got it down to zero at times.. So we did that to create reduced cases for hospital. then when the numbers rose again, it was applied, this time though for some reason everyone complained, and said f**k it....

Saying f**k it and we should have this beaten isnt the reality and they were told wave 2 will come and wave 3 and so on, its not like people didn't  understand, if and a big if, if people had have continued to do the things we did through March to end of June, we'd be doing fine.. They didnt and as a result the rest of all these services that we need (not covid) related suffered, as people were laid off due to covid, people got sick, face to face became dangerous new variants..

[Milltown Row2]

Angelo, can you fill in the rest of this please, and then show me when we did this that it didn't lead to the numbers rising, and did the numbers rise because we went into lockdown

Another post dismissing any vulnerable grouping that is not a Covid statistic.

There's more to this than people who get Covid you know but f**k them right?

I'm asking a simple question, I'm not arguing with you, as its pointless, just want to know other than the ones I've listed is there something missing? If so we should look at it sensibly and ask for those life saving restrictions to come back into play

But you are completing disregarding any grouping other than Covid.

Another guy who has Covid tunnel vision.

During Lockdown, decisions were made to stop cancer screenings and other appointments. This led to cancer diagnoses dropping rapidly during lockdown periods. We were happy to let cancer spread in people to stop Covid. Why? Cancer kills how many people every year and we abandoned that fight to focus on Covid. We abandoned every other physicla and mental ailment that ravages people every year to focus soleley on Covid. It's ok I suppose we can probably chalk them down as a Covid death at the end of the day to justify it.

Don't remind me what cancer does, I've dealt with it since March and buried my dad with it in November so you can keep your details and what people go through with cancer..

So if we stick to the title thread and covid, and not having a covid tunnel vision head. What restrictions would improve the numbers for covid other than lockdown? BTW I don't like lockdown as it greatly reduced my own personal and business needs but you haven't answered my question.

I buried my uncle a few months back to cancer. He was diagnosed with it a few weeks before he died. Lockdowns and a focus solely on Covid was the reason for it.

I'm not interested in tackling things based solely on Covid, I am only interested in tackling things with a wider view for the benefit of society and you have shown your own weakness there. You don't care about the consequential damage as long as Covid is dealt with. You don't care that the cure could be far worse than the problem.

. If he died after a few weeks of getting it then an operation wouldn't have helped him, if you know about cancer then you'd know that much. You still haven't answered, the reason why you can't answer is because, you are wrong.

The other people will be cared for if we had the ability to open up these services, but due to the high numbers and the deranged anti vaccers/non covid believers we can't, otherwise the numbers keep going up, beds become full ICU is at capacity and staffing levels drop because of covid and you can see the knock on effect?

Yet we are introducing all these measures for a virus whose victims are

66% over the age of 80
93% with underlying health conditions

So its ok we deny cancer victims the right to potentially life saving operations as they might only live a few weeks extra to save the lifes of people with very short life expectancies as is.

It's a contradiction.

Its not a contradiction, If he died with a couple of weeks what life saving or longer living op would have helped the poor man? And remember I've looked and dealt with this personally..

I've also had uncles die during covid, not covid related

[Angelo]

They are cancelling operations as there are no flipping ICU beds available ffs!

Mother in-law needs open heart surgery and is stuck in hospital and there are no operations available for a critical much needed life threatening op!

The reason she can't have the surgery is because we have fuckwits out there not giving a dam and going about as if there is no virus!

How dumb can one be?

I'm sorry to hear that.

This is due to a chronically underfunded, under resourced health service.

Maybe the reason people are going out there not giving a damn is because lockdowns have failed. How many more lockdowns do you think are needed?

Not a sinner has said the NHS is funded properly, is be losing money since it started and is so underfunded for the population has increased by 12 million or more since introduction.. We need to pay more money into it to pay for it

We peaked in April last year when everyone knew what covid was .. So we lockdown and after 3 months of everyone off bar the essential we got it down to zero at times.. So we did that to create reduced cases for hospital. then when the numbers rose again, it was applied, this time though for some reason everyone complained, and said f**k it....

Saying f**k it and we should have this beaten isnt the reality and they were told wave 2 will come and wave 3 and so on, its not like people didn't  understand, if and a big if, if people had have continued to do the things we did through March to end of June, we'd be doing fine.. They didnt and as a result the rest of all these services that we need (not covid) related suffered, as people were laid off due to covid, people got sick, face to face became dangerous new variants..

And the reality of those vulnerable groupings impacted by lockdowns?

"We don't care about you"

[imtommygunn]

Listen I think all of us should be tried for our crimes to humanity here. We've been thinking of it all wrong. I've seen the light. I've realised that thinking lockdown is the only option I have means I am an evil individual who has no consideration for any vulnerable grouping in society who will be impacted by lockdown.

[JoG2]

I think it's generally accepted by everyone other than Angelo that lockdowns were successful in what they were doing. Reducing the numbers. Unfortunately it's quite clear to everyone that Angelo preferred actions after lockdown were complete failures which unfortunately lead back to lockdowns.

Unfortunately it looks like we should have locked down harder and earlier this time round as things are turning into a clusterfuck and I fully expect some grime reading over the next 7-10 days.

Yes I agree with this.
No one wants lockdown and everyone gets the wide range of problems they introduce.
But, to use one of Angelo's terms, the definition of madness would be to just plod on regardless. The NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be.
It seems Angelo can only see a single view point and is eithe unwilling or unable to see that covid at this point in time is the single biggest strain on the NHS in terms of hospital admissions.
To reduce this strain and in doing so enable the NHS to treat other conditions a lockdown is the only way for a quick improvement.
The vaccine should reduce the infection date moving forward, but it's just too far away at the minute to have an immediate effect.
It's a harsh reality that some people will fail to get treatment has a result of current NHS pressures, but a judgement call has to be made which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.

You say the NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be. We are very very close to finding out unfortunately. If the numbers don't slow very soon - I would even say within the next week - there is big trouble. Over the last 2 days alone we have had a 57 patient increase in inpatients due to covid. I'm hopeful that this is a backlog etc of recording over christmas but if there is nearly an increase of 30 patients a day in out hospitals in the north the system is going to collapse and soon.

All hospitals in the North, with the exception of Causeway are currently at surge levels. With the numbers growing...... 

[trueblue1234]

Ahh so the genius recommends the "fizzle out" strategy.
I wonder was that what our Government tried in December where cases went from 400 a day up to 5 or 6,000.
Would that be Covid fizzling out?

That would be yet another failed lockdown strategy which just like the first one, did not work.

You're really vocal about Covid but do you care about unemployment, mental health and suicides, domestic violence and other forms of abuse, care services and supports to people with mental and physical disabilities, the education and social development of children etc? You quite clearly seem to be giving those groupings the two fingers because lockdowns will have a very long lasting and serious impact on all those vulernable groupings. But you have no problem throwing your two fingers up at their needs.

Lockdowns worked.

Reasonable restrictions - not so much.

Absolute horseshit.

They have failed, unequivocally.

Reasonable restrictions? Yes absolutely. They have been a complete shambles.

Reasonable restrictions allow for people to go and out and work, for businesses to stay open, for vulnerable groupings to avail of support services, look after their physical and mental health, for domestic abuse victims to have some manner of escape and support from their abuser.

Tell those groupings we need another lockdown.

Reasonable restrictions failed 3 times. Plaese don't tell me you would want to return to that, where people can't be treated in hospital due to stress on the NHS, Where cancer people are dying because of hospitals being overrun, where support services can't operate as  staff are isolating. And on top of that where the death rate is 80K+ above the average.

No one would argue for that surely.

They haven't failed the groupings I've outlined who you have once again dismissed as an irrelevance or an inconvenience.

Cancer patients are dying as a result of lockdowns. Why are Covid patients the priority? Why don't we have a specialist cancer hospital during this where Covid cases are not admitted?

I didn't, We discussed then at length yesterday, you should know you were involved. I just don't intend to do that dance again.

And you've reverted to type again. Covid, covid, covid - forget everything else. Decisions should be made with a big picture outlook. Lockdowns cause a lot more damage than good and I think that's going to show over time.

Covid covid covid yes. Because it over runs everything if not controlled and that then affects everything. We are seeing first hand now what reasonable restrictions have done. A complete mess.

It overruns everything.

But no to mental health
No to domestic abuse victims
No to children and their education and social development
No to the economy and unemployment and the stigma and decades of damage and hardship it will bring.

Don't even countenance the above for God sake, these groupings are an irrelevance, an inconvenience

We discussed these yesterday. Actions should be taken to address the impact of lockdown on these. But the answer is not to remove lockdown. Removing lockdowns just exasperates the complete failure we have to deal with Covid in a  "normal" environment.

[imtommygunn]

I think it's generally accepted by everyone other than Angelo that lockdowns were successful in what they were doing. Reducing the numbers. Unfortunately it's quite clear to everyone that Angelo preferred actions after lockdown were complete failures which unfortunately lead back to lockdowns.

Unfortunately it looks like we should have locked down harder and earlier this time round as things are turning into a clusterfuck and I fully expect some grime reading over the next 7-10 days.

Yes I agree with this.
No one wants lockdown and everyone gets the wide range of problems they introduce.
But, to use one of Angelo's terms, the definition of madness would be to just plod on regardless. The NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be.
It seems Angelo can only see a single view point and is eithe unwilling or unable to see that covid at this point in time is the single biggest strain on the NHS in terms of hospital admissions.
To reduce this strain and in doing so enable the NHS to treat other conditions a lockdown is the only way for a quick improvement.
The vaccine should reduce the infection date moving forward, but it's just too far away at the minute to have an immediate effect.
It's a harsh reality that some people will fail to get treatment has a result of current NHS pressures, but a judgement call has to be made which is hopefully the lesser of two evils.

You say the NHS would eventually collapse and then where would we be. We are very very close to finding out unfortunately. If the numbers don't slow very soon - I would even say within the next week - there is big trouble. Over the last 2 days alone we have had a 57 patient increase in inpatients due to covid. I'm hopeful that this is a backlog etc of recording over christmas but if there is nearly an increase of 30 patients a day in out hospitals in the north the system is going to collapse and soon.

All hospitals in the North, with the exception of Causeway are currently at surge levels. With the numbers growing...... 

Yeah -  we're in big bother over the next few weeks. Big big bother.