QuoteTHE Leinster Council have devised a plan to help maximise the massive earning power of the Dublin's footballers, while also helping to avoid a major ticket scramble ahead of the provincial semi-finals.
The Leinster SFC semi-finals were originally scheduled as a double-header in Croke Park on June 28.
Dublin demonstrated their extraordinary pulling power by attracting 75,250 to their opening championship clash with Meath last weekend, more than double the 32,204 crowd who travelled to the Munster football semi-final between Cork and Kerry in Killarney last Sunday.
And that huge opening crowd immediately raised fears about a stampede for tickets for the Leinster semi-finals, where either Kildare or Wexford are due to play Laois or Louth and Dublin face the winners of Wicklow/Westmeath.
With expectations particularly high among Lilywhite fans this summer, their involvement in a double-header would only have exacerbated the problem.
So, the Leinster Council have provisionally arranged that if Kildare qualify, their semi-final will be taken out of Croke Park and the Dublin semi-final will be left there as a stand-alone game.
Firstly I don't care where the Kildare game is played, if we beat Wexford and that's a big bloody if, so this is all just speculation but if we do beat Wexford then you risk the possiblity of Dublin been in the Leinster Final have playing their third game in a row there whereas there possible opponents (KE, LS, LH) will be playing their first game in Croker this season, no matter what anyone says that is giving Dublin an advantage. Anyhow my main point is that the Leinster Council could be missing a fantastic opportunity to promote their games, a 82K sell-out with a mad scramble for tickets is always great copy for the papers, lets be honest anyone who deserves a ticket will get one but ticket fever always gives a great buzz in a county as it generally the first thing people talk about when they meet up. The Leinster Council imho are just been greedy and that won't reflect well in Kildare, Laois or Louth if Kildare manage to beat Wexford.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2009, 08:52:13 AM
QuoteTHE Leinster Council have devised a plan to help maximise the massive earning power of the Dublin's footballers, while also helping to avoid a major ticket scramble ahead of the provincial semi-finals.
The Leinster SFC semi-finals were originally scheduled as a double-header in Croke Park on June 28.
Dublin demonstrated their extraordinary pulling power by attracting 75,250 to their opening championship clash with Meath last weekend, more than double the 32,204 crowd who travelled to the Munster football semi-final between Cork and Kerry in Killarney last Sunday.
And that huge opening crowd immediately raised fears about a stampede for tickets for the Leinster semi-finals, where either Kildare or Wexford are due to play Laois or Louth and Dublin face the winners of Wicklow/Westmeath.
With expectations particularly high among Lilywhite fans this summer, their involvement in a double-header would only have exacerbated the problem.
So, the Leinster Council have provisionally arranged that if Kildare qualify, their semi-final will be taken out of Croke Park and the Dublin semi-final will be left there as a stand-alone game.
Firstly I don't care where the Kildare game is played, if we beat Wexford and that's a big bloody if, so this is all just speculation but if we do beat Wexford then you risk the possiblity of Dublin been in the Leinster Final have playing their third game in a row there whereas there possible opponents (KE, LS, LH) will be playing their first game in Croker this season, no matter what anyone says that is giving Dublin an advantage. Anyhow my main point is that the Leinster Council could be missing a fantastic opportunity to promote their games, a 82K sell-out with a mad scramble for tickets is always great copy for the papers, lets be honest anyone who deserves a ticket will get one but ticket fever always gives a great buzz in a county as it generally the first thing people talk about when they meet up. The Leinster Council imho are just been greedy and that won't reflect well in Kildare, Laois or Louth if Kildare manage to beat Wexford.
Hasn't been much of a advantage for the last 14 years . The LC are right to try maximise the crowd but perhaps the Kildare game should go down a double header with a Hurling semi.
QuoteHasn't been much of a advantage for the last 14 years
When was the last time Dublin played a Leinster final against an opponent that previously played all their Leinster Championship games outside Croke Park? When was the last time a Leinster football semi was played other than in Croke Park? This is about Leinster football not the All-Ireland series.
Why are they right to maximise the crowd, a Dublin stand alone semi against Wicklow/Westmeath will not be a sellout. A Kildare v Laois/Louth in Carlow/Navan would maybe attract 15K, I'd be surprised if the combined attendance hit 80K.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2009, 09:08:26 AM
QuoteHasn't been much of a advantage for the last 14 years
When was the last time Dublin played a Leinster final against an opponent that previously played all their Leinster Championship games outside Croke Park? When was the last time a Leinster football semi was played other than in Croke Park? This is about Leinster football not the All-Ireland series.
Why are they right to maximise the crowd, a Dublin stand alone semi against Wicklow/Westmeath will not be a sellout. A Kildare v Laois/Louth in Carlow/Navan would maybe attract 15K, I'd be surprised if the combined attendance hit 80K.
Your only making it about the Leinster just to exclude my point . If your good enough you will beat Dublin . They the LC are saying Kildare/Laois or Louth will be looking for 15-20k tickets each.
Playing every game in Croker in 2006 wasn't much help to Offaly.
It's about Leinster football and the Leinster Council, the All-Ireland is in effect a separate entity.
If you're good enough is just a cliche and a ridiculous assertion, sport at any level can be about margins, why do you think home advantage in any sport is so important?
To re-iterate I actually would believe Kildare have a better chance playing a semi in Navan/Carlow but I'm sure the players, management from K,LS or LH would like a game in Croker before they took on the might of the Dubs, the Leinster Council have an opportunity to the level the playing field, an opportunity that does not exist in the All-Ireland series but no they would sooner not promote their games and take the money instead.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
It's about Leinster football and the Leinster Council, the All-Ireland is in effect a separate entity.
If you're good enough is just a cliche and a ridiculous assertion, sport at any level can be about margins, why do you think home advantage in any sport is so important?
To re-iterate I actually would believe Kildare have a better chance playing a semi in Navan/Carlow but I'm sure the players, management from K,LS or LH would like a game in Croker before they took on the might of the Dubs, the Leinster Council have an opportunity to the level the playing field, an opportunity that does not exist in the All-Ireland series but no they would sooner not promote their games and take the money instead.
Are more bums on seats promoting the game? I agree time should be found in Croker for the other semi or have a double header. Why whats the point in a Dublin header if 1'000s of people can't get in the door how is that promoting the game?
playing on your home pitch (and Croke Park is Dublins home pitch) is always worth a few points, the fact that sometimes Dublin are not able to make these count doesn't mean that its not an advantage
Having said that I would rather see 2 stand alone fixtures where all who want tickets can get them
I believe the combined attendance of two stand alone fixtures would be less. Having the fixture played on the same day creates demand and all of a sudden the Leinster semi-finals become the hottest ticket in the province, sparking huge interest in the GAA and if the semi-final pairings do feature Kildare I would actually put the Leinster final tickets at a discount up for sale prior to the semi-finals been played ensuring possible another sell-out for the final.
Quote from: tyronefan on June 10, 2009, 09:37:25 AM
playing on your home pitch (and Croke Park is Dublins home pitch) is always worth a few points, the fact that sometimes Dublin are not able to make these count doesn't mean that its not an advantage
Having said that I would rather see 2 stand alone fixtures where all who want tickets can get them
When do we get the cut from renting out our home pitch every week from June to September?
Quote from: tyronefan on June 10, 2009, 09:37:25 AM
playing on your home pitch (and Croke Park is Dublins home pitch) is always worth a few points, the fact that sometimes Dublin are not able to make these count doesn't mean that its not an advantage
Having said that I would rather see 2 stand alone fixtures where all who want tickets can get them
is Parnell Park not Dublins home pitch? Croke Park is the whole associations pitch that just happens to be in Dublin. ;) ;D
Yea I think its abit disheartening for the other teams who were looking forwad to a day in Crokers. I dont really think its fair to change just because of one team. ON saying that if they can sell out Croke Park on a stand alone and closely sell out another venue in the country on the same day then of course, it makes sense for the GAA. Can someone explain why they say if Kildare qualify? Does that mean that if Wexford won they will stick to the original plan??
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2009, 08:52:13 AM
QuoteTHE Leinster Council have devised a plan to help maximise the massive earning power of the Dublin's footballers, while also helping to avoid a major ticket scramble ahead of the provincial semi-finals.
The Leinster SFC semi-finals were originally scheduled as a double-header in Croke Park on June 28.
Dublin demonstrated their extraordinary pulling power by attracting 75,250 to their opening championship clash with Meath last weekend, more than double the 32,204 crowd who travelled to the Munster football semi-final between Cork and Kerry in Killarney last Sunday.
And that huge opening crowd immediately raised fears about a stampede for tickets for the Leinster semi-finals, where either Kildare or Wexford are due to play Laois or Louth and Dublin face the winners of Wicklow/Westmeath.
With expectations particularly high among Lilywhite fans this summer, their involvement in a double-header would only have exacerbated the problem.
So, the Leinster Council have provisionally arranged that if Kildare qualify, their semi-final will be taken out of Croke Park and the Dublin semi-final will be left there as a stand-alone game.
Firstly I don't care where the Kildare game is played, if we beat Wexford and that's a big bloody if, so this is all just speculation but if we do beat Wexford then you risk the possiblity of Dublin been in the Leinster Final have playing their third game in a row there whereas there possible opponents (KE, LS, LH) will be playing their first game in Croker this season, no matter what anyone says that is giving Dublin an advantage. Anyhow my main point is that the Leinster Council could be missing a fantastic opportunity to promote their games, a 82K sell-out with a mad scramble for tickets is always great copy for the papers, lets be honest anyone who deserves a ticket will get one but ticket fever always gives a great buzz in a county as it generally the first thing people talk about when they meet up. The Leinster Council imho are just been greedy and that won't reflect well in Kildare, Laois or Louth if Kildare manage to beat Wexford.
I think Dinny is right, it should go ahead as a double header. With Dublin not being great the last day their bandwagon aint rolling yet and if anything will pull less of their own supporters than for the Meath game. Would Kildare match Meaths numbers - possibly for a game in Croker against Dublin but not for anyone else. That would leave circa 15000 tickets for the other two counties. Tight maybe but not too many would be disappointed. A packed house would be great.
Those running down the advantage/disadvantage of getting a run out at Croker before a provincial final are either clueless or mischievous.
I agree with most of what Dinny said bar the "those who deserve tickets will get tickets" nonsense. This is about encouraging people to become fans, and turning away one person who wants to go at this stage of the championship is bad when capacity is potentially there.
If Kildare beat Wexford, I think the best solution would be to have two Croke Park double bills. The Kildare Leinster semi preceeding Galway v Kilkenny and then Dublin v Wexford in the hurling preceeding Dublin v WM/WW.
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2009, 11:17:08 AM
If Kildare beat Wexford, I think the best solution would be to have two Croke Park double bills. The Kildare Leinster semi preceeding Galway v Kilkenny and then Dublin v Wexford in the hurling preceeding Dublin v WM/WW.
That makes too much sense , get off this board and don't come back till your talking total balls. ;)
Quote from: Hound on June 10, 2009, 11:17:08 AM
If Kildare beat Wexford, I think the best solution would be to have two Croke Park double bills. The Kildare Leinster semi preceeding Galway v Kilkenny and then Dublin v Wexford in the hurling preceeding Dublin v WM/WW.
I think that would be the best option alright,nevermind the fact if Laois do beat Louth to reach the semi final I would have been going to the Kilkenny/Galway game anyways so it would save me a few euros having the two games on the same day in the same venue :)
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
It's about Leinster football and the Leinster Council, the All-Ireland is in effect a separate entity.
If you're good enough is just a cliche and a ridiculous assertion, sport at any level can be about margins, why do you think home advantage in any sport is so important?
To re-iterate I actually would believe Kildare have a better chance playing a semi in Navan/Carlow but I'm sure the players, management from K,LS or LH would like a game in Croker before they took on the might of the Dubs, the Leinster Council have an opportunity to the level the playing field, an opportunity that does not exist in the All-Ireland series but no they would sooner not promote their games and take the money instead.
Dublin have a better record in provincial grounds than Croke Park Dinny. If you're going to beat Dublin it'll be in Croke park. We've only lost 1 game at provincial grounds in the last 30 years. At the end of day its about revenue in a recession and we need to maximise it. Why lose out on 2m that the association can ill afford to lose out on at the moment. I see your point but I don't think the Gaa in the current economic climate as any choice.
QuoteI agree with most of what Dinny said bar the "those who deserve tickets will get tickets" nonsense. This is about encouraging people to become fans, and turning away one person who wants to go at this stage of the championship is bad when capacity is potentially there.
I understand your point but I believe by creating a demand, you actually help promote ticket sales.
Quote
If Kildare beat Wexford, I think the best solution would be to have two Croke Park double bills. The Kildare Leinster semi preceeding Galway v Kilkenny and then Dublin v Wexford in the hurling preceeding Dublin v WM/WW.
Agree with GN, excellent suggestion and makes far too much sense
Quote from: INDIANA on June 10, 2009, 12:23:47 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on June 10, 2009, 09:29:20 AM
It's about Leinster football and the Leinster Council, the All-Ireland is in effect a separate entity.
If you're good enough is just a cliche and a ridiculous assertion, sport at any level can be about margins, why do you think home advantage in any sport is so important?
To re-iterate I actually would believe Kildare have a better chance playing a semi in Navan/Carlow but I'm sure the players, management from K,LS or LH would like a game in Croker before they took on the might of the Dubs, the Leinster Council have an opportunity to the level the playing field, an opportunity that does not exist in the All-Ireland series but no they would sooner not promote their games and take the money instead.
Dublin have a better record in provincial grounds than Croke Park Dinny. If you're going to beat Dublin it'll be in Croke park. We've only lost 1 game at provincial grounds in the last 30 years. At the end of day its about revenue in a recession and we need to maximise it. Why lose out on 2m that the association can ill afford to lose out on at the moment. I see your point but I don't think the Gaa in the current economic climate as any choice.
exactly....explaing why they are planning to take 20,000 of derry and monaghan. It is always about the money in an ameteur game. We can afford to take 20, 000 off a few counties but we can't afford to pay players. ...some joke the whole thing? Not worth debating.
QuoteDublin have a better record in provincial grounds than Croke Park Dinny. If you're going to beat Dublin it'll be in Croke park.
When was the last time Kildare, Meath, Dublin clashed in the championship outisde Croke Park, the Dubs tend to play the smaller population based counties away from Croker so not sure if that arguement holds sway. You are aware that Kildare haven't won a Leinster Championship game in Croker I think since Wicklow in 2005, the longer we stay away imho the better. Anyway I think the double header would be better for the GAA although Hounds idea is the best potential money spinner of all.
I've have no problem with Hounds idea. I'm not over the moon about having to travel to Nowlan Park.
I'm also sceptical Dinny about the pulling power of Dublin v Wicklow. If its Westmeath which its most likely you'll get at least 65,000. bUt if its wicklow- you'll get 50,000 max maybe less.
First off, we could look a bit foolish if we're beaten on Saturday night. I'm confident of a win but it wouldn't surprise me if we were beaten either.
IF we beat Wexford and this proposal comes to fruition, I think it's very pooor form from the Leinster Council. In 2005, there was a double header of the Leinster semifinals - Kildare-Laois and Dublin-Wexford. I can't recall many problems back then. It's a disgrace that professionals like Robbie Keane and Brian O'Driscoll get the red carpet rolled out for them at Croke Park and then guys like Johnny Doyle and Dermot Earley who have give so much to our association are denied the opportunity to play at hq.
It doesn't surprise me though and it is not the first time something like this has happened Kildare. Last year, Tyrone got an extra weeks rest after their last qualifier before their quarter final because they were playing the Dubs in a stand alone fixture. Kildare on the other hand, had to play four games in as many weeks because the GAA wanted a double header of the Cork hurlers and footballers - this despite all the trouble they'd caused earlier on in the year with their annual strike. Not only was it unfair to schedule the game a week after the last qualifier, it also ensured that Cork had a huge majority of support there that day.
I hope we win on Saturday so I can have a proper rant about this! ;)
Hounds suggestion is perfect so its unlikely it will happen.
Play both semis in Croker (same date, different dates, double-header, whatever) or play both at provincial venue. Fair-play must come before profit.
Tullamore/Navan could host Dublin/Westmeath and Nowlan Park/Wexford could host Dublin-Wicklow.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on June 10, 2009, 09:10:25 PM
Tullamore/Navan could host Dublin/Westmeath and Nowlan Park/Wexford could host Dublin-Wicklow.
In what world ? Navan holds 35,000 max . Westmeath will bring atleast 8-10,000. The ground you suggest for the smallest drawing match Nowlan Park has the largest capacity of all. Your in a dream world
I'm just offering my opinion on the question posed - is it fair or just damn greedy ? I think it's the latter.
Ground capacity is obviously a large factor (maximise gate, health & safety etc.) but not the most important factor.
All players and teams want to play in Croker so if one semi-final is played there then the other should be also (same day or different day).
A sizeable element of Dublin support attend Croker for the day out (nothing wrong with that) and would not travel to provincial venues.
So opposition will have a higher percentage of the attandance supporting them that would be the case in Croker - surely the Dubs can't object to this ?
It's only in recent years that all Leinster semis got played in Croker anyway.
Further to above - the element of Dublin supporters who attend the big matches in Croker but would not travel down the country.
I have no issue with this and indeed I know many and work with many of these Dubs supporters. They are genuine sports fans although a lot would not in dyed-in-the-wool GAA fans. But if match venues are fixed to accomodate these fans then it is very much the tail wagging the dog.
Of course it's an advantage for Dublin playing in Croke so regularly in comparison to the rest in their province, sure we seen how Dublin played against us (Derry) in Parnell park ;)
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on June 10, 2009, 11:14:53 PM
Further to above - the element of Dublin supporters who attend the big matches in Croker but would not travel down the country.
I have no issue with this and indeed I know many and work with many of these Dubs supporters. They are genuine sports fans although a lot would not in dyed-in-the-wool GAA fans. But if match venues are fixed to accomodate these fans then it is very much the tail wagging the dog.
Incorrect. Dublin near filled Thurles when they played Kerry in 2001. That's 100 miles away. And they did it twice in 2 weeks.
Yeah and that was only 8 years ago, ffs encore en fois was top of the charts around then.
Quote from: The Boy Wonder on June 10, 2009, 10:58:16 PM
I'm just offering my opinion on the question posed - is it fair or just damn greedy ? I think it's the latter.
Well get your facts right first .
Quote from: Donnellys Hollow on June 10, 2009, 01:30:00 PM
First off, we could look a bit foolish if we're beaten on Saturday night. I'm confident of a win but it wouldn't surprise me if we were beaten either.
IF we beat Wexford and this proposal comes to fruition, I think it's very pooor form from the Leinster Council. In 2005, there was a double header of the Leinster semifinals - Kildare-Laois and Dublin-Wexford. I can't recall many problems back then. It's a disgrace that professionals like Robbie Keane and Brian O'Driscoll get the red carpet rolled out for them at Croke Park and then guys like Johnny Doyle and Dermot Earley who have give so much to our association are denied the opportunity to play at hq.
It doesn't surprise me though and it is not the first time something like this has happened Kildare. Last year, Tyrone got an extra weeks rest after their last qualifier before their quarter final because they were playing the Dubs in a stand alone fixture. Kildare on the other hand, had to play four games in as many weeks because the GAA wanted a double header of the Cork hurlers and footballers - this despite all the trouble they'd caused earlier on in the year with their annual strike. Not only was it unfair to schedule the game a week after the last qualifier, it also ensured that Cork had a huge majority of support there that day.
I hope we win on Saturday so I can have a proper rant about this! ;)
John Doyle and Dermot Early have played in Croke Park loads of times.
I don't see what the problem is here.
It's only a Leinster semi-final for gods sake.
Jinxy misses the point shocker. ::)