Will you get a Covid vaccine if one becomes available in 2021?

[Milltown Row2]

So just open up and let the 80 year olds have those few weeks before they die of a respiratory death in an ICU with no family friends around them and the worst funeral arrangements you can think of!

The mind boggles, Shipman springs to mind

[Angelo]

So just open up and let the 80 year olds have those few weeks before they die of a respiratory death in an ICU with no family friends around them and the worst funeral arrangements you can think of!

The mind boggles, Shipman springs to mind

So you're supporting domestic violence then?

Fred West comes to mind.

We can both play that game.

The difference between me and you is I am trying to look at the big picture, not dismissing the needs of vulnerable groupings in the callous manner you do. f**k them right?

And btw your firs part is contracitory, if we are opening it up, we wouldn't be having no family friends or worst funeral arrangements. You can't even frame you argument without contradicting yourself.

[trueblue1234]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

Did you get any figures for that? I had a look but couldn't see any. In fact I just found the below

"In the first half of 2020, 102 suicide deaths were recorded in Northern Ireland and Nisra estimates that the overall suicide figure for this year will be somewhere between 200 and 220 - roughly in line with the provisional figures for 2019"

I can't see any data for an increase in the rate as a result of Covid.

Not sure they would be released yet. But you'd expect the surge in the latter half of the year when we have been on the end of 9 months of lockdowns, businesses closing, jobs lost, people out of touch with their routines and outlets and social isolation. What's a acceptable level of increase in suicides for you? These are the questions we need to ask ourselves when we put the needs of one group ahead of others.

There's nothing released yet but the numbers for the first half didn't seem to be impacted. So we don't know yet how significant an impact it's going to have if any. So hard to argue a case for using it as a reason for reducing lockdowns.

[Franko]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

Nope.

I argued that this is f**king horrendous but that I don't see a feasible alternative.

Again I can play your fictional games.

Just remember that your are arguing for a significant percentage of those over 60, plus a random smattering of those younger than 60 to be culled.

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu?

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that?

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you?

Up until the end of August we had 3 men who were aged in their 40s die from Covid.

We have a vaccination program for the flu and a health service that seems to be calibrated so it can just about treat everyone suffering from flu in the best way current medical knowledge deems possible.

Unfortunately, for this disease, we have one which is only coming online and which a few simpletons will refuse and another which is nowhere near able to cope.

Those issues need addressed, but like I have said multiple times - that ship has sailed for now.

[Angelo]

If that's the route we are going down, I'd ask Angelo where he had posted his concerns about mental health, domestic abuse or suicides?

He's clearly very concerned about these issues at the minute, so I'd assume he's posted about it elsewhere before this pandemic?

The issues were exasperated by lockdowns.

I'm concerned about the overall picture. I'm concerned that lockdowns do much more damage overall than they do good. I'm worried the failed cure is a lot worse than the initial problem.

Did you get any figures for that? I had a look but couldn't see any. In fact I just found the below

"In the first half of 2020, 102 suicide deaths were recorded in Northern Ireland and Nisra estimates that the overall suicide figure for this year will be somewhere between 200 and 220 - roughly in line with the provisional figures for 2019"

I can't see any data for an increase in the rate as a result of Covid.

Not sure they would be released yet. But you'd expect the surge in the latter half of the year when we have been on the end of 9 months of lockdowns, businesses closing, jobs lost, people out of touch with their routines and outlets and social isolation. What's a acceptable level of increase in suicides for you? These are the questions we need to ask ourselves when we put the needs of one group ahead of others.

There's nothing released yet but the numbers for the first half didn't seem to be impacted. So we don't know yet how significant an impact it's going to have if any. So hard to argue a case for using it as a reason for reducing lockdowns.

So just wait until the damage is done so?

[Angelo]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

Nope.

I argued that this is f**king horrendous but that I don't see a feasible alternative.

Again I can play your fictional games.

Just remember that your are arguing for a significant percentage of those over 60, plus a random smattering of those younger than 60 to be culled.

Up until the end of August we had 3 men who were aged in their 40s die from Covid.

We have a vaccination program for the flu and a health service that seems to be calibrated so it can just about treat everyone suffering from flu in the best way current medical knowledge deems possible.

Unfortunately, for this disease, we have one which is only coming online and which a few simpletons will refuse and another which is nowhere near able to cope.

Those issues need addressed, but like I have said multiple times - that ship has sailed for now.

Answer the questions:

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu?

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that?

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you?

[imtommygunn]

Lockdowns are not only because people are dying. People are going to die from flu or from this.

[Angelo]

Lockdowns are not only because people are dying. People are going to die from flu or from this.

Yes.

And I'll ask you again.

What about the damage lockdowns cause? Never seems to enter your equation, pass it off, shrug your shoulders, doesn't matter, not worth thinking about.

[Milltown Row2]

So just open up and let the 80 year olds have those few weeks before they die of a respiratory death in an ICU with no family friends around them and the worst funeral arrangements you can think of!

The mind boggles, Shipman springs to mind

So you're supporting domestic violence then?

Fred West comes to mind.

We can both play that game.

The difference between me and you is I am trying to look at the big picture, not dismissing the needs of vulnerable groupings in the callous manner you do. f**k them right?

Figures for people hospitalized for covid and the difference in suicides that you have been presented with is off the chart!!!

So I'll answer your question, I'm not ever supporting domestic violence , the police have not stopped working and the services are still working. So people can still get in contact and report to the various different groups. Is it on the rise? I'm sure it is.

Now, do you think letting people die earlier, go through the type of death, and families have funeral arrangements that we have currently is ok? also long as you can have a pint in the local and go about your day, as you don't fall into that bracket, so f**k them!

Fred didnt kill Rose, she was a willing colleague in his game of being a serial killer, not a domestic abuser.

[imtommygunn]

Who's shrugging it off?

Just because you think there is no alternative to lockdown with the way things are going doesn't mean you are shrugging off the implications of them.

Do you think if you approve of lockdown that you don't care about people?

Approval vs thinking something is unfortunately a necessary evil are not the same thing.

[Franko]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

Nope.

I argued that this is f**king horrendous but that I don't see a feasible alternative.

Again I can play your fictional games.

Just remember that your are arguing for a significant percentage of those over 60, plus a random smattering of those younger than 60 to be culled.

Up until the end of August we had 3 men who were aged in their 40s die from Covid.

We have a vaccination program for the flu and a health service that seems to be calibrated so it can just about treat everyone suffering from flu in the best way current medical knowledge deems possible.

Unfortunately, for this disease, we have one which is only coming online and which a few simpletons will refuse and another which is nowhere near able to cope.

Those issues need addressed, but like I have said multiple times - that ship has sailed for now.

Answer the questions:

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu?

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that?

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you?

I already have.

[Milltown Row2]

In September the Samaritans when asked about possible increase in suicides due to lockdown said they did not believe so based on the demand for their services.

Have you got something to back that up.

The Samaritans released a study in conjunction with the University of Glasgow that stated Lockdowns had a severe impact on the mental health of our young people in particular and the impact of Lockdowns on mental health was likely to be "profound and long lasting". It also showed an "increasing rate in suicidal thoughts". That was published back in October.

It's going to be 6 months down the line so tell us what is acceptable for you in terms of excess suicides this year?

This will all come out in the wash in the months/years to come.

If suicides and mental health issues spike in the incoming months/years then that will be yet another tragic outcome of this.

The problem is that we have to do something now.  We can't wait for data that may or may not ever come before doing something.

And almost every government in the world cannot see a better alternative than some level of societal lockdown.

There is light at the end of the tunnel though

A guy Angelo on the gah board knows the answer

But unfortunately he won't tell anyone what it is

So we have to do something now for Covid?

But we don't do anything now for mental health or suicides?

Right.

Not saying it will always be like this, but this is an excerpt from an editorial published in the BMJ in Novermber 2020.

Nevertheless, a reasonably consistent picture is beginning to emerge from high income countries. Reports suggest either no rise in suicide rates (Massachusetts, USA11; Victoria, Australia13; England14) or a fall (Japan,9 Norway15) in the early months of the pandemic. The picture is much less clear in low income countries, where the safety nets available in better resourced settings may be lacking. News reports of police data from Nepal suggest a rise in suicides,12 whereas an analysis of data from Peru suggests the opposite.10

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4352

In the early months. We are now closing in on 12 months. We are in Lockdown 3.0 with businesses folding, jobs being lost, schools shut again etc etc.

It's all going to come out in the wash. Just remember you argued for this.

Nope.

I argued that this is f**king horrendous but that I don't see a feasible alternative.

Again I can play your fictional games.

Just remember that your are arguing for a significant percentage of those over 60, plus a random smattering of those younger than 60 to be culled.

Up until the end of August we had 3 men who were aged in their 40s die from Covid.

We have a vaccination program for the flu and a health service that seems to be calibrated so it can just about treat everyone suffering from flu in the best way current medical knowledge deems possible.

Unfortunately, for this disease, we have one which is only coming online and which a few simpletons will refuse and another which is nowhere near able to cope.

Those issues need addressed, but like I have said multiple times - that ship has sailed for now.

Answer the questions:

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu?

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that?

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you?

Answer the questions:

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu? There is a yearly vaccine program for this, it's been in place for a while now

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that? Maybe we should encourage the elderly to sanitize, reduced contact and was hands more often through the winter. Not a bad thing going forward

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you? No death is acceptable, whether its flu, covid, cancer or death drivers!! If there is a way of reducing them then its unacceptable not to put in measures that will save or let someone live longer

[Angelo]

Figures for people hospitalized for covid and the difference in suicides that you have been presented with is off the chart!!!

So I'll answer your question, I'm not ever supporting domestic violence , the police have not stopped working and the services are still working. So people can still get in contact and report to the various different groups. Is it on the rise? I'm sure it is.



Fred didnt kill Rose, she was a willing colleague in his game of being a serial killer, not a domestic abuser.

Figures for people hospitalized for covid and the difference in suicides that you have been presented with is off the chart!!!

How do you know? You don't but it is a huge cause for concern and people within the mental health field are extremely worried about the consequences of lockdowns. This information has all to come to light and here you are dismissing it.

So I'll answer your question, I'm not ever supporting domestic violence , the police have not stopped working and the services are still working. So people can still get in contact and report to the various different groups. Is it on the rise? I'm sure it is.

Domestic violence reports have increased hugely during lockdowns, massively. People are subjected to spend more time locked indoors with their abuser and lockdowns are the cause of it. Once again you are belittling and demeaning these victims as an inconvenience.

Now, do you think letting people die earlier, go through the type of death, and families have funeral arrangements that we have currently is ok? also long as you can have a pint in the local and go about your day, as you don't fall into that bracket, so f**k them!

First of all I don't the type of funeral arrangements we have are ok. They are another consequence of lockdowns, so if you have an issue with people not being able to give their loved ones a proper send off then why are you supporting the mechanism which stops them from doing so? I couldn't give a toss about going to my local but I do care about society as a whole. If the pubs never reopened again it would only be a mild inconvenience to me. I am worried about the mental health of people, I am worried about the long term consequences of unemployment, do the economy, to society, to people on a personal level.

The way I look at it is, we have a choice, to enrich the lives of the young, fit and healthy - to give them the opportunities to enjoy the best years of their lives. And right now we are causing huge, huge consequences to society, far reaching and long lasting to what end? It's grand we have clarified domestic abuse victims are one of the groupings you don't give a toss about though.

[Angelo]

Who's shrugging it off?

Just because you think there is no alternative to lockdown with the way things are going doesn't mean you are shrugging off the implications of them.

Do you think if you approve of lockdown that you don't care about people?

Approval vs thinking something is unfortunately a necessary evil are not the same thing.

You are.

Do you accept the cure could be worse than the problem?

[Angelo]

Answer the questions:

Do you see an alternative to people dying from flu? There is a yearly vaccine program for this, it's been in place for a while now

Maybe we should lockdown every winter to prevent that? Maybe we should encourage the elderly to sanitize, reduced contact and was hands more often through the winter. Not a bad thing going forward

Or are people dying from flu acceptable to you? No death is acceptable, whether its flu, covid, cancer or death drivers!! If there is a way of reducing them then its unacceptable not to put in measures that will save or let someone live longer

1. We have a vaccine for Covid now too, being ran in conjuction with a draconian lockdown so what's your point?

2. But no lockdown right, what did he die from? Flu. Ah good enough for him. He can die from anything as long as it's not Covid.

3. Well why do you accept excess deaths every winter from flu? Every year we accept these deaths without a need for lockdown. A lockdown would prevent and certainly minimise the numbers of deaths for flu. But no, it's acceptable to die from flu but not Covid.

What a hypocrite.