Religion.

Started by cash4gold, March 03, 2010, 03:07:15 PM

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cash4gold

Quote from: Pangurban on March 03, 2010, 07:59:07 PM
CashFor Gold, when you reach a proper understanding of what constitutes a Church, then you will be qualified to express an opinion, until then you would be better advised to display a little humility and not be making a holy show of your ignorance

What in your opinion constitutes a "Church"; someone else deciding how YOU can worship a God no one for certain knows exists?

Zapatista

#31
Quote from: cash4gold on March 03, 2010, 10:14:24 PM

What wars do you know - Iraq, WW1, WW11?  :o

Great debate.

How about you pick a war and explain how it was about religon and I'll try to counter it? Pick a few if you want.

Maiden1

You don't need religion to know the difference between right and wrong, just ask a five year old.  If there is a God and there is such a thing as heaven I can't see how he/she would care how many Hail Marys you said during your life or how many times you went to mass or whether you went off sugar in your tea for lent.

Religion has been hijacked so many times as an excuse for conflict.  Cromwell's wars where as much about getting hold of the vast lands that the monasteries owned as it was about religious conviction.  The Salem which trials about the transfer of land and power as any hysteria over some women acting a bit strange.  The same thing is happening now with the war on terror/good versus evil it's just an excuse for some people to get rich.  Not really much to do with religion.
There are no proofs, only opinions.


cash4gold

Quote from: Maiden1 on March 03, 2010, 11:27:41 PM
You don't need religion to know the difference between right and wrong, just ask a five year old.  If there is a God and there is such a thing as heaven I can't see how he/she would care how many Hail Marys you said during your life or how many times you went to mass or whether you went off sugar in your tea for lent.

Religion has been hijacked so many times as an excuse for conflict.  Cromwell's wars where as much about getting hold of the vast lands that the monasteries owned as it was about religious conviction.  The Salem which trials about the transfer of land and power as any hysteria over some women acting a bit strange.  The same thing is happening now with the war on terror/good versus evil it's just an excuse for some people to get rich.  Not really much to do with religion.

Good post but please stick to last 100 years for certain posters!!!!

Zapatista

You brought up the last 100 years not me.

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

The Iceman

Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Zapatista

Quote from: The Iceman on March 04, 2010, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......

I don't know were you include me in that but just to point out - I believe religon is a good thing.

ardmhachaabu

Quote from: The Iceman on March 04, 2010, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......
Double standards abound on here don't you know
Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something

Franko

Quote from: ardmhachaabu on March 04, 2010, 05:23:47 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 04, 2010, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......
Double standards abound on here don't you know

They certainly do.  ::)

Zapatista

#40
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on March 04, 2010, 05:23:47 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 04, 2010, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......
Double standards abound on here don't you know

Again, is my (out of context) quote being used as an example here ???

mylestheslasher

Quote from: The Iceman on March 04, 2010, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......

Any chance you could stop playing the victim. The thread posed a question about why people feel the need to worship within an institution as opposed to worship god directly. It is a fair question and I don't see how exactly is that attacking you? Are we not entitled to discuss this, after all the day of the priests castigating people for speaking out of turn is long gone thankfully. Are you so afraid to answer the question posed that you resort to playing the victim?

I personally don't understand your need to worship within a church, especially now that the truth of their dire acts is known. But at  the end of the day I have many family and friends that are just like you and I'm not going to start discriminating against them (which ironically is the complete opposite of what people in the churches did to people like me back in the good old days).

The Iceman

Quote from: Zapatista on March 04, 2010, 05:57:19 PM

Again, is my (out of context) quote being used as an example here ???

No
the general tone of this thread and several others is more what prompted me to make the comment - sorry for quoting you originally.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight

Fiodoir Ard Mhacha

I don't go in for all the Sunday 'see and be seen' business. But I like to go to the chapel when it's quiet, or for a weekday Mass when there's some sense of a small community. The institution puts me off, but the silence, and the spirituality can be a great comforter through times of sadness or depression.
"Something wrong with your eyes?....
Yes, they're sensitive to questions!"

The Iceman

Quote from: mylestheslasher on March 04, 2010, 07:16:58 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on March 04, 2010, 04:08:39 PM
Quote from: Zapatista on March 03, 2010, 11:31:46 PM

I agree with maiden. Religon is abused and used as a weapon and always has been.

So has Technology - do we abandon that too.
Just because some people choose to abuse it doesn't mean its wrong in concept.

I don't understand why so many people are intent on attacking those of us that have a faith in God and express that through a Church.  Where is the let bygones be bygones attitude that is granted towards everyone else?

Kind of a double standard from all those who are first to defend minority groups and anyone oppressed......

Any chance you could stop playing the victim. The thread posed a question about why people feel the need to worship within an institution as opposed to worship god directly. It is a fair question and I don't see how exactly is that attacking you? Are we not entitled to discuss this, after all the day of the priests castigating people for speaking out of turn is long gone thankfully. Are you so afraid to answer the question posed that you resort to playing the victim?

I personally don't understand your need to worship within a church, especially now that the truth of their dire acts is known. But at  the end of the day I have many family and friends that are just like you and I'm not going to start discriminating against them (which ironically is the complete opposite of what people in the churches did to people like me back in the good old days).

How can you rubbish my opinion and then play the victim card yourself?
You don't make sense.  From other threads you make your opinions very known and you claim that other people's opinions count but you do everything to convince and argue otherwise.  If you only wanted opinions you wouldn't have a retort to them.  If you'd like to debate on it then man up and say so.

You personally don't need to understand my need to worship within a Church - that's the thing.  You need to personally understand your own relationship with Jesus and based on His instructions that were passed on to us through the Bible and the Traditions of the Church hope you are doing what He recommended to do. 
Maybe Heaven isn't your goal - but it is mine.  If there is a handbook and best practice guide to get there then I'll use it rather than putting things together myself and hoping I didn't forget to use 4 of the screws. 

What harm am I doing in going to Mass? What harm am i doing in saying a few prayers? What harm am I doing in believing that Jesus died for my sins and yours and that eternal life in Heaven is only through Jesus? 

I laugh often at non-believers who feel the need to challenge Christians beliefs.  You're really only trying to convince yourself you're right because deep down that little question is niggling at your heart - what if you got it wrong?

If I have it wrong - then no harm done.
If you got it wrong - hope you packed the ice.
I will always keep myself mentally alert, physically strong and morally straight