Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[Armagh18]

If we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?

Same with Daisy Hill. Can Craigavon take on all of Newry/South Down/South Armagh?

The idea would be hospitals focus on emergency and then elective care at specialist centres.
So my understanding is something like Ortho at Dundonald. Cardio at Enniskillen, Cancer Craigavon and so on.
For example - decisions on what and where hasn't been taken

I don't like the idea of someone from Enniskillen having to travel to Craigavon for chemo for example.

[Armagh18]

In fairness I pity anyone that has to travel to Craigavon in general hospital related or not!

[marty34]

The thing is I'd travel to Belfast, Craigavon or Newry for example if it was a first class service.  People going private have no issues travelling here and there because they know they're getting a good service.

The 6 counties is a relatively small area and I wouldn't expect a hospital to be 5 miles from me. People need a bit of perspective on this. Health is a huge issue but to expect to have 20 hospitals in the north, for our population is crazy.

[RedHand88]

If we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?

Same with Daisy Hill. Can Craigavon take on all of Newry/South Down/South Armagh?

The idea would be hospitals focus on emergency and then elective care at specialist centres.
So my understanding is something like Ortho at Dundonald. Cardio at Enniskillen, Cancer Craigavon and so on.
For example - decisions on what and where hasn't been taken

I don't like the idea of someone from Enniskillen having to travel to Craigavon for chemo for example.

Someone who lives in Yorkshire or the Highlands would travel that sort of distance

[Armagh18]

I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

[Milltown Row2]

If we were "optimal" how many hospitals would we have and where would they be? How many would there be in Belfast? Where would the southern trust hospitals be? You'd need one in Derry. Is four in Belfast too many? I assume so?

How can there be too many when you have to wait 15 hours to be seen?!

The hospitals are being bogged down with minor injuries at A&E that should be funneled out to a minor injuries type A&E center

Mother in law has serious health issues after cancer treatment, bowel removed and other heart related issues, he's dementated with going to A&E due to her liver function dropping, he was up the other day and some lad came in with a cut finger!

To be fair there is no where he could go for that to be assessed so he's in there with the one struggling to breathe of other emergencies. But that adds on the time for being seen to everyone. Takes medical services away from the rest and a cubicle being used.

Use these out hospitals for such things, if the assessment requires them to be seen by specialists then arrange that at triage, people are dying in in corridor's, ambulances are being used as waiting areas and not out on the road.

There must be a shortage of staff and money to run the place as the buildings have plenty of room, just no one to look after them.

Either way however its being run now, isn't working and I can't see it getting better in my life time

[thebigfella]

I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

[RedHand88]

Larne used to have TWO hospitals. There was a old caller on Talkback one day giving off that he has to drive to Antrim (20 mile) now.

[armaghniac]

I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

[thebigfella]

I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

It would cost less to provide a car to collect and drop off every patient than build/operate a hospital just because public transport is non existent.

Yes it does need joined up thinking and proper logistics planning but now you're into the realms of building out "some unsustainable public transport routes" just in case people may need to access a service. By your logic they still need to be with 30-45mins door to door, which is just not realistic on public transport.

Also trying to predict suitable appointment times based upon their location, transport requirements and service they are availing would be a logistical nightmare. It's unlikely you could easily build interconnected systems to do it due to data privacy/security concerns.

The big problem I see is trying to solve logistics problem equally for everyone at the expense of the health service quality. The person who has a bus route outside their front door which drops off at the hospital 10 mins away is different than the person with no public transport routes (or private transport option) living 1 hour away. Yet if you offer a driver service for the person that requires it, the person who is 10 mins away will expect the same regardless of their circumstances. Blah blah, I pay national insurance ect.... You can't win.

[trailer]

I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

It would cost less to provide a car to collect and drop off every patient than build/operate a hospital just because public transport is non existent.

Yes it does need joined up thinking and proper logistics planning but now you're into the realms of building out "some unsustainable public transport routes" just in case people may need to access a service. By your logic they still need to be with 30-45mins door to door, which is just not realistic on public transport.

Also trying to predict suitable appointment times based upon their location, transport requirements and service they are availing would be a logistical nightmare. It's unlikely you could easily build interconnected systems to do it due to data privacy/security concerns.

The big problem I see is trying to solve logistics problem equally for everyone at the expense of the health service quality. The person who has a bus route outside their front door which drops off at the hospital 10 mins away is different than the person with no public transport routes (or private transport option) living 1 hour away. Yet if you offer a driver service for the person that requires it, the person who is 10 mins away will expect the same regardless of their circumstances. Blah blah, I pay national insurance ect.... You can't win.

Reality is no one is going on public transport to get chemo or a heart bypass.
If you were sick enough you wouldn't complain how far you had to go for a top class service. Thinking that the best surgeons in the UK or Ireland want to live in Enniskillen (or Craigavon heaven forbid) to provide you a top class service then you are deluded.

[armaghniac]

I think 30-45 minutes is reasonable to have to travel tbh.

That's nonsense, you've just pulled an arbitrary number out of your ass.

Population density is not equal across the north, so you can't guarantee everyone is 45 mins away from a service. By making that a requirement you end up with services that are under/over utilised per catchment area. Marty is right, where health is concerned (rational) people are more than willing to accept a bit of travel for a higher class of treatment.

This is why politician in the north will never do anything radical because of these sort of unrealistic expectations from voters. They'll alway role in behind populist nonsense.

Yes, but they need to ensure that there is public transport to reach the location and that patients are not given appointments at 08:30 that they cannot reach. This type of joined up thinking does not exist.

It would cost less to provide a car to collect and drop off every patient than build/operate a hospital just because public transport is non existent.

Yes it does need joined up thinking and proper logistics planning but now you're into the realms of building out "some unsustainable public transport routes" just in case people may need to access a service. By your logic they still need to be with 30-45mins door to door, which is just not realistic on public transport.

Also trying to predict suitable appointment times based upon their location, transport requirements and service they are availing would be a logistical nightmare. It's unlikely you could easily build interconnected systems to do it due to data privacy/security concerns.

The big problem I see is trying to solve logistics problem equally for everyone at the expense of the health service quality. The person who has a bus route outside their front door which drops off at the hospital 10 mins away is different than the person with no public transport routes (or private transport option) living 1 hour away. Yet if you offer a driver service for the person that requires it, the person who is 10 mins away will expect the same regardless of their circumstances. Blah blah, I pay national insurance ect.... You can't win.

I didn't make any statement about 40 mins etc, I merely said that you have to cater for all people in a feasible way, if that means providing them with taxis then that is an intrinsic cost and not an extra that you can cut off when it suits. At present these are seen as independent things.

As for appointment times, there is no reason why people living near the hospital and those far away could not be given different appointments, there is no data privacy involved, the hospital has your medical records and your address. That this is not done is laziness, not GDPR.

[StephenC]

Reality is no one is going on public transport to get chemo or a heart bypass.
If you were sick enough you wouldn't complain how far you had to go for a top class service. Thinking that the best surgeons in the UK or Ireland want to live in Enniskillen (or Craigavon heaven forbid) to provide you a top class service then you are deluded.

How do you think that people from Donegal get to Galway for Chemo? Someone drives them, they use public transport or they take the cancer bus.
The 'if you were sick enough ...' line is pretty crass.

[Tony Baloney]

Surely it's relatively simple for one of their many expensive computer systems to lookup the address, distance from hospital and then perform at least some rough allocation of appointments. Although that would probably take £3 billion and 15 years to configure.

[Sportacus]

Michelle on the Late Late.  When Adams and McGuinness picked her as the heir, they saw the potential. Very impressive and self assured tonight.