Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

Patronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.

But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.

Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.

No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.

That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.

Most people in the world see it as a single identity-Ireland!

I'd not be surprised to see 'Belfast-uk' as isn't this the current  assignation!
But my example is just to show what most of the world thinks!

I hate seeing addresses on facebook as Belfast, UK or Larne, UK etc. I would rather if they said Ireland, Northern Ireland is a more palatable middle ground.

[lynchbhoy]

Patronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.

But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.

Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.

No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.

That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wasn't arguing popular perception. I was talking about the constitutional and political reality.

And for every band listing 'Belfast, Ireland', I can show you another listing 'Belfast, UK'.

Most people in the world see it as a single identity-Ireland!

I'd not be surprised to see 'Belfast-uk' as isn't this the current  assignation!
But my example is just to show what most of the world thinks!

I hate seeing addresses on facebook as Belfast, UK or Larne, UK etc. I would rather if they said Ireland, Northern Ireland is a more palatable middle ground.

It's their right so no one can argue with that. You or I may not like it but its their right!

The use of northern Ireland as a middle ground has incorrectly given rise to it being an actual entity!


I think the other issue here is simply the use of the word 'state' .
I believe everyone knows the present jurisdiction it falls under, but the word state does not solely apply to this definition. That's why I've chosen to use the word 'entity' but the same meaning can be applied to he use of the word 'state'.

Now!thats all been clarified,Tell us how much you love Dublin!!

[theticklemister]

Patronising? Your post clearly implied you didn't know the difference between a nation and a state - I was posting about the state and you replied with reference to the nation.

I posted in reply to Fear ón Srath Bán, who made a specific and useful point. I didn't say anything, one way or the other, that was related to something you might have said a dozen posts earlier.

But he made an incorrect point. And you said he was 'spot on'. The conversation was about the state, not the nation. The state was never defined as 32 counties - either before or after amendments to Articles 2 and 3 - the nation was.

Prior to 1921 wasn't Ireland a 32 county state?
Albeit under English jurisdiction.

No. The state was the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. The 32 counties didn't have sovereignty. In the same way as Scotland isn't a state now.

That's not my point - what you are describing as a 'state'.
they were a 32 county entity.
Home rule and various other reunification efforts were always about the 32 county entity.
At some points ( Parnell) this was close to happening.

Whether its a fully established self determining 32 county state/entity or not ( currently not) the world sees it as such - Ireland!

Bought black sabbath tickets from the english branch of ticketmaster and they were advertising the gig
Black sabbath , Belfast, Ireland.
That's how the world sees it, whether politically correct ( or in place) or not!

I wouldnt say that Lynchboy........

sure in my hometown everyone calls it Derry-Londonderry. Apparently its the new 'thing'. May I add that everyone calls it the UK city of culture also.

Everyone?
Really?
Think we all know this phrase is in vogue right now to generate 'inclusiveness' - and not have the unionist/loyalists rioting and trying to ruin the event!

Derry city council
All the GAA clubs in the city
Sinn Fein
SDLP
Community groups
Comhaltas Derry City branch, (dues to the county branches who opposed the move)


Derry county board also

[lynchbhoy]

So in polite conversation between members of these organisations, the phrase ' its going to be wet and cold tonight in Derry-londonDerry'?
Etc

I am surprised. Must be a city thing as  a few miles out the road west or east it's referred to as Derry.
In Cavan they refer to the fleadh in Derry.
In Dublin , Cork, Glasgow or Luton they talk about Derry.
Maybe I've been 'lucky' with the people I've met and talked to!

Or are you using that rapier like 'wit' again?

[theticklemister]

So in polite conversation between members of these organisations, the phrase ' its going to be wet and cold tonight in Derry-londonDerry'?
Etc

I am surprised. Must be a city thing as  a few miles out the road west or east it's referred to as Derry.
In Cavan they refer to the fleadh in Derry.
In Dublin , Cork, Glasgow or Luton they talk about Derry.
Maybe I've been 'lucky' with the people I've met and talked to!

Or are you using that rapier like 'wit' again?

No need for the inverted comments my friend, ye know ye love my jokes.

Ah sure they say Derry, sure even our old friends in the Waterside say that! Im saying on all the banners, outside pubs, in brocheres etc. On the local radio this is the new word of pleasure.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...

[lawnseed]

The likes of the 'sniper' badge being on sale at an Ard Fheis is very poor form for a party that keeps on talking about reconciliation. It gives it opponents an open goal. And it's not just the badge - the party's website has plenty of IRA memorabilia - an IRA Mug (New Design) - looks like they're still making new products to glorify the troubles. Hardly the image of a party supposedly committed to democracy and reconciliation.

In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind.

I know a place where you boys would fit right in with that sort of heavyweight politic! Somewhere where like yourselves, the other members of this group are (if they were being honest) probably not regular visitors to the SF online shop that they are so offended by either. Give it a go.

Offended? Not in the slightest. But those people who SF say they want to reconcile with - well they might be.
Feel free to play the man though. I appreciate it's easier.

Can't be easier than having a cry about the stock of a shop you don't tend to ever even visit though!

Why do you have to visit the shop in person to form an opinion on 'Sniper at work' badges being sold by a political party that claims to be pursuing it's objectives through only peaceful means?

Claims to be?

Well if Lawnseed's aggression towards the Republic to go by, they are nothing but hollow claims.

hold on a minute "aggression toward the republic"? i think you mistake aggression for fraustration. i'm watching the life being drained out of a bright brilliant young politician live on my tv by the poison that is 26 county politics. a young man with a vision for the future of this island, where we care about its citizens the haves and the have nots. pearse doherty. i watch the 'leader' of this 'state' slim and slither like a slug around brussels stripping his teeth and lurking around the corridors waiting for orders from european bankers as to how he will screw his countrymen. i watch tds in squad cars out on 250euro bail. and then i listen to top rte broadcasters advise bankrupt people to slip up to the north of ireland and stay on benefits for a year then come back and everything will be ok. the problem is less than half a mile away and its a gimp from mayo and his traitor liar pension chasing buddy guttless gilmore. i could go on but i detest long posts

[Rossfan]

Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...

I think you'll find it was the Irish people who voted for the GFA and the people of the 26 cos voted for the changes to the Bunreacht 
If you think we're all stupid morons for doing that... fair enough 

[Applesisapples]

On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?

because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.

There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.

There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

mmmm seems the facts piss Apples off.

Fact Ireland is the Island..Republic Of Ireland is your state. Don't know why I even engaging Mayo as you are partionist and would recognize nordies as Irish any how.

[LCohen]

Surely everyone who believes is in
a) The Good Friday Agreement
b) The constitution of the Republic of Ireland
c) Democracy
d) The rule of law as accepted in international law

must accept that partition must continue unless and until circumstances change.

On that basis all reasonable people are partitionist and "partitionist" is not a term of abuse.

[armaghniac]

On that basis all reasonable people are partitionist and "partitionist" is not a term of abuse.

There is a difference between tolerating something and actively promoting it.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Pre-1999, the Irish Constitution encompassed all 32 counties as 'Ireland' ('national territory').

Post-1999, the 6 counties magically (tragically) disappear (this piece of moronic stupidity from the same geniuses that have delivered the 26 counties into German dominated servitude).

Go figure...

I think you'll find it was the Irish people who voted for the GFA and the people of the 26 cos voted for the changes to the Bunreacht 
If you think we're all stupid morons for doing that... fair enough 

Let me help you figure: it was not the plain voting people of Ireland who reframed the Búnreacht, rather it was the same clueless numpties and their cronies, the same crew that has propelled the 26 into perpetual fiscal and monetary bondage.   

[mayogodhelpus@gmail.com]

On what kind of special occasion would you wear a sniper badge?

And you really wouldn't take exception to a soldier parading their medal for Bloody Sunday? Why not?

because i've moved on. i consider the soldier and the excombatant both to be victoms. those soldiers were primed by their comanding officers before they ever got out of their barracks.

Transplanting your bigotry from hating Unionist and the United Kingdom to the residents of and state of Ireland.

There is no state of Ireland it pisses me off when people from the republic make comments such as this which relegates the north to non Irish status.
In relation to the Sniper at work thing, this really is juvenile SF should be leaving al that crap behind. It's funny if you are 15.

There most definitely is. The official name of the 26 county state is Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann.

mmmm seems the facts piss Apples off.

Fact Ireland is the Island..Republic Of Ireland is your state. Don't know why I even engaging Mayo as you are partionist and would recognize nordies as Irish any how.

Your just having a sulk now, I recognised people from the North as being Irish. The Republic of Ireland is the descriptive name of Ireland (the state). I'm sorry you don't like it, but those are the facts. If you paid attention you would notice the times when the lads from Mayo, Roscommon, Dublin, Monaghan, Meath, Waterford etc. have a go at the North or the lads from the North is after a tirade of abuse from our 6 county board members. Once it is started by you lads, of course those of us from the independent state will not take your shit. Certain people form Kerry or Laois may be known to start without provocation I grant you.

[Rossfan]

Let me help you figure: it was not the plain voting people of Ireland who reframed the Búnreacht, .   

Any reframing of An Bunreacht HAS TO BE approved by the plain ( and not so plain)  voting people of the 26 Cos.
The numpties can do all the reframing they wish - but unless passed in an oul referendum it doesnt happen.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Let me help you figure: it was not the plain voting people of Ireland who reframed the Búnreacht, .   

Any reframing of An Bunreacht HAS TO BE approved by the plain ( and not so plain)  voting people of the 26 Cos.
The numpties can do all the reframing they wish - but unless passed in an oul referendum it doesnt happen.

Stop twisting my words, and the truth.