Antrim Football Thread

[saffron sam2]

Could Mickey Harte take Antrim to an Ulster title in two/three years? I`d say very possibly.

I'd say no, because he is only one of the three integral parts needed to be successful.

Do we have a county board or equivalent or Club Tyrone with sufficient interest, far-sightedness and financial backing to ensure all the manager's requirements are met?

Do we have a group of players who are dedicated enough to make the sacrifices required to be successful at senior inter-county level?

I would suggest that the answer to my two questions would both be No.

Until we have a county board, senior squad and senior management team with a similar level of interest, knowledge and application as your good self (for example) or Tyrone, then Antrim will remain very much stuck in their current mire.

[imtommygunn]

Bannside lets put our ulster championship matches of the last 25 years as a table:

P                 W                D           L
30                2                 3           25

That may not be 100% accurate but if not it's very close.

Now we have more players playing sigerson than ever before - and playing well - so there's no doubt that we need to, and should be, optimistic.

Here's what I would think best case we could read after 2 years would be...

P                W               D             L
35               5                3             27

With 2/3 wins in the qualifiers. That's very optimistic - let's walk before we can run!!

Many things are possible. You look at the difference in those tables there - that would be a 100%+ improvement so it is hardly pessimistic!

[Maximus Marillius]

Winning an Ulster in two years might be a bit fanciful, but not at all impossible. If I said three would you feel it is a bit more achievable?

In any event, sport is littered with teams that have been transformed within two years. In most cases the common denominator is a good management set up, and a good support network, and some real talent that has never properly been given the chance to obtain optimum level achievement.

Celtic pre Martin O Neill, or Jock Stein for that matter. Couldnt win an argument.

For Stein to take a group of 11 men from a thirty mile radius of Glasgow, to the heights of a European Cup, is proof that EVERYTHING is possible.

GAA history also littered with countless examples, Clare hurling, Waterford hurling, Laois and Kildare football, never mind our own St Galls.

Good organisation, committment and hard work will go a long way in any team environment.

Could Mickey Harte take Antrim to an Ulster title in two/three years? I`d say very possibly.

Its only as unachievable as you want to make it. The current squad will be our best in a long time, and will be peaking in two/three years. Open the eyes, please. Lets get them every chance they deserve.

Bannside you need to go and see a doctor Antrim have gotten to 1 Ulster semifinal in 25 years and now your saying can win an Ulster without as much as minor title.

It sure proves the world is full of fanatics

[ONeill]

Its only as unachievable as you want to make it. The current squad will be our best in a long time, and will be peaking in two/three years. Open the eyes, please. Lets get them every chance they deserve.

Do you not think that missing Kevin McGourty and Sean Kelly seriously lessens the quality of the players potentially available to the county? For Antrim to win an Ulster title, they need to maximise what they have, not attempt to make a silk purse....

Monaghan/Tyrone/Armagh
Derry/Donegal/Fermanagh/Down
Cavan/Antrim

Is that a fair three-tier summary in the province? To get Antrim mixing competently in that second tier would be a major achievement.

[Minder]

If Mickey Harte was the Antrim manager "Shaws Road" would probably take umbrage with him and leave the panel because Harte was not clean shaven.

[lynchbhoy]

My point is that Kerry's senior success far outweighs anything they have achieved at underage level. Kerry may indeed have more minor titles than any other county; a total of 11 in fact. The total that Tyrone and Derry have managed between them. Your logic would therefore dictate that Tyrone and Derry should have a Senior tally that roughly corresponds to Kerry's. Kerry have 35, Tyrone 3 and Derry 1.

this is part one of my point - underage success doe not mean senior success will follow.

the converse must also be possible - that senior success can also be possible with no underage success

ok if we take all the other contentious examples out of it and leave in just the one - dublin (with sherlock and maybe keith galvin from the minor side that got to /won the leinster championship final)
it shows you do not need strong underage - in fact the dublin set up up until recent times would be so disjointed that underage had no path through to senior (unless from certain 2 or 3 clubs).

[lynchbhoy]

O'neill you will find LB will never admit that you have proved your point. The main premise of the discussion was that you don't need successful underage teams either at minor or u21 to win senior intercounty provincial or All Ireland championships. You have more than adequately proved that all winning teams have a number of these succesful players in there ranks. LB should concede on this point, but I also agree with LB that a manager will make all the difference on how successful that group will be at senior. i.e if Harte was not with Tyrone it is hard to image that they would have won 3 seniors in 5 years. in other words the two go hand in hand to be a successful senior team

that wasnt my point
my point is the second part - where a good manager can use the players at his disposalto create a winning team.

Eire og would be an example of that. Invidually average - onloy three of them on the CARLOW team in their hayday , yet in combination and collectively, one of the top club sides in Ireland for approx 4 years (still couldnt win an all Ireland though).

Antrim could be very competitive in a couple of years time with a newer crop of talent coming through , and players seeing the st galls example and thinking that they could at last be winners !
Thats a start. Lets hope the next two years wont p**s them off.

[lynchbhoy]

Winning an Ulster in two years might be a bit fanciful, but not at all impossible. If I said three would you feel it is a bit more achievable?

In any event, sport is littered with teams that have been transformed within two years. In most cases the common denominator is a good management set up, and a good support network, and some real talent that has never properly been given the chance to obtain optimum level achievement.

Celtic pre Martin O Neill, or Jock Stein for that matter. Couldnt win an argument.

For Stein to take a group of 11 men from a thirty mile radius of Glasgow, to the heights of a European Cup, is proof that EVERYTHING is possible.

GAA history also littered with countless examples, Clare hurling, Waterford hurling, Laois and Kildare football, never mind our own St Galls.

Good organisation, committment and hard work will go a long way in any team environment.

Could Mickey Harte take Antrim to an Ulster title in two/three years? I`d say very possibly.

Its only as unachievable as you want to make it. The current squad will be our best in a long time, and will be peaking in two/three years. Open the eyes, please. Lets get them every chance they deserve.

Bannside you need to go and see a doctor Antrim have gotten to 1 Ulster semifinal in 25 years and now your saying can win an Ulster without as much as minor title.

It sure proves the world is full of fanatics

cant say he's wrong !
Fermanagh almost did...

[ExiledGael]

Its only as unachievable as you want to make it. The current squad will be our best in a long time, and will be peaking in two/three years. Open the eyes, please. Lets get them every chance they deserve.

Do you not think that missing Kevin McGourty and Sean Kelly seriously lessens the quality of the players potentially available to the county? For Antrim to win an Ulster title, they need to maximise what they have, not attempt to make a silk purse....

Monaghan/Tyrone/Armagh
Derry/Donegal/Fermanagh/Down
Cavan/Antrim

Is that a fair three-tier summary in the province? To get Antrim mixing competently in that second tier would be a major achievement.

Interesting opinions on this thread as always but how in the hell can everyone deem Monaghan as a top tier team? What exactly have they done at the business end of a season but go down with a fight?

[ONeill]

ok if we take all the other contentious examples out of it and leave in just the one - dublin (with sherlock and maybe keith galvin from the minor side that got to /won the leinster championship final)

Walsh, Stynes and Clarke all had All-Ireland minor medals as well. Maybe others if I look hard enough.

[bannside]

Please refer to my posts yesterday. Maybe no underage silverware was achieved, but the next bunch coming through will all have enjoyed good competitive victories against some of Ulsters finest.

Armagh won the all ireland u-21`s in 2004, beating a full Derry side by 14 points in the Ulster final at Casement. Earlier, they had great trouble beating Antrim in Crossmaglen - and Antrim had three big players missing.

Two years later most of this same group were around when Antrim could/should have beaten Tyrone in Omagh, with Crozier/CJ unavailable. They had previously dispatched Fermanagh by 12 points.

Maybe I have a more nostalgic view of this than some others, due to an involvement - but Im telling you a lot of these guys do not suffer from the same inferiority complex that has crucified Antrim teams for so long.

Plus we have the added bonus of St Galls, who have shown that winning is possible, and a whole clutch of Antrim players figuring prominently at Sigerson level.

Call me a fanatic, or a lunatic if you want, but in the right hands Antrim could make serious progress in the next few years.

[Maximus Marillius]

Winning an Ulster in two years might be a bit fanciful, but not at all impossible. If I said three would you feel it is a bit more achievable?

In any event, sport is littered with teams that have been transformed within two years. In most cases the common denominator is a good management set up, and a good support network, and some real talent that has never properly been given the chance to obtain optimum level achievement.

Celtic pre Martin O Neill, or Jock Stein for that matter. Couldnt win an argument.

For Stein to take a group of 11 men from a thirty mile radius of Glasgow, to the heights of a European Cup, is proof that EVERYTHING is possible.

GAA history also littered with countless examples, Clare hurling, Waterford hurling, Laois and Kildare football, never mind our own St Galls.

Good organisation, committment and hard work will go a long way in any team environment.

Could Mickey Harte take Antrim to an Ulster title in two/three years? I`d say very possibly.

Its only as unachievable as you want to make it. The current squad will be our best in a long time, and will be peaking in two/three years. Open the eyes, please. Lets get them every chance they deserve.

Bannside you need to go and see a doctor Antrim have gotten to 1 Ulster semifinal in 25 years and now your saying can win an Ulster without as much as minor title.

It sure proves the world is full of fanatics

cant say he's wrong !
Fermanagh almost did...

We talking Antrim in its current state.

[Maximus Marillius]

Please refer to my posts yesterday. Maybe no underage silverware was achieved, but the next bunch coming through will all have enjoyed good competitive victories against some of Ulsters finest.

Armagh won the all ireland u-21`s in 2004, beating a full Derry side by 14 points in the Ulster final at Casement. Earlier, they had great trouble beating Antrim in Crossmaglen - and Antrim had three big players missing.

Two years later most of this same group were around when Antrim could/should have beaten Tyrone in Omagh, with Crozier/CJ unavailable. They had previously dispatched Fermanagh by 12 points.

Maybe I have a more nostalgic view of this than some others, due to an involvement - but Im telling you a lot of these guys do not suffer from the same inferiority complex that has crucified Antrim teams for so long.

Plus we have the added bonus of St Galls, who have shown that winning is possible, and a whole clutch of Antrim players figuring prominently at Sigerson level.

Call me a fanatic, or a lunatic if you want, but in the right hands Antrim could make serious progress in the next few years.

Bannside I have read all your posts and your as mad as a hatter.  Its all ifs and buts. But this i agree with, Antrim in thier current state with no support at board level or support at infacstructure level ie no Club Antrim for the footy, will not win a bar of soap at championship level for soem time.

[fitzroyalty]

I think one thing everyone can agree with is the potential in Antrim. Some serious players in Crozier, McCann, Loughrey, CJ etc. I can see where bannside is coming from because Antrim have as good a pool of young players as any of the other Ulster counties. With the right structures in place Antrim football would no doubt improve dramatically but sadly I can't see this happening. For this year IMO promotion from Div4, at least one victory in the USFC and a run in the qualifiers would all seem realistic targets.

[bannside]

FitzRoyalty, theres not an Antrim supporter alive who wouldnt settle right now for just that.

Max, not disagree with you at all that we dont have the correct support structure in place to facilitate success. This has to be led from the top, and unfortunately their neither seems to be the ambition or the desire, at board level.

Can we all at least agree that we have a decent bunch coming through, and that both the new management and the players deserve to be given every possible help to attain a higher performance level, in a sustainable way.

The Doctor still has to convince me that he really wants the best for Antrim Football. Maybe if he did so, I might get off his case a little. But trust me I know a bit more than the average bear about Antrim Football, and it still hurts to know that we have not made provision to use every possible facility at the high performance centre in UUJ, which is on our doorsteps. Not to mention the range of support services available there.

We have made excuses for too long. Its time for a lot of people to get the finger out!