Mayo v Donegal, Elverys McHale Park, Aug 03, 6pm

[Armagh18]

Are you sure?? I didn't think shouldering a man late or dragging back were.

Rules are-

1. Deliberately pull down an opponent.
2. Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
3. Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

I find it funny that a player can literally hold an opponent back which in itself is cynical but you wont get a black card. I seen a fair bit of blocking off the ball in the mayo v donegal game with no card shown. As a neutral i would say donegal were doing more off the ball blocking than mayo.

The frontal shoulder off the ball after the donegal penalty according to the rules should have been a black card. Leo blocked a mayo players run after he played the ball which should have been another black card.

The rules are not the issue its the refs who wont/dont enforce them that is the problem.

Yeah a frontal shoulder would be a black but not a late shoulder to shoulder.

Possibly not that far from the truth wobbler lol.

I think the black card isn't implemented very well but Benny I don't think you know the intended rules round it...

Does anyone? Even the referees?

I recall a player in the AI club final a year or two ago. A few mins in, shouldered opponent after he had played the ball, and got black. Castle bar were involved I think.

Can someone explain what good something like that does the game? Ruining the biggest game of a lads life over nothing.

[redzone]

Are you sure?? I didn't think shouldering a man late or dragging back were.

Rules are-

1. Deliberately pull down an opponent.
2. Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
3. Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

I find it funny that a player can literally hold an opponent back which in itself is cynical but you wont get a black card. I seen a fair bit of blocking off the ball in the mayo v donegal game with no card shown. As a neutral i would say donegal were doing more off the ball blocking than mayo.

The frontal shoulder off the ball after the donegal penalty according to the rules should have been a black card. Leo blocked a mayo players run after he played the ball which should have been another black card.

The rules are not the issue its the refs who wont/dont enforce them that is the problem.

Yeah a frontal shoulder would be a black but not a late shoulder to shoulder.

Possibly not that far from the truth wobbler lol.

I think the black card isn't implemented very well but Benny I don't think you know the intended rules round it...

Does anyone? Even the referees?

I recall a player in the AI club final a year or two ago. A few mins in, shouldered opponent after he had played the ball, and got black. Castle bar were involved I think.

Can someone explain what good something like that does the game? Ruining the biggest game of a lads life over nothing.

That was as blatant a black card as u ever seen that day

[imtommygunn]

Yeah I thought that too lol.

[dublin7]

Are you sure?? I didn't think shouldering a man late or dragging back were.

Rules are-

1. Deliberately pull down an opponent.
2. Deliberately trip an opponent with the hand(s), arm, leg or foot.
3. Deliberately body collide with an opponent after he has played the ball away or for the purpose of taking him out of a movement of play.
4. Threaten or to use abusive or provocative language or gestures to an opponent or a teammate.
5. Remonstrate in an aggressive manner with a Match Official.

I find it funny that a player can literally hold an opponent back which in itself is cynical but you wont get a black card. I seen a fair bit of blocking off the ball in the mayo v donegal game with no card shown. As a neutral i would say donegal were doing more off the ball blocking than mayo.

The frontal shoulder off the ball after the donegal penalty according to the rules should have been a black card. Leo blocked a mayo players run after he played the ball which should have been another black card.

The rules are not the issue its the refs who wont/dont enforce them that is the problem.

Yeah a frontal shoulder would be a black but not a late shoulder to shoulder.

Possibly not that far from the truth wobbler lol.

I think the black card isn't implemented very well but Benny I don't think you know the intended rules round it...

Does anyone? Even the referees?

I recall a player in the AI club final a year or two ago. A few mins in, shouldered opponent after he had played the ball, and got black. Castle bar were involved I think.

Can someone explain what good something like that does the game? Ruining the biggest game of a lads life over nothing.

Ah hang on. That was Richie Feeny v St Vincents and was a stone wall black card. Vincents player gave a pass and Feeney took him out before he could take the return pass with a late hit.

In fact I imagine it was probably used in presentations to referees for an example of what warrants a black card

[BennyCake]

So basically, the Black was for obstructing the opponent from going on and linking with the play again. Moran did likewise. McHugh was trying to get up to support the play when he was deliberately dragged back.

Just thought that sort of incident was also a black card. And if not, why not?

[Mayo4Sam14]

So basically, the Black was for obstructing the opponent from going on and linking with the play again. Moran did likewise. McHugh was trying to get up to support the play when he was deliberately dragged back.

Just thought that sort of incident was also a black card. And if not, why not?

A third man tackle is a black card, and arguably one of the more straight forward aspects of the black card. I missed the Moran instead, although I heard he was lucky, however I seen several instances throughout the game and it seemed like the ref just wasn't giving it for whatever reason.

[Rossfan]

That Feeney case was a classic black card.
Ye'll note that the rule doesn't say anything about it only applying at certain stages of a game or only in unimportant games.

[imtommygunn]

So basically, the Black was for obstructing the opponent from going on and linking with the play again. Moran did likewise. McHugh was trying to get up to support the play when he was deliberately dragged back.

Just thought that sort of incident was also a black card. And if not, why not?

I don't know the incident you are talking about but every incident you have tried to draw parallels to sounds different. Would need to see it.

Yeah feeney definite black.

[macdanger2]

So basically, the Black was for obstructing the opponent from going on and linking with the play again. Moran did likewise. McHugh was trying to get up to support the play when he was deliberately dragged back.

Just thought that sort of incident was also a black card. And if not, why not?

If he pulled him back, then it's not a black. The rule for a 3rd man tackle is "to body collide" or something to that effect. What you're describing sounds like it should be a black but currently it's not AFAIK

[macdanger2]

I watched the second half (well, from 40 mins on) of this last night and kept an eye on our kickouts of which there were 15:

1 short which we won
14 long of which:
1 we won clean (doc where he got injured)
7 were broke and we won (Keegan x 2, Boyle, McDonagh, AOS, SOS & Cillian (which he lost over the line after winning it))
3 were broke and we lost
2 Donegal won clean
1 went over the sideline (fingertip touch from AOS)

So that's a 60% win rate on our own kickouts and 7 out of 9 were from breaking balls.

I saw on twitter where we had a 65% win rate on our own kickouts and 15% on Donegal's.

If we replicate anything even close to that against Dublin, it's curtains for us unfortunately

[trileacman]

I watched the second half (well, from 40 mins on) of this last night and kept an eye on our kickouts of which there were 15:

1 short which we won
14 long of which:
1 we won clean (doc where he got injured)
7 were broke and we won (Keegan x 2, Boyle, McDonagh, AOS, SOS & Cillian (which he lost over the line after winning it))
3 were broke and we lost
2 Donegal won clean
1 went over the sideline (fingertip touch from AOS)

So that's a 60% win rate on our own kickouts and 7 out of 9 were from breaking balls.

I saw on twitter where we had a 65% win rate on our own kickouts and 15% on Donegal's.

If we replicate anything even close to that against Dublin, it's curtains for us unfortunately

Those figures are correct but that's a false equivalence in my opinion. Donegal tried to do as Kerry had done and squeeze up on your kickouts, Mayo kicked long beyond this "packed attack". Any possession won is immediately of higher value because Donegal had over-committed to the kickout press and had no sweeper at the back and acres of space to exploit.

What I'm saying is those 8 balls you won in midfield were twice as valuable an attacking platform as the short kickout you won. So comparing your kickout win rate with that of Tyrone or Dublin isn't directly comparable.

[MayoBuck]

I watched the second half (well, from 40 mins on) of this last night and kept an eye on our kickouts of which there were 15:

1 short which we won
14 long of which:
1 we won clean (doc where he got injured)
7 were broke and we won (Keegan x 2, Boyle, McDonagh, AOS, SOS & Cillian (which he lost over the line after winning it))
3 were broke and we lost
2 Donegal won clean
1 went over the sideline (fingertip touch from AOS)

So that's a 60% win rate on our own kickouts and 7 out of 9 were from breaking balls.

I saw on twitter where we had a 65% win rate on our own kickouts and 15% on Donegal's.

If we replicate anything even close to that against Dublin, it's curtains for us unfortunately

Those figures are correct but that's a false equivalence in my opinion. Donegal tried to do as Kerry had done and squeeze up on your kickouts, Mayo kicked long beyond this "packed attack". Any possession won is immediately of higher value because Donegal had over-committed to the kickout press and had no sweeper at the back and acres of space to exploit.

What I'm saying is those 8 balls you won in midfield were twice as valuable an attacking platform as the short kickout you won. So comparing your kickout win rate with that of Tyrone or Dublin isn't directly comparable.

I'd agree with that and it's probably why Hennelly will start on Saturday. Especially with the wet weather forecast, we can't be messing around with short kickouts.

[macdanger2]

I watched the second half (well, from 40 mins on) of this last night and kept an eye on our kickouts of which there were 15:

1 short which we won
14 long of which:
1 we won clean (doc where he got injured)
7 were broke and we won (Keegan x 2, Boyle, McDonagh, AOS, SOS & Cillian (which he lost over the line after winning it))
3 were broke and we lost
2 Donegal won clean
1 went over the sideline (fingertip touch from AOS)

So that's a 60% win rate on our own kickouts and 7 out of 9 were from breaking balls.

I saw on twitter where we had a 65% win rate on our own kickouts and 15% on Donegal's.

If we replicate anything even close to that against Dublin, it's curtains for us unfortunately

Those figures are correct but that's a false equivalence in my opinion. Donegal tried to do as Kerry had done and squeeze up on your kickouts, Mayo kicked long beyond this "packed attack". Any possession won is immediately of higher value because Donegal had over-committed to the kickout press and had no sweeper at the back and acres of space to exploit.

What I'm saying is those 8 balls you won in midfield were twice as valuable an attacking platform as the short kickout you won. So comparing your kickout win rate with that of Tyrone or Dublin isn't directly comparable.

Partially true but 60-65% is still a very poor success rate. And the flip side is that when we lost a kickout, they had plenty forward.

The other part of my point was that the 7 balls we won which broke could have been kicked out by anyone, it was our ability to win those breaking balls that gave us a chance at all - something that didn't happen in killarney.

[thewobbler]

Looking back upon the Kerry match, Mayo seemed surprised by Kerry's willingness for a midfield battle. That and the fact that Mayo are capable of sleeping at the best of times was a bad combination.

I'd say Dublin's stats man would likely be convinced that replicating Kerry's tactic of pushing up will bring success, but Gavin is probably wise enough to know that taking on Seamie and Aidan is an aerial battle is a risky proposition.

I'd like Mayo to concentrate more on the other half to be honest. It's almost unheard of for a team to keep Dublin penned in for a 5 minute block.

Having a basically player camp out in the Zona del Cluxton (his left half back zone) any time Mayo look like they might get a shot away, would be a great start.

[WhoDat]

gavin might do the same thing he did in the 2013 final against mayo where he just had cluxton zig zag his kickouts back and forth from each sideline and just ran o'shea ragged. fenton will be able for that, but I dont see either of the osheas having the athleticism for that