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Messages - Dubhaltach

#1
GAA Discussion / Re: Mayo v Dubs 2 July
July 03, 2023, 09:46:20 PM
This game was basically won and lost in the 5 minutes after half time. It was a tough lesson for some of our lads to take but in reality, simple mistakes are ruthlessly punished at this level and they just cannot happen. It's pointless looking at anything that happened after the 2nd Dublin goal as the game was done at that stage.

Considering we finished the championship at the same stage, in similar circumstances last year, I suppose the year could be summed up as a sort of 'par for the course'. The win in Salthill saved management from it being a very bad year. When you look at the league performances of Dublin and Kerry, it's clear that the league counted for very little in the grander scheme of things so I don't think too much credit can be given towards the division 1 title.

While there was progress in some areas, there's a couple of things that need to be highlighted.

Game Management-Our first competitive match of the year was against Galway in the FBD. Early in the 2nd half we led by 11 points, only to allow Galway score 3 goals before eventually scraping over the line. You might write this off as 'just the fbd' but the problem came up again and again and again throughout the season. The problem was never fully resolved and we paid a heavy price against Cork, the early warning signs were there. Contrast this with the Dubs yesterday, once they scored the 2nd goal they parked the bus and there was no way they were letting Mayo back into it.

Team selection- At the start of the year they selected a player in a key defensive position who just didn't have the physicality for it, the penny finally dropped 2 weeks ago. They stuck with another player in the half forward line for the entire league and 1st round of the Connacht Championship when it was clear to most that his skillset is not yet at the required level. Finally, they went with a 33 year old midfielder in the full forward line. While he played well at stages during the year, it ended in Croke Park the way it always has anytime it's been tried. He's just not a top level inter-county forward and that gets exposed on the biggest stage. I'm not trying to have a go at lads here and I appreciate the effort they put in but if we're to be serious contenders, you have be ruthless when it comes to selection. These 3 selection issues were clear to some of us at the start of the year and unfortunately we were proven right. The 5 lads in the management team are all serious coaches, it baffles me that they couldn't spot these things earlier.

Finally, whatever slim chance we had of landing the big one ended in the Gaelic grounds 2 weeks ago. As others have pointed out here, the eventual champions were always going to come from the 4 group winners.... for numerous reasons. Management clearly underappreciated the importance of that game v Cork. I actually couldn't believe it the night before the game when I heard Cillian was playing for Tubber in a club match. Aidan O Shea also admitting in an interview that he had no idea of the significance of his last minute free further highlights the lax approach taken by management to what was, essentially a do or die match.

Rant over, here's hoping for an improved 2024.

#2
Quote from: Manning18 on May 19, 2023, 06:02:13 PM
Quote from: larryin89 on May 19, 2023, 04:40:10 PM
The rumour was obviously false but hey fire away with that narrative about mayo support ya wanted to get off your Chesteen . Great to have supporters though , great craic , what it's all about some would say but I understand ye are all about the all Ireland . Yer just different gravy altogether to us little old mayo wans .

Strange one to be espousing the Mayo support on the weekend they're supposedly bringing their least amount of fans for many a year to Killarney. The cost of living crises hitting hard up there? There's no soccer/rugby/hurling to distract, so it's a strange one for the self anointed "best fans in Ireland"

You're one sour individual, on here constantly sniping away. I've often been in Croke Park when there's been over 40,000 Mayo supporters present, yet you're willing to let a few clowns on social media paint a picture for you of the entire group....

As for the game itself, the most pleasing aspect was the game management. Kerry came back with with a third quarter push but we never really looked like letting them back into it. We held on to possession when needed which wouldn't always have been a strong point. It's good to be back as contender again anyway.
#3
GAA Discussion / Re: NFL Division 1 2023
February 06, 2023, 09:33:59 PM
While the Eoghan McLaughlin shot was pure madness, I'd be even more pissed off with how Mayo approached Rafferty's kick out on 67 minutes. Mayo were 5 points up, 3 minutes of normal time left and they push up on the kick out as if they were a point behind.

Armagh win the kick out, score from it and the come back basically begins from there.

There's times in games to sit back and there's times in games to push up, surely Mayo have been practicing scenarios like that in training. To not see out the win from that point was criminal at this level.
#4
Cavan by 6
Louth by 4
Roscommon by 5
Kerry by 5
#5
Donegal v Armagh  Donegal
Kerry v Tyrone   Kerry
Mayo v Kildare  Kildare
Monaghan v Dublin  Dublin

Down v Clare  Clare
Meath v Derry  Meath
Offaly v Cork  Cork
Roscommon v Galway Roscommon

Antrim v Westmeath Antrim
Laois v Longford  Laois
Limerick v Fermanagh  Fermanagh
Wicklow v Louth  Louth

Tipperary v London  Tipp
Carlow v Wexford   Wexford
Cavan v Waterford  Cavan
Sligo v Leitrim  Sligo
#6
Tyrone v Mayo - Tyrone
Armagh v Kerry - Armagh
Kildare v Monaghan - Kildare
Dublin v Donegal - Dublin

Cork v Down - Cork
Derry v Galway - Draw
Clare v Meath - Draw
Offaly v Roscommon - Roscommon

Laois v Limerick - Draw
Longford v Wicklow - Longford
Louth v Antrim - Antrim
Westmeath v Fermanagh - Draw

London v Cavan - Cavan
Waterford v Slig - Sligo
Leitrim v Wexford - Leitrim
Tipperary v Carlow - Tipp
#7
Armagh v Kildare-Armagh
Kerry v Mayo-Kerry
Donegal v Monaghan- draw
Tyrone v Dublin-Tyrone

Down v Offaly-Offaly
Galway v Clare-Galway
Meath v Cork-draw
Roscommon v Derry-Derry

Antrim v Longford-Antrim
Fermanagh v Louth-draw
Limerick v Westmeath-Westmeath
Wicklow v Laois-Laois

Sligo v London-Sligo
Carlow v Leitrim-Leitrim
Cavan v Tipperary-Cavan
Wexford v Waterford-Wexford
#8
Donegal v Tyrone-Tyrone
Kildare v Dublin- Kildare
Mayo v Armagh-Armagh
Monaghan v Kerry-Kerry

Offaly v Meath-draw
Cork v Galway-Galway
Down v Roscommon-draw
Clare v Derry-Derry

Wicklow v Limerick-Limerick
Laois v Antrim-Laois
Longford v Fermanagh-draw
Louth v Westmeath-Westmeath

Tipperary v Sligo-Sligo
London v Wexford-London
Cavan v Carlow-Cavan
Waterford v Leitrim-Leitrim
#9
Armagh v Monaghan
Dublin v Mayo
Kerry v Donegal
Tyrone v Kildare

Derry v Cork
Galway v Offaly
Meath v Down
Roscommon v Clare

Antrim v Wicklow
Fermanagh v Laois-draw
Limerick v Louth
Westmeath v Longford

Carlow v Waterford
Leitrim v London
Sligo v Cavan
Wexford v Tipperar
#10
Kerry v Dublin
Armagh v Tyrone - draw
Monaghan v Mayo
Donegal v Kildare

Down v Galway
Cork v Clare
Meath v Roscommon - draw
Offaly v Derry

Antrim v Limerick
Laois v Westmeath
Longford v Louth
Wicklow v Fermanagh-draw

London v Waterford
Sligo v Carlow
Cavan v Wexford
Tipperary v Leitrim
#11


Dublin v Armagh
Kildare v Kerry
Mayo v Donegal -Draw
Tyrone v Monaghan -Draw

Derry v Down
Clare v Offaly
Galway v Meath
Roscommon v Cork

Limerick v Longford -Draw
Fermanagh v Antrim - Draw
Louth v Laois
Westmeath v Wicklow

Carlow v London
Leitrim v Cavan
Waterford v Tipperary
Wexford v Sligo
#12
Quote from: JoG2 on September 17, 2021, 08:03:31 PM
Quote from: Dubhaltach on September 17, 2021, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: Maroon Manc on September 17, 2021, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2021, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: Jayop on September 16, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
Score 2 of them and you'd have been a point up. It's much too simplistic to say that would have won the game (I know that's not exactly what you said). Tyrone could just have easily have reacted and pushed on and scored more. And likewise Tyrone missed some other simple chances, if we had have scored them we'd have won by a mile.

Totally agree. My point was really that Mayo aren't scoring enough in finals to win them. Missing clear cut goal chances saps the confidence of the whole team. 0.15 won't win too many finals but 2.15 would be hard to beat most times. Mckenna showed a level of composure that IMO was beyond any of the Mayo forwards.

Mayo for a team with so many great individual defenders were opened up a lot, Tyrone missed plenty of easy chances. That 2nd goal was coming from the long kickout had been coming since early on and was a very obvious tactic that Horan had done nothing to negate. I listened to a good few podcasts during the build up and plenty from Mayo thought it needed to be a low scoring game for Mayo to win, conceding 2-14 is always going to make it nigh on impossible to win especially when you've got a half forward line and a full forward who barely contribute to the scoreboard. Even with Cillian O'Connor back next year I don't see Mayo winning it with Horan's tactics, its a definition of madness to keep making the same mistakes time and time again.

Hard to argue with any of that.

Horan didn't butcher about 12 points worth in the 3rd quarter alone. As for negating against the long kickout, it'll happen the odd time. Pushing up on the kickouts, percentage wise is probably the wisest thing to do over the course of the game. When pushing up what spare men have you got?

And, as I'm generally interested, what tactics of Horan's does yourself and Maroon not agree with and what should Horan implement? A couple of cooler heads on the pitch, Mayo win and Horan is the bee's knees.

Even if Mayo had have taken more of the scores you refer to, chances are Tyrone would still have won. There is always goals to be got against Mayo in finals and the Tyrone players knew that as well as anyone.

Horan's tactics or 'Horanball' as its called by some in Mayo, involves pushing the entire half backline forward and leaving the full back line totally exposed. There is no plan B. Look at McShane's goal the last day, he was left one on one and the inevitable happened. It was well taken and fair play to him but it's the exact same shite that happened us with Kieran Donaghy in 2014. Lessons are just not learned. I don't want to be too harsh on Horan because he's done an unbelievable amount for Mayo football, I just have no faith that he's going to be the man to get us over the line.
#13
Quote from: Maroon Manc on September 17, 2021, 01:25:51 PM
Quote from: lenny on September 16, 2021, 10:55:44 PM
Quote from: Jayop on September 16, 2021, 10:38:07 PM
Score 2 of them and you'd have been a point up. It's much too simplistic to say that would have won the game (I know that's not exactly what you said). Tyrone could just have easily have reacted and pushed on and scored more. And likewise Tyrone missed some other simple chances, if we had have scored them we'd have won by a mile.

Totally agree. My point was really that Mayo aren't scoring enough in finals to win them. Missing clear cut goal chances saps the confidence of the whole team. 0.15 won't win too many finals but 2.15 would be hard to beat most times. Mckenna showed a level of composure that IMO was beyond any of the Mayo forwards.

Mayo for a team with so many great individual defenders were opened up a lot, Tyrone missed plenty of easy chances. That 2nd goal was coming from the long kickout had been coming since early on and was a very obvious tactic that Horan had done nothing to negate. I listened to a good few podcasts during the build up and plenty from Mayo thought it needed to be a low scoring game for Mayo to win, conceding 2-14 is always going to make it nigh on impossible to win especially when you've got a half forward line and a full forward who barely contribute to the scoreboard. Even with Cillian O'Connor back next year I don't see Mayo winning it with Horan's tactics, its a definition of madness to keep making the same mistakes time and time again.

Hard to argue with any of that.
#14
I don't think Mayo need to go full blanket or anything but all the top teams have at least one extra man back covering space. I thought Frank Burns did a great job like this for Tyrone in the final. The amount of space in front of the Mayo full back line had to be seen to be believed. When I saw the McCurry goal chance in the first half, I'd a feeling we'd see Tyrone goals in the 2nd half.

I agree about the lack of ability in some of our forwards, it's just that even if we scored one of those goal chances, I wouldn't have been confident about closing the game out and not conceding goals at the other end.
#15
Quote from: Maroon Manc on September 15, 2021, 06:49:28 PM
What do the Mayo posters think of Horan?

I think out of the 4 Finals where he's been in charge in 3 of them he's not come out of it looking too good.

Frustration is the word I'd use. There's no doubting Horan's strengths as a manager, great at developing young players, great at instilling confidence in a group, great at getting buy-in from the players.

But when it comes to learning from mistakes....

The scorelines Mayo have conceded in the 4 finals that he's been in charge look like this:

2021: 2-14
2020: 2-14
2013: 2-12
2012: 2-11

Dublin conceded too many goals in the 2014 semi final loss to Donegal. They sure as f**k wern't going to make that mistake again and from that day on they made sure they always had an extra defender back blocking that central channel.

Unless Horan fundamentally changes his tactical approach and implements a proper system that prevents goals then we are not going to get over the line. Unfortunately I just can't see Horan changing at this point.

He's given us some unbelievable days over the last decade but at this stage I have no interest in getting to another final unless we are going to win the f**cking thing.