China Coronavirus

Started by lurganblue, January 23, 2020, 09:52:32 AM

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Evil Genius

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

joemamas

#14521
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 12, 2021, 03:49:15 PM
Quote from: Hound on April 12, 2021, 03:31:53 PM
Quote from: trailer on April 12, 2021, 02:43:22 PM
Open question to those against vaccine passports for pubs etc, are you against it because you don't want to get the vaccine or is it because it's the state intervening?
Very few people (though not none) who take the vaccine will be against the vaccine passport, though there will be people who say the only reason they are against vaccine passports is state intervention.

Seems very odd that the vaccine doesn't give an exemption from quarantining. I'm all for travel quarantining, and I think it should be worldwide, but I've a mate in the US in his 40s who has just got his second vaccine dose and wants to come home in June and see his folks (who will be getting their second shot in the next week or so). Under the rules at the moment he'd have to quarantine for 2 weeks on arrival - that makes no sense to me!
I think these sort of things will be sorted in the long run. It makes no sense as you say, but they've been 1 step behind in all things Covid if you ask me. And it nearly takes something like this to be raised for it to be addressed rather than some strategic thinking and planning. Once international travel comes to the fore again I'd imagine a much more structured process would be put in place and issues like this will be ironed out.

it is baffling to say the least.
I live in the US, avoided Covid thankfully.
Got vaccinated yesterday (JNJ one shot),was looking forward to going back to see my elderly vaccinated mother.
I could have gone (unvaccinated) today thru Thursday and not have to quarentine in a hotel for 12 days.
however, if I go after Thursday and even though I have been vaccinated, I have to quarantine.
Seriously, who made this up.
The Government or the Civil servants who are making these decisions should have to explain their rational.
By their actions, have they not wiped out another tourist season and all the spending, employment that is associated with it.
America will have 60 +% of their entire population vaccinated by the end of May. That probably equates to 75% over the age of 11 as there are almost 50MM in the US 11 and under.
but yet pretty much zero % of them will be traveling to Ireland this year.
just pure madness.
Are they doing the same to vaccinated people coming from the UK.

Evil Genius

Quote from: joemamas on April 13, 2021, 12:31:07 AM
it is baffling to say the least.
I live in the US, avoided Covid thankfully.
Got vaccinated yesterday (JNJ one shot),was looking forward to going back to see my elderly vaccinated mother.
I could have gone (unvaccinated) today thru Thursday and not have to quarentine in a hotel for 12 days.
however, if I go after Thursday and even though I have been vaccinated, I have to quarantine.
Seriously, who made this up.
Not dismissing your bafflement in the least - all seems very strange to me - but I would point out that it still wouldn't have made sense to let someone vaccinated on Sunday to travel in the following few days, since it can take up to 3 weeks for vaccines to reach their maximum effectiveness.

But yeah, it all seems very nonsensical.
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

armaghniac

Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Having had your Astrazeneca take orders from those countries for vaccines and then not fulfill them, this is not surprising.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Evil Genius

Quote from: armaghniac on April 13, 2021, 01:10:13 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Having had your Astrazeneca take orders from those countries for vaccines and then not fulfill them, this is not surprising.
Not so surprising as having European politicians seek to deflect the blame from their own shortcomings by trying to point the finger at others.

In this case, blaming a company for production problems, when they (European countries) already had literally millions of doses of that company's vaccine sitting unused in fridges all around the continent.

While the UK signed the order 3 months before the EU and paid the asking price, rather than trying to quibble, with a company in which the UK had already invested millions in their vaccine programme, both at home and on the continent, and whose own Health Regulator had authorised the vaccine a month or more before their European counterparts.

But heyho, if in doubt: "Blame Da Brits!"

Meanwhile, I was listening to a very interesting point which a Dutch scientist made the other day. France is a major leader in the world of medicine and pharmacology etc (the land of Pasteur, after all).

But while other comparable countries like UK, Germany, USA, China and even Russia have all produced vaccines, France is conspicuously absent from the list by its own failure to come up with one.

Why? Apparently because they decided to go it alone, declining to share their programme with any non-French companies (research, production, testing etc). Yet one of the success stories of this vaccine production is the unparalleled international co-operation across national boundaries, including even by (otherwise) competing companies. And this co-operation is essential with the Pfizer/Biontec vaccine, for example, depending on 230 separate components*, most of which had to be imported into Germany.

Yet France decided they could go it alone - another to be added to the list of f**k-ups by that dipstick Macron.


* - Incidentally, that explains why the EU Commission decided to pick on AZ rather than the UK government: they knew that if they blocked EU-made vaccines coming to the UK, we in turn could "turn off the tap" for essential British-made components going to them.
"If you come in here again, you'd better bring guns"
"We don't need guns"
"Yes you fuckin' do"

Blowitupref

#14525
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander’s are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it’s all up to everyone of us to do what’s right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn’t say that. We shouldn’t be in this position. If they’d handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn’t even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it’s an effective vaccine.
Israel already shows how effective vaccines are.

All countries need a good percentage of its population vaccinated before they get back to the 2019 normality and it would be a very different story for NZ/Aus if they were located in Europe.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Taylor

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.

Benny - if they had handled it like NZ/Aus then you would still be taking the vaccine - just like NZ/Aus?

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:34:06 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 12:43:28 PM
The vaccines are experimental.

Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 01:40:52 PM
You are saying you want to isolate people from society, who won't take an experimental vaccine,
What do you mean by "experimental"?

The vaccine producers face no liability to adverse reactions due to the (sped up) nature of their trials in the production. So to me, whilst they have been passed....I'm sure you'll agree, without liability to the producers....there is a certain, experimental tone to it which I can see why people would be wary of taking the vaccine of (for something, they'll probably be fine for in nature anyway).

I'm not exposing anti vaxx propaganda or nonsense. I'm not saying they are unsafe. I'm merely putting reasons out there why some people may be hesitant to take the vaccine as is their right in the face of calls from people here to have them banned from daily life as they may be wary of taking something, which to be honest, we are still gathering data on (but, it looks good).

BennyCake

Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.

GetOverTheBar

Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:44:13 PM
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on April 12, 2021, 08:53:34 PM
We have people on this thread basically saying if someone for whatever reason doesn't want the vaccine they should be banned from society and segregated.
What do you mean by "banned from society" and "segregated"?

You may ask that to the people who have put those ideas on this board.

Personally I think it's abhorrent.

Taylor

Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.

Im trying to see your POV here Benny.

You use NZ as an example - they handled it absolutely superbly from start to finish and we can all agree on that.

Yet they are still rolling out the vaccine?

Milltown Row2

Quote from: BennyCake on April 13, 2021, 09:46:10 AM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 13, 2021, 12:05:43 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.
It's like the old story of the American tourist who got lost in Ireland, so was forced to ask a local for directions.

Tourist: "How do I get to Ballygosomewhere?"

Local: "Well if I were you, Sir, I wouldn't be starting from here"

Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
How much feckin time do you need?

The UK had the 1st Wave as bad as anywhere in the world last year, worse than most in fact.

Then it had an even worse 2nd Wave over the winter.

Yet now, when continental Europe and much of the rest of the world is struggling with a serious 3rd Wave after a fairly good 2020, it has yet to take hold in the UK. Indeed to the contrary, the number of UK transmissions, hospitalisations and deaths are dropping by the day.

For example, France reported 8.5k new cases and 385 new deaths for 12 April.

While the UK had 3.5k new cases and 13* deaths.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus//country/france/
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51768274

For which there is one reason, and one reason only, why that should be so: i.e. our vaccination programme is miles ahead of those other places.


* - Since numbers are sometimes under-reported after a weekend, that figure may subsequently be revised upwards, but likely not by many.

Things only opened up yesterday in Britain. And here will be opening up over the next few days/week's. Schools aren't long back, so we're yet to see if these vaccines are really working.

Only 3.5k? Is that all? NZ had 0. That's right, zero.

You are a 1000% right we don't know if the vaccine is the silver bullet.. We are fucked if it's not... Plan b will hopefully be close the borders properly like NZ otherwise we face the continual lockdowns.

Oh I don't want the government changing their goal posts as much as the next guy, we can't get zero covid, that's impossible. lower hospital admissions and deaths related to covid should be the target to allow us up and running.
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

imtommygunn

We need to get shit up and running here. England are way behind in vaccines. I mean responsibly but they are incredibly slow to react plus they give very short notice and then they cut funding very quickly as well.

GetOverTheBar

Due a review here this week? By the looks of certain businesses etc posts on social media, quite a bit looks to be getting a heads up for opening.

Good news.

BennyCake

Quote from: Blowitupref on April 13, 2021, 03:27:40 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 11:10:37 PM
Quote from: Evil Genius on April 12, 2021, 10:41:05 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on April 12, 2021, 05:47:29 PM
Aye, and what did governments do to help me, you and the rest of society? F**ked about, letting thousands in and out early days, and the virus out of control. Thousands of needless deaths, everyone of them, the blame lies at politicians doors.

There should be no need for any of us to take this vaccine because the virus should, have been kept out. NZ and Australia have it under control, as well as lots of other island nations. New Zealander's are able to live their lives because their leaders did the right things.  But because the useless w**kers on this island f**ked about, now it's all up to everyone of us to do what's right for society? You can f**k right off.
So just because the politicians fucked up their response to the virus taking hold in 2020 (which they did), we should punish them for their incompetence by refusing to take an effective vaccine from them in 2021?

Yeah, that'll teach 'em!  ::)

I didn't say that. We shouldn't be in this position. If they'd handled it like NZ/Aus, we wouldn't even need to take any vaccine.

And only time will tell if it's an effective vaccine.
Israel already shows how effective vaccines are.

All countries need a good percentage of its population vaccinated before they get back to the 2019 normality and it would be a very different story for NZ/Aus if they were located in Europe.

Israel? Yes, because none of us doubts what is spewed from thon place.

A good percentage of the population. So that would be what? 85 percent? 90? Let's say that achieved herd immunity or whatever the term is.

Ok let's take that logic. Say Ireland has 6 million people. 5.9 million get vaccinated. 100,000 chose not to/can't get it. Surely the 5.9m protects the 100k? The same with measles, polio jabs etc?