Cillian O'Connor wins Golden Boot Race

[brokencrossbar1]

I think Angelo's point is that O Connor is not a 'clutch' player. A bit of a flat track bully who will run up big scores in loads of games but when the shite really hits the fan can go missing. Frees do need scored and he does that consistently well but so did my old mate Oisin McConville for instance. Oisin on the other hand I would have put my mortgage on scoring a winner out of nothing in the dying embers of a game with 3 men hanging off him, Canavan the same, Kilkenny the same, I'm not so sure O Connor would. I think he is an excellent player but just a step below the top.

[Angelo]

I think Angelo's point is that O Connor is not a 'clutch' player. A bit of a flat track bully who will run up big scores in loads of games but when the shite really hits the fan can go missing. Frees do need scored and he does that consistently well but so did my old mate Oisin McConville for instance. Oisin on the other hand I would have put my mortgage on scoring a winner out of nothing in the dying embers of a game with 3 men hanging off him, Canavan the same, Kilkenny the same, I'm not so sure O Connor would. I think he is an excellent player but just a step below the top.

+1

I'm not saying COC is terrible or anything of the sort but he's a bracket below top level. He scores heavy when his team are destroying the opposition. He's a finisher but he can't do it by himself like the elite forwards are able to.

[Rossfan]

How did that Canavan last so long on Tyrone teams?
Same club as the manager?

Better out in a 

[Ethan Tremblay]

Do you's think in the current state of the game players like McConville and Canavan would have been awarded the freedom to do what they done so good?

If Canavan was on the current Tyrone panel (or any Tyrone panel tbh), he undoubtedly would be the marquee forward/danger man.   Do you think the current Dublin team would allow him to operate as he did? Do you think the Donegal way would allow a ball floated into the space in front of Canavan to win, beat one man and score?

I have fond memories of the late 90's and early 00's of both these players being comfortable winning ball, taking on and beating their men and proceeding to score great points, but it wouldn't happen as freely now as it did then. 

[larryin89]

Do you's think in the current state of the game players like McConville and Canavan would have been awarded the freedom to do what they done so good?

If Canavan was on the current Tyrone panel (or any Tyrone panel tbh), he undoubtedly would be the marquee forward/danger man.   Do you think the current Dublin team would allow him to operate as he did? Do you think the Donegal way would allow a ball floated into the space in front of Canavan to win, beat one man and score?

I have fond memories of the late 90's and early 00's of both these players being comfortable winning ball, taking on and beating their men and proceeding to score great points, but it wouldn't happen as freely now as it did then.

100% best post on this thread

[Hound]

I think the point is that O Connor is not a 'clutch' player. A bit of a flat track bully who will run up big scores in loads of games but when the shite really hits the fan can go missing. Frees do need scored and he does that consistently well but so did my old mate Oisin McConville for instance. Oisin on the other hand I would have put my mortgage on scoring a winner out of nothing in the dying embers of a game with 3 men hanging off him, Canavan the same, Kilkenny the same, I'm not so sure O Connor would. I think he is an excellent player but just a step below the top.

I have a recollection of O'Connor scoring an equalising point in exactly that manner late on v the Dubs. Demanded the ball. Lads hanging off him. Banged it over from distance.

His influenced definitely waned in the second half on Saturday, after he had a really good first half. Hard to know exactly from TV if his runs changed or Dublin's marking changed, but I would imagine the biggest reason was that Mayo dominated midfield in the first half and Dublin the second.

[Angelo]

I think the point is that O Connor is not a 'clutch' player. A bit of a flat track bully who will run up big scores in loads of games but when the shite really hits the fan can go missing. Frees do need scored and he does that consistently well but so did my old mate Oisin McConville for instance. Oisin on the other hand I would have put my mortgage on scoring a winner out of nothing in the dying embers of a game with 3 men hanging off him, Canavan the same, Kilkenny the same, I'm not so sure O Connor would. I think he is an excellent player but just a step below the top.

I have a recollection of O'Connor scoring an equalising point in exactly that manner late on v the Dubs. Demanded the ball. Lads hanging off him. Banged it over from distance.

Is this the one you refer to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_FOigo-ggE

No lads hanging off him there, a very good finish though.

[brokencrossbar1]

Do you's think in the current state of the game players like McConville and Canavan would have been awarded the freedom to do what they done so good?

If Canavan was on the current Tyrone panel (or any Tyrone panel tbh), he undoubtedly would be the marquee forward/danger man.   Do you think the current Dublin team would allow him to operate as he did? Do you think the Donegal way would allow a ball floated into the space in front of Canavan to win, beat one man and score?

I have fond memories of the late 90's and early 00's of both these players being comfortable winning ball, taking on and beating their men and proceeding to score great points, but it wouldn't happen as freely now as it did then.

With all due respect having played during that period and particularly the mid 90's the protection that you received from refs was minimal and the physical nature of the hits were bordering on assault. To say these men comfortably won the ball is wrong. They had to battle and scrap for everything.

[Maroon Manc]

Do you's think in the current state of the game players like McConville and Canavan would have been awarded the freedom to do what they done so good?

If Canavan was on the current Tyrone panel (or any Tyrone panel tbh), he undoubtedly would be the marquee forward/danger man.   Do you think the current Dublin team would allow him to operate as he did? Do you think the Donegal way would allow a ball floated into the space in front of Canavan to win, beat one man and score?

I have fond memories of the late 90's and early 00's of both these players being comfortable winning ball, taking on and beating their men and proceeding to score great points, but it wouldn't happen as freely now as it did then.

When were the likes of Canavan or McConville ever awarded freedom? Every good forward in history has come in for special attention.

I can remember the abuse Michael Donnellan got against Kerry in 2000, think he was fouled 7 times in the first half alone.

[larryin89]

Freedom as in space , 100% they were. Let's take the goal v Kerry,  mulligan catches clean, kerry defender one on one and a yard behind to boot , canavan runs in kerry defence way off him collects the ball of mulligan and he scores a goal.  Them plays dont happen in all Ireland finals nowadays,  the pressure is applied ten fold.

[Ethan Tremblay]

Do you's think in the current state of the game players like McConville and Canavan would have been awarded the freedom to do what they done so good?

If Canavan was on the current Tyrone panel (or any Tyrone panel tbh), he undoubtedly would be the marquee forward/danger man.   Do you think the current Dublin team would allow him to operate as he did? Do you think the Donegal way would allow a ball floated into the space in front of Canavan to win, beat one man and score?

I have fond memories of the late 90's and early 00's of both these players being comfortable winning ball, taking on and beating their men and proceeding to score great points, but it wouldn't happen as freely now as it did then.

With all due respect having played during that period and particularly the mid 90's the protection that you received from refs was minimal and the physical nature of the hits were bordering on assault. To say these men comfortably won the ball is wrong. They had to battle and scrap for everything.

Yea that's fair enough point, comfortable may have been the wrong word.  When I said freedom, I meant "space to operate", again badly communicated by me.   

The point I was trying to convey was that the modern intercounty game doesn't allow the forward line to flourish as it once did.  Space in front of the full forward line is a rare sight these days and if a player beats his man now, he is usually bottled up, I hope that point is coming across a bit more clearly. 

If playing today, with the ball in their hands, McConville and Canavan would no doubt create magic, win frees, take score when they were presented to them, but teams just wouldn't allow it to happen. 

Would it be a fair point to say their score from play stats would be diminished in todays game?

[JoG2]

I think the point is that O Connor is not a 'clutch' player. A bit of a flat track bully who will run up big scores in loads of games but when the shite really hits the fan can go missing. Frees do need scored and he does that consistently well but so did my old mate Oisin McConville for instance. Oisin on the other hand I would have put my mortgage on scoring a winner out of nothing in the dying embers of a game with 3 men hanging off him, Canavan the same, Kilkenny the same, I'm not so sure O Connor would. I think he is an excellent player but just a step below the top.

I have a recollection of O'Connor scoring an equalising point in exactly that manner late on v the Dubs. Demanded the ball. Lads hanging off him. Banged it over from distance.

His influenced definitely waned in the second half on Saturday, after he had a really good first half. Hard to know exactly from TV if his runs changed or Dublin's marking changed, but I would imagine the biggest reason was that Mayo dominated midfield in the first half and Dublin the second.

The 2 marks and that catch and hoit from the acute angle in the 1st half from a good supply of ball going in. COC was brilliant in the first half. The supply in the 2nd half pretty much dried up as you say, Fenton came to the fore and Dublin had the middle sector seen up. Christ but Fenton is frustratingly brilliant. You just knew after the 1st half he'd be out all guns blazing in the 2nd.
So we're all now in agreement, O'Connor is 'excellent' and Peter 'The Great' was in fact Peter 'The Average'

[Angelo]

Freedom as in space , 100% they were. Let's take the goal v Kerry,  mulligan catches clean, kerry defender one on one and a yard behind to boot , canavan runs in kerry defence way off him collects the ball of mulligan and he scores a goal.  Them plays dont happen in all Ireland finals nowadays,  the pressure is applied ten fold.

With his weaker foot. He's gone before O'Sullivan realises it.

The his point from out on the sideline in the second half shortly after being reintroduced.

Magic.

[Maroon Manc]

Freedom as in space , 100% they were. Let's take the goal v Kerry,  mulligan catches clean, kerry defender one on one and a yard behind to boot , canavan runs in kerry defence way off him collects the ball of mulligan and he scores a goal.  Them plays dont happen in all Ireland finals nowadays,  the pressure is applied ten fold.

You mean like Dublins 2nd goal the the other night?

[Angelo]

Freedom as in space , 100% they were. Let's take the goal v Kerry,  mulligan catches clean, kerry defender one on one and a yard behind to boot , canavan runs in kerry defence way off him collects the ball of mulligan and he scores a goal.  Them plays dont happen in all Ireland finals nowadays,  the pressure is applied ten fold.

Just to clear this one up.

Here is a still of the Canavan goal against Kerry in 05. He is actually being picked up by Seamus Moynihan (3x all star defender) and as you can see Moynihan has him goalside and within reach. This is just after Jordan has kicked the ball in. Canavan is then off like a rocket, burns Moynihan, he knows where he needs to be, takes the ball off Mulligan and places a perfect finish into the bottom corner off his weaker foot.

O'Callaghan and Rock were both free to palm/punch their goals in. Mayo got caught out on the overload or didn't track their men.

So you're talking nonsense I'm afraid.