Leinster Senior Football Championship 2017

Started by Junior Ex Laoistalk, November 18, 2016, 01:47:15 AM

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High Fielder

You can give it to who you like in my opinion. These players should be good enough to get out of Division 4, but that's about it. It's time to focus on specifics like developing good backs, because at the moment there are none. No point saying we have good players if we can't defend, and we really cannot defend. The coaches mentioned above have no CVs to speak of in managerial terms. That doesn't necessarily bother me, but I'm not convinced that any of them could bring the county together - for different reasons. I'd go with Mick Dempsey if possible. He should command respect at least, but no guarantees either I suppose

Pablo Escobar

Is there a viable Laois option? I feel without a strong Portlaoise contingent Laois are severely weakened. Malachy McNulty could be the man if they are going that route. I feel that the likes of Higgins and Clancy havnt done enough at club level to become the main man. Maybe they could come on board as selectors . Other outside managers that pop into my mind are Paul Curran, Oisin McConville, Tony McEntee.

Pablo Escobar

Quote from: High Fielder on July 20, 2017, 10:09:46 AM
You can give it to who you like in my opinion. These players should be good enough to get out of Division 4, but that's about it. It's time to focus on specifics like developing good backs, because at the moment there are none. No point saying we have good players if we can't defend, and we really cannot defend. The coaches mentioned above have no CVs to speak of in managerial terms. That doesn't necessarily bother me, but I'm not convinced that any of them could bring the county together - for different reasons. I'd go with Mick Dempsey if possible. He should command respect at least, but no guarantees either I suppose

I'd say Mick is happy enough with the gig he has. Had he one or two years with Laois back in the 90's?

High Fielder

I agree, and he probably wouldn't want it anyway. Just can't get my heads around the above names. Portlaoise lads sulk if it's not a Portlaoise man. The others feel isolated when it is. This is Laois

Pablo Escobar

Quote from: High Fielder on July 20, 2017, 10:20:42 AM
I agree, and he probably wouldn't want it anyway. Just can't get my heads around the above names. Portlaoise lads sulk if it's not a Portlaoise man. The others feel isolated when it is. This is Laois

Laois' problem encapsulated in one message. We all have to realise that when Portlaoise get behind the county we tend to do well. We need a man who can unite the clubs but with all the crap that has gone on in club level over this and other years, I believe a Laois man will not do this. This is why I would always advocate an outside manager. And not some fella on the circuit (Cribbin, Flanagan, Bealin etc). You get what you pay for. As well as this we need to sort out our Games development officers and get the right people into the jobs. Not just because the county secretary knows you.

Tony

Portlaoise are slightly odd in that they've no real exceptional player like a Kingston or Begley but they have decent players all over the pitch that will do well in the club scene. Dillon, Brody, Healy are county players, Cahir says he might return to the footballers in 2018. Other than that, they've a few nice footballers but I personally don't think they'd make fantastic county players. I don't want to go into names but a few of the Portlaoise lads have played with the county and barring a few like Healy and Brody, they haven't exactly set the county scene alight. Like we said before, what we need most is lads who will give 100% and if you don't want to play, it's better you're honest with yourselves and supporters.

Regarding a manager, what's the point in bringing a Pete M or similar if they've no real interest in Laois to begin with. I thought maybe Creedon would be here for years as he seemed to really want to change the culture in Laois GAA for the better. I think he still does want to do that in fairness to him but his performance has been disappointing. I'd personally love someone to get it that turns into a long term manager from their own county like a Harte or Boylan or Cody - someone from the county who raises standards and who stays around for years. Getting someone like McGrath who will stay for a couple of years and leave is ridiculous in my opinion. Who that man is to take us forward, I don't know, or - do we have anyone to unite the county who has passion for Laois and will raise standards accross the board? Whoever we get, it sounds like another risk as none of the likes of Clancy, Malachy, Conway or Higgins really have a CV that you can write home about. They could turn into an excellent manager but there's no question that it is a risk.

BallyroanAbu

i like Pete McGrath, but I think Laois  need to go a different way down the road of making inhouse appointments.  We have some seriously professional young club managers why not start down a road of appointing our own.  Of course some of them will be disasters but could it be worse than the last two outside managers.  Lillis  was our own but he was not exactly what I have in mind.  Malachy, Clancy, Joe or Chris give them a shot.  It would also encourage young lads to go down the route of management if the big job is the carrot on the end of the stick.  I do think our strategic review is doomed there is far too much stakeholder involvement.  A review needs independence , with 7-8 laois men involved they all have their own agendas. 

portlaoisekid

I haven't posted here in a long time but have kept an eye on some of the comments being posted . Some great comments made by the serious posters and some utter crap from the kids.

IMO I've never seen Laois football in such a bad situation. Its a complete and utter mess. First and foremost we have a very limited panel and the ones that are putting in the commitment are being let down by a number of the panel who are acting like they are club players not inter county. I've seen experienced players drinking with my own eyes when they were blatantly told to be off it. On the drinking issue there's a time for it and god knows they deserve it but the week before championship when they are literally falling around a pub??

Creeden from what I hear is a good guy but the players lost faith in him early on so that's game over for him.

I honestly do not know where we go from here, I've always said that counties like Laois need a manager to come in and make the team greater than the sum of its parts. To do this we need everybody in the set up to be 100% committed, can we say the players did this in 2017? IMO no.I think we know the panel was let down by a few and its the players who burst a gut all year  I feel for.

For 2018 Id like to see a set up in place that's backed 100% by the county board in every possible way with a manager who has the total commitment of every player . Then we have a chance, Gaelic football is not that great outside of the top 4-5 teams and I see no reason why a Laois team cannot make progress even with a limited panel.

I'm not so sure about any of the local candidates being mentioned here taking the job as manager but as part of the set up they would be great.

I'd choose a manager that can galvanise this county and who can get some sort of spark going here again. I don't think we need a tactical genius , just a Mick O'Dwyer figure that can spearhead a mgt team that can eek every once of quality and potential from this county.

For talk sake a  Dara O'Se  type character, a man who would instantly gain respect, yes he has no track record but I genuinely believe it could work with him or someone like him leading the set up. I highly doubt we would get him but why not try for someone like him?

GAA-SMART

The job itself is still very attractive.. Everyone knows Laois have good footballers and have potential. We are D4 next year and would be odds on to get out of it, 4-6 maybe 4-7 so if a new manager can garner abit of enthusiasm and get structures in place, promotion from D4 going into Championship will be a boost.

I wouldnt be for Clancy or Joe ect to get the top job, I would like to see them as selectors to learn the ropes. The usual names of John Evans, Pat Flanagan, Luke Dempsey and Jason Ryan will be thrown in, then we get the daft ones like Pat Gilroy or maybe just maybe Jim Gavin sees the potential in laois and leave the Dubs.

Its hard to know who exactly we need but maybe Pete McGrath is a right man to get down and set up the structures we need in Laois and bring in those younger coaches to get the vibe of the set up, Mc Grath done a fine job with Fermanagh with a pool of players at a similar level to us but we just have a bigger pick.

town1980

after so many years playing and coaching   joe ,malachy and clancy would be in my opinion be quiet up to the job,there young passionate and its a young mans tactical thinking game all three work hard on this aspect from games i have seen,they dont need to be number twos to showcase there talents in my opinion but its all open to debate

Joeythelips

Quote from: GAA-SMART on July 21, 2017, 10:13:30 AM
The job itself is still very attractive.. Everyone knows Laois have good footballers and have potential. We are D4 next year and would be odds on to get out of it, 4-6 maybe 4-7 so if a new manager can garner abit of enthusiasm and get structures in place, promotion from D4 going into Championship will be a boost.

I wouldnt be for Clancy or Joe ect to get the top job, I would like to see them as selectors to learn the ropes. The usual names of John Evans, Pat Flanagan, Luke Dempsey and Jason Ryan will be thrown in, then we get the daft ones like Pat Gilroy or maybe just maybe Jim Gavin sees the potential in laois and leave the Dubs.

Its hard to know who exactly we need but maybe Pete McGrath is a right man to get down and set up the structures we need in Laois and bring in those younger coaches to get the vibe of the set up, Mc Grath done a fine job with Fermanagh with a pool of players at a similar level to us but we just have a bigger pick.

Very attractive??  you would need to elaborate a bit on that one.

As with any walk of life you assess the job you are applying for and when you look at Laois, attractive is not a word I would associate with it.  Here are some facts, the current crop of players have suffered consecutive league relegations to go from division 2 to division 4, and have worked under 3 management set ups in past 3 years.

Maybe we have talent coming through at underage? Well apart from the Leinster minor final hammering to Kildare in 2016 we do not have much to show.

Maybe our best players just don't commit to the county panel for various reasons? A look at our club would show that apart from Cahir Healy this is not the case, we are not in a good place here either, Stradbally our county champions had 2 players on the county panel which says a lot of the standard really.

Looking at the panel realistically we have 7/8 players (and thats with my biased Laois tinted glasses on) that could make it to a high enough standard for Laois to really compete for 2nd spot in Leinster IMO. The rest I am not so sure.

My comments my seem a tad harsh and pessimistic but you are saying the role is a very attractive, I am not sure where you see that. Only real attraction I see is that if you get the whole panel working together the Div 4 trophy is very winnable.



Tony

I think it is an attractive job for a Laois man. Not so much for an outside man. Pete M and Flanagan and all those are more of the same. Don't even get me started on Luke Dempsey, he is not to be mentioned again as a possible canditate.

Why is it attractive for a Laois man? Because we've pretty much hit rock bottom now. The only way is up, unless we lose to Wicklow next year.

I'm all for putting a young Laois man in there, my preference is Malachy McNulty as he's very tactically astute. It's going to take us years to get back to a good level at senior, so why waste more money on an expensive senior setup. Malachy or Conway knows the local club scene inside out. For those men I'm sure it is very attractive - the highest role in the county. I'd have an honest chat with all players - do ye want to give 100%? If so, you're welcome to go for the panel, if not, better off not showing up to waste your time and everyone elses.

Unfortunately for us, I really see the "professional" age of GAA not suiting a county like us. We were competitive when training was primitive and all teams had a similar fitness level. It was more a game of skill, then, and we've nearly always had skillful players, even today. I believe the team of today that we have in 2017 would compete well enough in the 90's and before.

However the likes of Dublin, Donegal, Mayo or Kerry are so far ahead in terms of conditioning and fitness and preparation that it's really becoming men vs boys in a lot of match ups. 20 years ago, an 8 point loss to those teams was massive; now it's respectable as the norn is for them to anihilate a lower team. The gulf in class in the professional age is night and day. Either we try to replicate the professionalism of these teams or we stay down in Div 3 or 4. Different age. In fairness to the likes of Clare, Tipp and Cavan, they were at a worse place than us but now they're miles ahead. If we can replicate their level of prep and subsequent success in the next 5-7 years, we'd be doing relatively well.

I know High Fielder says we don't have good backs to base ourselves on, but I think we'll do better in 2018 if we have something like:

Brody
Cahir Healy, Mark Timmons, Stephen Attride,
Padraig McMahon, Colm Begley, Buggie / Lillis.

Anyway, going on tangents now so I'll leave it there.

steven seagal

QuoteCahir Healy, Mark Timmons, Stephen Attride,
Padraig McMahon, Colm Begley, Buggie / Lillis.

While I agree with you Tony that the backs listed there are potentially very good, I think it would be pointless to put them on the field, in the long run.

Healy, Timmons, McMahon and Begley are all 30+ at this stage, so there is no long term plan in place for them. We would just have to scrap them and start again the year after. I'd imagine McMahon will probably call it a day this summer anyway, and I'd personally like to see Healy stick with the hurlers.

The more I think about it, the less I am in favour of cobbling a team together just to get us out of Division 4. It's not a nice place to be I know, but we have to completely rebuild the team. Timmons, Begley, Quigley, Strong, McMahon, Munnelly, Donoher and Meaney are not our future. I'd keep a handful of them involved for their influence, maybe Munnelly, Begley and Timmons, but I'd let the rest of them go. I don't think there's any point in putting out a team of the older lads as a last hurrah for them to get us out of Division 4, if we have to blood a litany of young lads the year after and get relegated again. I think next year is the time to bring in the younger players, and if it takes us a year or two to get out of Division 4, so be it, this has to be long-term plan anyway. We need to build a team that can play together for the next 3-4 years, in my opinion.

We need to identify lads from 18 to 22 that can be solid players in two to three years time, and work year-round with them from now on. I'd like to see something like this next year, with a few of the promising U-17s from this year on the fringes of the panel, so they have some idea of what an intercounty set up entails, and to keep them interested.

Brody

Kelly, Timmons, Attride
O'Sullivan, Buggie, Begley

JOL, Luttrell

Daly, O'Carroll, Farrell
P Kingston, D Kingston, Moore

I'd have lads like Davy Conway and James Finn from this year still there, and then younger lads like Diarmuid Whelan, Robert Tyrell, Shane Nerney, Trevor Collins, Mick Keogh, Colm Murphy involved, as well as the few minors, and I'm probably missing a few more too.

The bulk of that team should still be playing in three years time. We need to identify someone to replace Timmons, maybe Shane Nerney, and have him work hand in hand with him for the year to learn as much as he can, and then work him into the team from there.

Who manages them is a different matter entirely though. I think Clancy has the type of personality we need, but he hasn't the experience to take it on his own. I'd love to see him involved though, I think he'd work well with the younger lads.

Laoiseabu

Steven seagull that team u have assembled three will not get near out of division 4. None of them young lads are near the required standard they have just been used because we have no one else. James Kelly? Did you see him in the league final? He's not even a club player. Daly is not near the pace required for inter county so overrated  . The reason we are in division 4 is because we are an ageing team and the young lads coming in are no where near good enough to replace them or even better them. Trevor Collins? Seriously were u at the Clare match ? Would he even play well for Graigue in a poor club scene? Ask yourself these questions. The only young lad that came through in the last few years good enough was O Carroll and now he's injured a lot . Sean Moore is a nice player but he will never get away at senior inter county at that size. If all these lads were so good why didn't our u21s beat Offaly then? I'll tell u why cause they are not good enough!! It's a fact of life . We are in limbo. Luttrell ? He's automatically a 'Name' now to be considered just because a disaster of a management set up gave him a run out for the worst Laois team I can remember in the league and O Byrne cup. Just cause you get a run out for a division 4 side dosent mean u are good enough?

steven seagal

QuoteSteven seagull that team u have assembled three will not get near out of division 4.

First things first, it's Steven Seagal, I've been in films, I'm actually very famous. Secondly, did you even read the post, or did you just pick out the names of lads you don't like and decide to tell us all how sh*te you think they are? I said it could take us a year or two to get out of Division 4 with that team. You might not like the lads coming through, but they are the players we have to work with. The only thing we can do is try to make them better, give them time to play together and support them as best we can.

What's the alternative?