Poppy Watch

[Itchy]

yeah, I think that most people in Britain wear it and see it for what it is, regardless of what the media and government try to shove down our throats... NI different problem altogether

Do most people in Britain wear one? I doubt it.

[yellowcard]

In general the poppy is meant to be a symbol of peace and sadness that war has caused death. they are sold to collect money to help people who have been bereaved by these conflicts.

All good so far except that the story doesn't end there. It is quite clear that it is now used as a symbol of vitriol. It is a marker not of sadness at all conflict death but a glorifying of victories and the glory of battle itself. If we say all conflicts are sad and regrettable then how can the poppy and poppy day be used to glorify the military effort? It has become a pseudo glorification not condemnation of war.

Also it has become a defacto symbol of everything it should be opposed to. To refuse to wear one means being treated with disgust by our media. When the fact that the poppy exists should be only justified in allowing freedom as a result of the bloodshed instead of allowing only the freedom to do exactly as the bullies tell you (kinda sounds like the very thing that was being fought).

In principle I think it is fair to say - You may be right, but I will only agree with you when you stop saying I am not allowed to choose anything other than agreeing with you.

As for closer to home. No English, Scots, or Welsh villages suffered British Soldiers harassing and abusing the residents let alone shooting them.  If it were truly a symbol of peace not selfish self-righteousness then the poppy sellers would all universally condemn the atrocities of the British Army in Northern Ireland and agree it is an inappropriate symbol for us. After all they don't insist on the Germans wearing them...

Excellent post.

[Arthur_Friend]

Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

[longballin]

yeah, I think that most people in Britain wear it and see it for what it is, regardless of what the media and government try to shove down our throats... NI different problem altogether

Do most people in Britain wear one? I doubt it.

I noticed that on Match of the Day when McClean got booed for not wearing a poppy and very few in the crowd wore poppies.

[red hander]

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=shop&q=poppy%20items

Keep it f**king classy and pay tribute to the glorious British war dead (and sundry murdering Black and Tan, Auxilliary, B Special, UDR, RUC and Para scum) by flaunting your Dried Flower Poppy Pods Business Cards, Poppy Remembrance Bell Jar, Cast Iron Poppy Bird Feeders and Poppy Remembrance Fairy.

At the going down of the sun, we will make money out of them 

[BennyCake]

If you can look at from a charity thing, rather than whatever makes you rage thing then its a good cause..

I dislike the British empire, as much as the next guy but really, who gives a fcuk? A lot of gurnning over a poppy flower, dig in over November and end of October and you'll come out unscathed

I've said before in the context of GB I see no issue with the poppy or the cause. In fact given the lack of support for ex military in Britain I see the need. In NI it is divisive and my point only is that in the circumstances where the IFA bleat on about being cross community they take every opportunity to embrace Britishness, at least be honest and open about it. I won't watch the match for those reasons. This is also a forum and without gurning there is no point to it.

Yes that's my point. If soldiers fight for a government, that government should look after them, should they not? But the Poppy Appeal removes the governments responsibility for doing that. The appeal might do a good jobs helping ex soldiers, but why isn't their government doing it?

That's why it is pushed in the media so much. The more it's pushed, the less the government need to do.

[BennyCake]

I suppose my point is that the only people who will be proud of him are those in agreement. I'm sure it comes as no surprise that despite the truth in the comments above there are many in the Country who think he should wear one.

James McClean should not have been put into that position in the first place.

[seafoid]

They never mention the trenches of Belgium
When they stopped fighting and they were one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iRgtzZ-mOQo

[stew]

Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

[Therealdonald]

Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

Speaking Russian or German wouldn't have been the worst outcome in my opinion from WWII....

[BennyCake]

Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

Ironic though that the Allies won, and Ireland still ended up being ruled by the Germans. So, neutrality was the best thing. Saved a lot of agro.

[seafoid]

Can anyone please tell me which war the British Army fought which was about freedom?

Well they kind of helped the world out between 1939-45, if they had caved we would be speaking Russian or German by this point, magnificently the Irish government decided to remain neutral and accept whatever fate came to them depending on who won, thankfully the allies won in large part to the yanks getting involved with armies and their air force, navy etc after Pearl Harbor.

The Soviets beat the Nazis. Just 27 million dead to do it. The war was over after Stalingrad. D-day couldn't have happened before Stalingrad.

The Brits didn't do much in the big scheme of things.
They went into the war to defend Polish freedom and when the war was over they abandoned Poland.

[red hander]

Speaking Russian? Russia was on the allied side. Eight out of 10 Germans killed in WWII were killed by Russians on the Eastern Front.

They nearly did cave in. There was a large pro-German element in the Brit Establishment who wanted to do a deal with Hitler. There is ample evidence to suggest Edward Windsor Saxe-Coburg Gotha, the abdicated king, was a traitor who provided to the Nazis information about the state of French readiness in the area facing the Ardennes after a tour there prior to the invasion of France. The Germans changed their invasion plans as a result of that information. Churchill actually wanted him arrested and tried for treason. There is also evidence to suggest he had a deal with the Nazis that would have put him on the throne again had the pro-German element of the Brit Establishment got its way.

In the immediate aftermath of the German surrender Buckingham Palace sent Anthony Blunt on a mission to find and seize German documents that proved Edward's treachery, which he succeeded in doing. These were then destroyed by the Brit royal family. Buckingham Palace subsequently became aware of Blunt's own spying for Russia a few years later, but still retained his services despite his treachery, no doubt because he could expose their shenanigans.

We shouldn't forget, the Germans and Italians weren't the only fascists. The Brits behaved as utter fascists in their empire

[Wildweasel74]

WW2 was won at the battle of Kursk in 43; the Germans were finished after that! Yes Ww2 could be classed as a war for freedom but WW1 was based on a ridiculous treaty pack; nobody freedom was saved during the Zulu war; the Boer war; (before poppies); the crushing of rebellion in India;the communist confrontations in Korea; Vietnam; whos freedom was saved in Iraq; the allies killed more than the previous resident and left the region a mess, Allied countries tend to intervene in oil rich countries but stood by and done nothing in Rwanda and Somalia!

[Milltown Row2]

Poppy's was from the First World War because it involved so many countries and was classed as world war! The second, regardless of the stupid stuff said here about the royals and whatever, was about fighting the Nazis... anyone who thinks that had Hitler won the war would have changed his views on anything is a daft twat!

Hitler had a plan, Ireland wasn't part of it, neutrality would have counted for shit!

Any war the Brits were involved in after that was purely to back up treaties built with other countries!

There were hundreds of wars the Brits were involved in before the first and they were all based on their empire building ...

For most Brits it's about the world wars with the poppy,  over here it's about the fecking UDR RUC and The UVF! The old UVF that's what's gets up peoples goat..