26 County General Election 2020

Started by Snapchap, January 09, 2020, 06:52:51 PM

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What will be makeup of the next government?

FF/SD/Lab/Green
FG/SD/Lab/Green
FG/FF
FF/Green
FG/Independents
FG/Independents
FG/Green
FF/SF
FF/Green/Independents
FF Minority
FG Minority
FG/SF
FF/Lab/Green
FF/Lab
FF/Lab/Green/Independents

trileacman

I think it's a fallacy that FG have destroyed the state. If you look at the two biggest issues it's housing and health both of which are direct hangovers from the FF administration of the 00's. FF precipitated a property bubble and subsequent economic collapse, they also doled out unsustainable contracts to the public sector and in pensions which have saddled the state with a public expenditure bill that saps necessary investment in capital projects.

Bar the children's hospital and broadband plan I can't think of many more complete balls-up they've directly caused. I'll give them a bit of a pass on cervical check as 1) it was a yank lab that was missing most of the samples and 2) the running of cervical check was really up to the HSE and it was an screening program put in place before their time in office.

It's ironic FF are sticking the boot into FG for not cleaning up the messes caused by FF and by doing so are likely to return to power and f**k up more stuff for FG to clean up the next time they're in office.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

armaghniac

Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2020, 11:43:05 PM
I think it's a fallacy that FG have destroyed the state. If you look at the two biggest issues it's housing and health both of which are direct hangovers from the FF administration of the 00's. FF precipitated a property bubble and subsequent economic collapse, they also doled out unsustainable contracts to the public sector and in pensions which have saddled the state with a public expenditure bill that saps necessary investment in capital projects.

All too easy to blame FF, it is always someone else's fault. FF did precipitate a boom, egged on by the other parties, and this  collapsed. During the boom, they increased expenditure, but things like dole and non-contributory pensions increased more than public pay. Where FF caused harm was in not clearly linking the pay to that required for the job, so clerks got generous increases and specialists even then fell behind the private sector. The pay was reduced, FG did not chose to restore it based on the job market but rather on political gameplaying, so we now do not have enough doctors and teachers because it was not restored when the rest of the economy and rents etc are much higher than 12 years ago.  FG did even remotely attempt a public pay policy, other than what seemed expedient.

QuoteBar the children's hospital and broadband plan I can't think of many more complete balls-up they've directly caused. I'll give them a bit of a pass on cervical check as 1) it was a yank lab that was missing most of the samples and 2) the running of cervical check was really up to the HSE and it was an screening program put in place before their time in office.

I wouldn't blame them for the cervical thing especially, but the other two were needless. But apart from that they sold property to vulture funds who put people out and so on the housing list, when the government could just have turned the property into a council house in the first place. They singularly failed to plan for anything, only acting when the crisis arose. So they wait until trains are a health and safety problem and then order some carriages, which take 2 years to arrive. You have patients staying hospital beds because the doctors can't get them a MRI scan.

QuoteIt's ironic FF are sticking the boot into FG for not cleaning up the messes caused by FF and by doing so are likely to return to power and f**k up more stuff for FG to clean up the next time they're in office.

FF fell victim to hubris, now FG has, all you can do is swap them to remind them that they have  to actually do their job.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

FF followed the 'if I have money I'll spend it' philosophy of McCreevy and used boom receipts to pay for general Govt spending. That model collapsed in 2008 and FF looked really stupid plus the losses inflicted on the public via the cuts necessary to get things back to a state of equilibrium were not forgiven.

FG are surfing the waves of another boom that will also collapse. If they are in Government when it happens they will be fucked.
We need a new economic system.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

trailer

Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2020, 05:55:29 AM
FF followed the 'if I have money I'll spend it' philosophy of McCreevy and used boom receipts to pay for general Govt spending. That model collapsed in 2008 and FF looked really stupid plus the losses inflicted on the public via the cuts necessary to get things back to a state of equilibrium were not forgiven.

FG are surfing the waves of another boom that will also collapse. If they are in Government when it happens they will be fucked.
We need a new economic system.

Quite possibly. Or just personal responsibility and accountability.

Baile Brigín 2

Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2020, 11:43:05 PM
I think it's a fallacy that FG have destroyed the state. If you look at the two biggest issues it's housing and health both of which are direct hangovers from the FF administration of the 00's. FF precipitated a property bubble and subsequent economic collapse, they also doled out unsustainable contracts to the public sector and in pensions which have saddled the state with a public expenditure bill that saps necessary investment in capital projects.

Bar the children's hospital and broadband plan I can't think of many more complete balls-up they've directly caused. I'll give them a bit of a pass on cervical check as 1) it was a yank lab that was missing most of the samples and 2) the running of cervical check was really up to the HSE and it was an screening program put in place before their time in office.

It's ironic FF are sticking the boot into FG for not cleaning up the messes caused by FF and by doing so are likely to return to power and f**k up more stuff for FG to clean up the next time they're in office.

You missed quite a few bars. Irish Water, Garda corruption, running down the military, the retirement age ballsup, swing gate, the RIC debacle, rural broadband, vote gate and so on.

You cant say pension liabilities restrict capital spending when they are building the 6th most expensive building ever, and by a significant distance the worlds most expensive public building.

Yes, FF handed them a bag of shite, but they spilled it everywhere.

seafoid

Quote from: trailer on January 29, 2020, 07:23:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2020, 05:55:29 AM
FF followed the 'if I have money I'll spend it' philosophy of McCreevy and used boom receipts to pay for general Govt spending. That model collapsed in 2008 and FF looked really stupid plus the losses inflicted on the public via the cuts necessary to get things back to a state of equilibrium were not forgiven.

FG are surfing the waves of another boom that will also collapse. If they are in Government when it happens they will be fucked.
We need a new economic system.

Quite possibly. Or just personal responsibility and accountability.

Personal responsibility
Accountability
Budgeting
Getting up early
Mowing the lawn
Being romantic
2 hands on the hurl
Checking the fuel gauge

These are all a great bunch of lads but they won't fix the country when the economic system is dying
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

five points

Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2020, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 29, 2020, 07:23:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2020, 05:55:29 AM
FF followed the 'if I have money I'll spend it' philosophy of McCreevy and used boom receipts to pay for general Govt spending. That model collapsed in 2008 and FF looked really stupid plus the losses inflicted on the public via the cuts necessary to get things back to a state of equilibrium were not forgiven.

FG are surfing the waves of another boom that will also collapse. If they are in Government when it happens they will be fucked.
We need a new economic system.

Quite possibly. Or just personal responsibility and accountability.

Personal responsibility
Accountability
Budgeting
Getting up early
Mowing the lawn
Being romantic
2 hands on the hurl
Checking the fuel gauge

These are all a great bunch of lads but they won't fix the country when the economic system is dying

They first 3 did in 1987, and undid a 10-year recession that at the time seemed like a depression.

The economic system isn't dying either.

Hound

Has standards of living of posters from the 26 counties not improved during the time FG has been in power? Mine certainly has. I think Ireland is a great place to live and offers great opportunities.

My kids are in a Deis school, but they work hard and the teachers work hard to help them. They have a great opportunity to go to third level and ultimately give themselves the best chance to have good careers. It's up to them as to what they can achieve, as it should be.

Health system is the biggest worry, but FG are committed to Slaintecare and that looks to me to be the best alternative.

Putting our economic strategy in the hands of SF could be catastrophic. The economy is being well managed. We need to get more growth outside of Dublin, and that is happening to a degree and there are thriving towns up and down the country. But more to do to widen the spread.

My biggest problem with my vote is I don't care for either of the FG candidates in my constituency. But I am confident Varadker and Coveney are the best two people around to lead our country.

seafoid

Quote from: five points on January 29, 2020, 11:34:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2020, 11:32:21 AM
Quote from: trailer on January 29, 2020, 07:23:56 AM
Quote from: seafoid on January 29, 2020, 05:55:29 AM
FF followed the 'if I have money I'll spend it' philosophy of McCreevy and used boom receipts to pay for general Govt spending. That model collapsed in 2008 and FF looked really stupid plus the losses inflicted on the public via the cuts necessary to get things back to a state of equilibrium were not forgiven.

FG are surfing the waves of another boom that will also collapse. If they are in Government when it happens they will be fucked.
We need a new economic system.

Quite possibly. Or just personal responsibility and accountability.

Personal responsibility
Accountability
Budgeting
Getting up early
Mowing the lawn
Being romantic
2 hands on the hurl
Checking the fuel gauge

These are all a great bunch of lads but they won't fix the country when the economic system is dying

They first 3 did in 1987, and undid a 10-year recession that at the time seemed like a depression.

The economic system isn't dying either.

The gold price and interest rates say that it is
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Rossfan

Leo and Simon look the part when compared to Mícheál Martin and whoever FF's Deputy Leader might be.
The Sláintecare programme needs lots of €€€€s to implement and I havent seen any serious proposal as to where this will come from (apart from the fairytale manifestos issued over the last week or so).
Regional development urgently required in the BMW and again I'm not hearing any serious proposals for this.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Lar Naparka

Quote from: trileacman on January 28, 2020, 11:43:05 PM
I think it's a fallacy that FG have destroyed the state. If you look at the two biggest issues it's housing and health both of which are direct hangovers from the FF administration of the 00's. FF precipitated a property bubble and subsequent economic collapse, they also doled out unsustainable contracts to the public sector and in pensions which have saddled the state with a public expenditure bill that saps necessary investment in capital projects.

Bar the children's hospital and broadband plan I can't think of many more complete balls-up they've directly caused. I'll give them a bit of a pass on cervical check as 1) it was a yank lab that was missing most of the samples and 2) the running of cervical check was really up to the HSE and it was an screening program put in place before their time in office.

It's ironic FF are sticking the boot into FG for not cleaning up the messes caused by FF and by doing so are likely to return to power and f**k up more stuff for FG to clean up the next time they're in office.
I could well go along with what you are saying but, as always, the devil is in the detail. All elections between '97 and 2011 were characterised by lavish promises from all parties as each tried to outdo the others in trying to get their snouts into the gravy trough and, in this regard, FG stood man to man with FF.
FG's manifesto was just as profligate as FF's in 2007 and as one prominent FG character confided to me, he often woke up sweating when he was dreaming about what might have happened if his side had actually won that one.
Good luck and a few thousand votes saved FG from Armageddon.
As I look at the manifestos of the big two, I can see history repeating itself.
I see hope for the future as the electorate, by and large, appears to be sick of the auction politicking of the main parties but I am worried because there appears to be no viable alternative.
And while I'm at it, another hoary old lie needs to be put to highlighted. FG would love to be regarded as the guardians of the public good, always ready to answer the call of duty and prepared to step in and clean up the mess caused by the profligacy of successive FF administrations.
If that was indeed the case, the Irish electorate must have always been a truly ungrateful shower of hoors because every FG/Lab coalition got tossed out first chance they got with the exception of 2016  where Enda became the first Blue Shirt to serve two successive terms as Taoiseach.
I can't see Leo becoming the second one but I can't help feeling that Coveney is more of a statesman than  anyone else in FG, FF or indeed any other party.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Baile Brigín 2

He is tight that FF simply aren't credible and want us to forget history. But the notion that FG made no mistakes is mindnumbingly stupid

weareros

Quote from: Baile Brigín 2 on January 29, 2020, 03:28:14 PM
He is tight that FF simply aren't credible and want us to forget history. But the notion that FG made no mistakes is mindnumbingly stupid

Plenty of mistakes although some like water charges were unpopular choices. We do need in my opinion to pay for water, and many do down the country (farmers and those in rural water schemes). But the free stuff brigade are loud. Yes broadband and children's hospital are astronomical cost but will be essential to our future. There's no inexpensive way to do rural broadband and those talking about 5G don't realise how much that will cost and requires transmitters every 500 feet. Good luck with that. They left the economy in far better shape than they found it and it's ironic that Boris got a landslide for his poor Brexit deal that sliced off North and Leo and Coveney who achieved what is essentially the closest we've ever come to an all-island economy will be sent packing to the cheers of the British right and the Irish left (and look underneath and you won't see much difference between that lot).


five points

Quote from: weareros on January 29, 2020, 04:04:46 PM
Yes broadband and children's hospital are astronomical cost but will be essential to our future.

Both are a waste of money. The broadband will be to internet connectivity what CIE is to public transport. The children's hospital will deliver a dozen or two extra beds at astronomical cost.