26 County General Election 2020

[macdanger2]

The short version is, FF people mostly have their roots in Gaelic Ireland. FG supporters mostly trace their roots to the Norman invasion.

Typical McWilliams, finding an old wisdom that was on the go 40 years ago (it was always said to be the difference between Charlie Haughey and Garret Fitzgerald) and dressing it up as his own.

Tbf, Haughey was also a corrupt politician who created the brown envelope culture that endured in FF for 30 odd years. The history of corruption in FF is the reason I won't be voting for them although MM doesn't seem to have been involved in it himself

MM wasn't involved? Really?

It's amazing how the media have let this story slide away over the years without it properly being addressed.

Amazing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-talk-about-money-miche%C3%A1l-1.560262

Wasn't aware of that, like you say it doesn't get much media attention. I guess anyone who was in FF during that period was probably in on it to a greater or lesser extent

When is the period where FF weren't bent?

Not sure tbh but the Charlie to Bertie era was particularly bad

[Rossfan]

Assuming the SF wind continues where will they get seats?
Donegal 2
Sligo/Leitrim/North Ros/South Donegal 1
Cavan/Monaghan 1
Louth 2
Laois/Offaly 1.
Dublin 8
Cork 3
Kerry 1
Limerick 1
After that...

[MayoBuck]

Assuming the SF wind continues where will they get seats?
Donegal 2
Sligo/Leitrim/North Ros/South Donegal 1
Cavan/Monaghan 1
Louth 2
Laois/Offaly 1.
Dublin 8
Cork 3
Kerry 1
Limerick 1
After that...

They've a chance of getting the last seat in Mayo.

[five points]

Assuming the SF wind continues where will they get seats?
Donegal 2
Sligo/Leitrim/North Ros/South Donegal 1
Cavan/Monaghan 1
Louth 2
Laois/Offaly 1.
Dublin 8
Cork 3
Kerry 1
Limerick 1
After that...

Paddy Power thinks SF will get 2 in Cavan/Monaghan.

[Angelo]

Assuming the SF wind continues where will they get seats?
Donegal 2
Sligo/Leitrim/North Ros/South Donegal 1
Cavan/Monaghan 1
Louth 2
Laois/Offaly 1.
Dublin 8
Cork 3
Kerry 1
Limerick 1
After that...

I'd expect 2 to be returned in Cavan/Monaghan, should be in with a shout of a couple in Meath.

They currently also have TDs in  Waterford, Carlow-Kilkenny and Wicklow.

I'd expect they will hit 30 seats.

[Itchy]

FF and FG are a rare bunch....spent the last few days talking about who is the most anti Sinn Fein, peculiar election strategy esp since they are polling at such a large chunk of 1st preference votes youd think they'd be looking for their transfers.

Anyway I kind of have my own ideas on it but do any of our southern voters care to share what they think is the difference between FF and FG and why they'd vote for one over the other?

There is no difference really, martin is a slightly bigger dick than Leo in my mind. Policies are pretty much the same.

Yeah we all know  that they are the same but there must be some perceived differences. To me FG always came across as a bit snobby and intellectual whereas FF are more like cowboys for the common man.

It's like I support man utd, you support liverpool. Its handed down from the civil war. All around there are FF families and FG families. It's no more complicated than that.

I think it is a wee bit more complicated than that.... as there is an obivious difference in the perceptions of the two and definitely a difference in who their core support is. So yes FF & FG were born out of the civil war but who fell on what side of the line and why really gets to the route of the divide

You asked, I am telling you it is no more complicated than that. I estimate around 30% will vote along family lines and  they have no idea where those family decisions came from. That 30% drops every year as the newest generations are starting to think for themselves. There is no major policy differences between FF and FG, that is just a fact.

[five points]

You asked, I am telling you it is no more complicated than that. I estimate around 30% will vote along family lines and  they have no idea where those family decisions came from. That 30% drops every year as the newest generations are starting to think for themselves. There is no major policy differences between FF and FG, that is just a fact.

The 1997 election was probably the last one when a large number of people voted along family lines. FG were decimated in 2002 and FF eventually in 2011.

The idea that younger voters "think for themselves" is highly debatable.  People tend these days to vote by instinct.

And there are major differences between FF and FG. For example, FF would never have let a housing crisis develop without having the builders build houses to fix it. When FF does this in government, the FG opposition will lacerate them for daring to solve their mess. All depressingly predictable.

[Lar Naparka]

The short version is, FF people mostly have their roots in Gaelic Ireland. FG supporters mostly trace their roots to the Norman invasion.

Typical McWilliams, finding an old wisdom that was on the go 40 years ago (it was always said to be the difference between Charlie Haughey and Garret Fitzgerald) and dressing it up as his own.

Tbf, Haughey was also a corrupt politician who created the brown envelope culture that endured in FF for 30 odd years. The history of corruption in FF is the reason I won't be voting for them although MM doesn't seem to have been involved in it himself

MM wasn't involved? Really?

It's amazing how the media have let this story slide away over the years without it properly being addressed.

Amazing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-talk-about-money-miche%C3%A1l-1.560262

Wasn't aware of that, like you say it doesn't get much media attention. I guess anyone who was in FF during that period was probably in on it to a greater or lesser extent

When is the period where FF weren't bent?

Not sure tbh but the Charlie to Bertie era was particularly bad

You need to go back a bit but John Bruton used to have a portrait of the three statesmen/politicians he admired most hanging in his Taoiseach's office. One was Michael Collins, another was W.T. Cosgrave and the third was Sean Lemass.
Being FG himself. you could expect the first two but a former FF Taoiseach?
Bruton reckoned Lemass was the founder of modern Ireland, who put the good of the country above party politics and his word was his deed, as the old saying puts it.
I'd imagine Jack Lynch was honest;incompetent maybe and unable to keep Haughey, Boland  % Co. under control but personally straightforward.
After that, Haughey, Reynolds, Ahern belong in a rogues' gallery.
Mick  Martin? Personally okay but suspicious of a few others in the party. FG? Don't believe the bull poo about them  always dedicated to the public good and always ready to do their duty and step in to clean up the mess left by FF.
Fact is, everytime they took over, they got effed out again at the very next election until Enda barely managed to get re-elected in 2016.
Obviously, the electorate was never too happy with their attempts to serve the public good!!

[five points]

I'd imagine Jack Lynch was honest;incompetent maybe and unable to keep Haughey, Boland  % Co. under control but personally straightforward.
After that, Haughey, Reynolds, Ahern belong in a rogues' gallery.

Maybe I've a bad memory but I can't recall even a hint that Albert Reynolds was ever corrupt or took money from anyone?

[Lar Naparka]

My memory is a bit hazy but I can think of of a few that made the news. Do you remember the contraversy over the shipment of Irish beef to Iraq? Larry Goodman got dept of trade cover where no insurance company would take the risk. Albert was accused if insisting that Goodman got the go ahead in spite if the dept's reservations. Then Harry Wheeler (?) the AG, and a pal of Albert was appointed a High Court judge but was less qualified than other car sites. Harry took the job, heard one case and then resigned. Then there was the scandal over Arab businessmen getting Irish passports after they invested in Albert's pet food company. I can think of a few more serious ones but they were passed on to me by some of Bertie's henchmen so I don't think it fair to say they were true.*


(But they are. )

[Lar Naparka]

Car sites! Damn the spell checker..I mean candidates.

[Angelo]

The short version is, FF people mostly have their roots in Gaelic Ireland. FG supporters mostly trace their roots to the Norman invasion.

Typical McWilliams, finding an old wisdom that was on the go 40 years ago (it was always said to be the difference between Charlie Haughey and Garret Fitzgerald) and dressing it up as his own.

Tbf, Haughey was also a corrupt politician who created the brown envelope culture that endured in FF for 30 odd years. The history of corruption in FF is the reason I won't be voting for them although MM doesn't seem to have been involved in it himself

MM wasn't involved? Really?

It's amazing how the media have let this story slide away over the years without it properly being addressed.

Amazing.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/we-need-to-talk-about-money-miche%C3%A1l-1.560262

Wasn't aware of that, like you say it doesn't get much media attention. I guess anyone who was in FF during that period was probably in on it to a greater or lesser extent

When is the period where FF weren't bent?

Not sure tbh but the Charlie to Bertie era was particularly bad

You need to go back a bit but John Bruton used to have a portrait of the three statesmen/politicians he admired most hanging in his Taoiseach's office. One was Michael Collins, another was W.T. Cosgrave and the third was Sean Lemass.
Being FG himself. you could expect the first two but a former FF Taoiseach?
Bruton reckoned Lemass was the founder of modern Ireland, who put the good of the country above party politics and his word was his deed, as the old saying puts it.
I'd imagine Jack Lynch was honest;incompetent maybe and unable to keep Haughey, Boland  % Co. under control but personally straightforward.
After that, Haughey, Reynolds, Ahern belong in a rogues' gallery.
Mick  Martin? Personally okay but suspicious of a few others in the party. FG? Don't believe the bull poo about them  always dedicated to the public good and always ready to do their duty and step in to clean up the mess left by FF.
Fact is, everytime they took over, they got effed out again at the very next election until Enda barely managed to get re-elected in 2016.
Obviously, the electorate was never too happy with their attempts to serve the public good!!

Odd that Lord Bruton admired Collins and Lemass as both were terrorists by his logic and he hated militant resistance.

[Rossfan]

Election postponed in Tipperary as one of the candidates has died.
The whole nomination process has to be gone through again with voting taking place near the end of February.

[Eamonnca1]

You need to go back a bit but John Bruton used to have a portrait of the three statesmen/politicians he admired most hanging in his Taoiseach's office. One was Michael Collins, another was W.T. Cosgrave and the third was Sean Lemass.
Being FG himself. you could expect the first two but a former FF Taoiseach?
Bruton reckoned Lemass was the founder of modern Ireland, who put the good of the country above party politics and his word was his deed, as the old saying puts it.
I'd imagine Jack Lynch was honest;incompetent maybe and unable to keep Haughey, Boland  % Co. under control but personally straightforward.
After that, Haughey, Reynolds, Ahern belong in a rogues' gallery.
Mick  Martin? Personally okay but suspicious of a few others in the party. FG? Don't believe the bull poo about them  always dedicated to the public good and always ready to do their duty and step in to clean up the mess left by FF.
Fact is, everytime they took over, they got effed out again at the very next election until Enda barely managed to get re-elected in 2016.
Obviously, the electorate was never too happy with their attempts to serve the public good!!

Reynolds? I thought of him as a bit of an anomaly in FF. He was an outsider, coming from the world of business rather than politics. He purged the Haugheyites from the cabinet as soon as he got in. An underrated Taoiseach IMHO. It was a slip-up that took his government down. I'm not sure if I'd count him as one of the rogues.

[Rossfan]

He was a Ros native who brought peace to Ireland.