another brainwave by the greens

[the Deel Rover]

Tuesday August 24 2010

THOUSANDS of motorists will be hit with a €900 road tax hike if they use their work vehicles for family or social journeys.

Environment Minister John Gormley has ordered local authorities to force drivers of commercial 4X4s and small vans to legally declare that they will not use them for any social, domestic or pleasure purposes.

The move will come as another blow to small businesses already reeling from a spate of stealth taxes imposed by the cash-strapped Government.

And it will impose a crippling penalty on those drivers who have lost their jobs or businesses but rely on their old work vehicles for family or social reasons. The changes were last night branded as "silly and unenforcable" by the Automobile Association (AA).

Business groups described the move as another attack on small firms.

Under the changes, owners of all commercial 4X4s will have to sign a new Goods Only Declaration in a garda station. They will have to state the vehicle will not be used "at any time for social, domestic or pleasure purposes".

If they sign the declaration and subsequently get caught by gardai using the vehicle for shopping, going to Mass or dropping children off at school -- or any other private run -- they will face fines and possibly prison.

Alternatively, they will have to pay an average of €1,204 instead of the reduced rate of €288 for commercial motor tax.

In the directive -- issued to local authorities on August 10 last -- motor tax officials are told to insist that all owners of commercial vehicles sign the revised RF111A declaration.

It also states it had come to officials' attention that an increasing number of vehicles had been switched from private to commercial for motor tax.

The councils are told to look for the declaration to be completed and for a more thorough assessment of existing declarations. This requires the owners to provide a tax clearance cert, their VAT registration details, commercial insurance certificate or other business registration detail.

A spokesman for Mr Gormley last night said the directive was issued to local authorities in a bid to close a loophole whereby owners of commercial 4X4s used largely for personal use were paying motor tax at the commercial rate instead of the private rate.

"There has been an increase in people trying to avoid paying motor tax by claiming that the vehicle is used solely for commercial use. People are trying to exploit this tax loophole," the spokesman added.

However, Fine Gael TD Denis Naughten said that the move could be the "final straw" for small businesses that were already "on a tightrope at present".


CHAOS

He added: "This overnight change is causing chaos and hardship to people who had not planned for such costs, especially as many families are struggling to meet the enormous costs of going back to school."

Mr Naughten also said he believed it would be impossible to enforce the new directive.

AA spokesman Conor Faughnan agreed and described the directive as "silly".

"This is rather excessive. If a plumber has a van full of tools and uses the same van to go to Mass on Sundays, it is ridiculous to suggest that he pay tax at the higher private rate because he is using it for social purposes," he said.

"If I am stopped in a van with a bag of groceries, am I going to be asked if they are for my home or for my business? This is just pure silly. This will be extremely difficult to enforce and I quite frankly don't see what good it will do."

Irish Small and Medium Enterprise organisation chief executive Mark Fielding said small businesses were already reeling from the recently introduced carbon tax on fuel.

"This is yet another cost on small businesses and that is the bottom line," he said.

- Treacy Hogan

[thejuice]

As someone who works in an industry where protection of the environment and habitats has been one of its cornerstones for over the last 50 years I feel that the Greens and Mr. Gormley have done little since they have come into power for the reputation of environmentalism as a fundamental cause that all people need to be concerned about. Bringing in these taxes will do little for the environment and in fact may even result in more vehicles being on the road and fuel being uneconomically used.

John Gormley's attitude that in order to protect the environment, business and industry must be stifled, is not only outdated but damaging to both industry and the environment. That is that if you believe that this is anything other than a folly of a tax to squeeze a few more cents out of people.

[Shamrock Shore]

Gormley is a clown of the highest order.

This is just some auld shite that he has spun to get publicity to deflect from things like the incinerator mess that could cost the State millions.

Sure - tax the Foxrock tractors to the hilt. Yummy Mummies deseved to pay heavily for driving those galloots between school and the waxing parlour. I am all for it. But if he thinks this brainfart of his could work in the real world then he is madder than I thought.

[Billys Boots]

There are two types of greens, in my experience - Dogma Greens (who believe that business is bad, and should be punished at every opportunity) and Progressive Greens (who want to work towards the creation of an altered economy, rewarding environmentally sustainable enterprise).  Despite my experience to the contrary (having worked in the 'environment industry' since 1990), I'd hoped that the Green Party's promotion to Government might bring out the Progressives in the ranks, the opposite appears to have occurred.

There have been some good developments, mainly in Ryan's department.  There's no getting away from it though; Gormley has been a disaster in Custom House - possibly the worst Minister for Environment in the history of the state (which is some achievement, considering his predecessors were Cullen and Roche).

Oh, and Gormley has always been a Dogma Green.

[Bogball XV]

I actually think this is one of gormley's better ideas.

[muppet]

I actually think this is one of gormley's better ideas.

This has nothing to do with vans and has everything to do with a country on the brink of bankruptcy. For the foreseeable future we will see measures to raise money introduced and enforced everywhere.

This is merely one that makes the headlines. There will be lots more.

Sadly the Government have no choice but to screw us. I posted on the bailout thread that the estimated damage to the Pakistan economy of the floods displacing 20,000,000 people and flooding a large part of a country much larger than ours, is around half of the cost of the bailout out the mess created by Fitzpatrick + Fingleton alone. Think about that!

[Billys Boots]

I actually think this is one of gormley's better ideas.

I don't disagree - in comparison with some of his other ones.

[Lone Shark]

The difficulty with this is that there is a legitimate point underneath all this, which is the fact that it shouldn't be possible to get away with commercial tax on a vehicle that is to all intents and purposes, used as a private vehicle for social/domestic use.

I agree that small business owners aren't in a position to bear any more costs right now, but if I'm self employed and I use my van as a business vehicle and also my sole domestic transport, then the additional money is not a business expense, it's a private expense and one that PAYE workers or even social welfare recipients can't skip because of hard times, and so neither should they be able to.

The other side of the coin is the vehicle which is used for work purposes, but also occasionally for going to pick up a big load of shopping from Tesco, or dropping one of the kids off at school on the way to a job, or to bring the partner into town to pick up the car that was left in there last night. Life has to go on and occasionally circumstances will dictate that work and private life overlap.

Of course I have no idea how one would enforce that distinction. So I'm no help really.

[the Deel Rover]

surely they ( the greens ) realised that the tax take on cars would be reducing over the next few years with the number of lower emmissions lower tax cars increasing in Ireland or did they even think of this

[The Real Laoislad]

This has to be the biggest load of c**k I have ever heard.

How are they going to enforce it anyways?
Sit outside shopping centers, churches,golf clubs and wait for the man in the van to drive out?
What if I am on the way home from work and I pick the woman up on the way home,if I'm stopped am I going have to pay a €900 fine?

I have a car that I already pay huge tax on,so if I want to go down home at the weekend but the women needs the car and I take my van instead am I going to be fined €900 if I'm caught?...

How are they going to prove I'm using it for private use anyway? I can always say I'm after being called out on a breakdown...

Its tough enough trying to maintain a business nowadays without another tax,I already have to DOE(NCT for van) my van every year regardless of the year of the van,yet a car only has to do it after 4 years is it? and then only every 2nd year is it?...

I'm a bit confused also about one thing,If I register my van as a private vehicle and pay the €1000+ tax a year on it does that mean I can't use it for my commercial use?
Whats my other alternative,buy a 2nd car to use just on the occasions that I can't use the car I have because I can't drive my f**king van to Superquinn for the shopping?
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong

[An Gaeilgoir]

This has to be the biggest load of c**k I have ever heard.

How are they going to enforce it anyways?
Sit outside shopping centers, churches,golf clubs and wait for the man in the van to drive out?
What if I am on the way home from work and I pick the woman up on the way home,if I'm stopped am I going have to pay a €900 fine?

I have a car that I already pay huge tax on,so if I want to go down home at the weekend but the women needs the car and I take my van instead am I going to be fined €900 if I'm caught?...

How are they going to prove I'm using it for private use anyway? I can always say I'm after being called out on a breakdown...

Its tough enough trying to maintain a business nowadays without another tax,I already have to DOE(NCT for van) my van every year regardless of the year of the van,yet a car only has to do it after 4 years is it? and then only every 2nd year is it?...

I'm a bit confused also about one thing,If I register my van as a private vehicle and pay the €1000+ tax a year on it does that mean I can't use it for my commercial use?
Whats my other alternative,buy a 2nd car to use just on the occasions that I can't use the car I have because I can't drive my f**king van to Superquinn for the shopping?
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong

A nonsense rule by a nonsence green minister. His theroys are as follows, business in general- bad, turf cutting(fines to be paid)- bad, incinerator in back yard-bad, incinerator in Meath-good, landfill (millions in fines to be paid)- good, cycle routes from Dublin to Galway and other cities- good, rural pursuits in general-bad, having people living in the countryside- bad, cutting hedgerows to make rural roads safer for cyclists and pedestrains- bad, west of the shannon- one large nature reserve for the sandymount classes to visit in July- good. The sooner he is out the better.

[armaghniac]

This rule is not new, it has existed for many years, but Irish style people have been happy to sign that their vehicle was only being used commercially when in fact this was not true.

[no mo do yakamo]

All this shite has been tried before and anyone over the age of 30 knows how to deal with it. Its totally unenforceable, but im looking forward to seeing how they try and fail.
Theres also going to be a whole new can of worms opened when for example, A transit van, taxed privately (if  possible) is due for testing.  The nct centres wont test it, Too big. Doe centre wont test it as not commercial. And if tou but a new transit as a private vehicle youll have pay much more for it cos its  a higher rate of Vrt.
The Green party promoting the black economy.

[mylestheslasher]

Ha ha, the greens promoting one man in a van types to buy a 2nd car. What a bunch of idiots.

[no mo do yakamo]

My advice to anyone making a declaration for commercial tax disc is to state your business as  Builder/ mechanic/ farmer etc  AND child minder.