Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[glens abu]

What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.

Eh? Water provision most definitely falls under utilities.

Puckon kept you right there

[muppet]

What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.

We get 30,000 litres a year free per household and then 21,000 litres free per child in addition.

That is 82 litres free per day per house with a lot more if you have kids. This is hardly oppressive. My house, with two kids, will have 197 litres per day free.

Even the mostest, mostest vulnerable in society should manage with that if they have to.

[Maguire01]

What about other utilities then? Electricity?

You said it: 'utility'. We don't perish necessarily, deprived of a utility such as electricity.

Water is more than a utility, it's an absolute necessity.

Eh? Water provision most definitely falls under utilities.

Puckon kept you right there

The fact that I made reference to OTHER utilities in my initial post should have made it clear that I regarded water as such. I'm not always available to make an immediate reply.

[Rossfan]

[Ah, but this is a supplementary tax with no commensurate reduction in what you currently pay for everyone's water. Therefore you'll be paying twice,

Many are already paying twice.
People on Group Water schemes have been paying for our water all the time AND we pay the same tax as an equivalently paid town dweller getting a public water supply.
Also we pay taxes towards subsidised public transport even though we have no such luxury passing our doors.
So if subsidised people now have to pay for their use of water all i can say -- ABOUT FCUKIN TIME>

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

We get 30,000 litres a year free per household and then 21,000 litres free per child in addition.

That is 82 litres free per day per house with a lot more if you have kids. This is hardly oppressive. My house, with two kids, will have 197 litres per day free.

Even the mostest, mostest vulnerable in society should manage with that if they have to.

It's not about oppressiveness, necessarily, more about exploitation -- and they haven't even begun yet I'd say, with this very much as the thin end of the wedge (I don't trust the free market idelogues of the IMF/ECB/EU, etc., whose opaque workings do anything but fill with confidence, witness the refusal to divulge the correspondence concerning the unsecured bondholders and Irish banks)

QED

Many are already paying twice.
People on Group Water schemes have been paying for our water all the time AND we pay the same tax as an equivalently paid town dweller getting a public water supply.
Also we pay taxes towards subsidised public transport even though we have no such luxury passing our doors.
So if subsidised people now have to pay for their use of water all i can say -- ABOUT FCUKIN TIME>

There will always be a minority, but this is about the vast majority, and give it time, public transport will be packaged up and hived off to the private sector too! 

[johnneycool]

If you sink a well, do you still pay these water charges?

[Rossfan]

If you sink a well, do you still pay these water charges?

No only if you have a public supply - or a public sewer.

[Maguire01]

A bit of a disaster from Maskey on Nolan in relation to his welfare figures:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/10/13/nolan-reveals-a-long-standing-1-billion-error-in-sinn-feins-ni-budget-calculations/

And a black hole in SF's water charges calculation in the south:
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/noonan-identifies-1bn-blackhole-in-sinn-feins-water-charge-claims-30653098.html
Pearse Doherty: "All of the other investment in Irish Water is already being spent by the state but it is kept of the balance sheet through accounting trickery." Maybe, but it's understanding the accounting treatment and its impact that critical surely? His response implies he doesn't understand it.

Still lacking any credibility when it comes to economics.

[Applesisapples]

A bit of a disaster from Maskey on Nolan in relation to his welfare figures:
http://sluggerotoole.com/2014/10/13/nolan-reveals-a-long-standing-1-billion-error-in-sinn-feins-ni-budget-calculations/

And a black hole in SF's water charges calculation in the south:
http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/noonan-identifies-1bn-blackhole-in-sinn-feins-water-charge-claims-30653098.html
Pearse Doherty: "All of the other investment in Irish Water is already being spent by the state but it is kept of the balance sheet through accounting trickery." Maybe, but it's understanding the accounting treatment and its impact that critical surely? His response implies he doesn't understand it.

Still lacking any credibility when it comes to economics.

That's an understatement, they need to recruit someone with a GCSE/Intercert in economics and fast. Too many activists at the top and not enough with sound intellectual credentials. Street cred is not enough any more.

[Eamonnca1]

Is it just me or was Mary-Lou being a bit self-pitying the other day? Surely she should have known the rules of the house FFS. People get interrupted all the time by the speaker if they're not following the rules. The whole thing strikes me as a gale in a pail.

[muppet]

We get 30,000 litres a year free per household and then 21,000 litres free per child in addition.

That is 82 litres free per day per house with a lot more if you have kids. This is hardly oppressive. My house, with two kids, will have 197 litres per day free.

Even the mostest, mostest vulnerable in society should manage with that if they have to.

It's not about oppressiveness, necessarily, more about exploitation -- and they haven't even begun yet I'd say, with this very much as the thin end of the wedge (I don't trust the free market idelogues of the IMF/ECB/EU, etc., whose opaque workings do anything but fill with confidence, witness the refusal to divulge the correspondence concerning the unsecured bondholders and Irish banks)

QED

So your opposition to Waters charges has nothing to do with Water Charges, but is about the anticpation of the privatisation of Irish Water and other public companies?

I think Irish Water, the public version, is already in need of reform. And you mentioned public transport! That is possibly the worst possible example of state ownership.

I don't care either way regarding ownership as long as it is run properly.

[LeoMc]

If you sink a well, do you still pay these water charges?

We have an old well on our land which fed a now abandoned building. Does anyone know of a Company who could test the water to see if it is worthwhile investing in a new water pack?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

So your opposition to Waters charges has nothing to do with Water Charges, but is about the anticpation of the privatisation of Irish Water and other public companies?

Irish Water is an abomination, but glad you have such faith in it, bless. Any company, never mind a monopolistic quango, with the individuals it has, and where they have them (at the very top); and who does not pay bonuses, rather it implements a "performance related award scheme", deserves all the opprobrium that can be shovelled from a height upon it.

I think Irish Water, the public version, is already in need of reform. And you mentioned public transport! That is possibly the worst possible example of state ownership.

Yes, I agree, and the pipes need fixing, sorely, but it's all in the method. My reference to public transport was in response to a reference to same.

I don't care either way regarding ownership as long as it is run properly.

You're all right Jack, and I'm all right too, but there will be far too many folk that won't be all right, and who will be really pushed to the pin of their financial collars and more with this introduction -- why did the 'government' introduce the €100 (maximum) relief if the gratis amounts of water are so generous? And do you really think that if the revenue from the water charges doesn't turn a profit for this quango they won't reduce the 'free' water, and sharpish?

[orangeman]

How much are Irish Water shares ?.

[muppet]

So your opposition to Waters charges has nothing to do with Water Charges, but is about the anticpation of the privatisation of Irish Water and other public companies?

Irish Water is an abomination, but glad you have such faith in it, bless. Any company, never mind a monopolistic quango, with the individuals it has, and where they have them (at the very top); and who does not pay bonuses, rather it implements a "performance related award scheme", deserves all the opprobrium that can be shovelled from a height upon it.

I think Irish Water, the public version, is already in need of reform. And you mentioned public transport! That is possibly the worst possible example of state ownership.

Yes, I agree, and the pipes need fixing, sorely, but it's all in the method. My reference to public transport was in response to a reference to same.

I don't care either way regarding ownership as long as it is run properly.

You're all right Jack, and I'm all right too, but there will be far too many folk that won't be all right, and who will be really pushed to the pin of their financial collars and more with this introduction -- why did the 'government' introduce the €100 (maximum) relief if the gratis amounts of water are so generous? And do you really think that if the revenue from the water charges doesn't turn a profit for this quango they won't reduce the 'free' water, and sharpish?

This is like chasing a ping pong ball.

Is it merely that you are against creating a utility for water full stop?

As for those 'pushed to the pin of their collar'. There are numerous categories of those. Anyone who lost their jobs, or young people looking for their first jobs should be looked after.

Those who have never worked and who are nowadays of parents who never worked, I would feel differently about.