Is University worth it?

[armaghniac]

I'd say that those who think there is no need for maths were foremost in voting for Brexit.

[Eamonnca1]

Was at uni in the 80s and luckily did a vocation  degree which has led me to having a good life but times have changed .
Daughter graduation  was at start of summer and the reality struck that uni is now a money making exercise .
60% we're foreign nationals who queens are simply extracting cash from.
A lot to be said for apprenticeships but even that's a mess , why does a kid need English and maths gcse to become a brick layer or joiner .

I couldn't agree more. GCSE Maths and the weight given to it is a sham. Virtually all of it is entirely redundant to the vast majority of people. Much of it is redundant to everyone. Who the hell needs to know highest common factors?
Like a lot of things in education, traditionalist, classist bullshit.

I'll never forget the amount of time we spent in primary school learning mental arithmetic. "You'll need this if you work in a shop" I was told, by teachers who still had memories of a shop being a small room where someone handed you stuff from the shelves behind them and told you how much you owe after calculating it mentally. I almost never use mental arithmetic these days, for anything.

The reading and writing though, I'm glad we spent a lot of time on that. It seems to have aged well, and I get irritated by the lack of intelligible grammar that I see people broadcasting online. There are times when I get text messages from people that I can barely understand because of the lack of complete sentences.

Sure that happened   

When's the last time you calculate time or check your change when paying? You're using the skills and techniques almost every day without realising. It also promotes development of problem solving skills and recall. Such spoofing.

Can't say I've had to calculate times much lately, whatever that means. Checking change when paying? These days I only use cash for buying petrol because the local station offers a discount for it. For everywhere else I tap the card or have automatic payments set up.

The principles of maths are worth understanding. My wife and I frequently go through our finances but we use spreadsheets to assess how we're doing. What I don't do is furiously make calculations in my head like they said I was going to. The computers do the grunt work of crunching the numbers for me.

In my dad's day he would write out delivery dockets and the pen would never stop moving because he was so quick at the calculations. He knew the price of everything, would multiply the price by the quantity on each line, total up the column, calculate the 12.5% discount in one column and the 20% discount in the other columns, subtract the discounts, and total the lot up as quick as lightning. Nowadays I believe delivery men just punch everything into a handheld computer.

I'm not talking about maths, I'm talking about mental arithmetic, the actual crunching of numbers. It has been nowhere near as necessary as our teachers said it was going to be.

[trailer]

Basic Maths and English is a sign of your intelligence. If someone applied for a job with me and their CV was poorly written I'd immediately discard it. We also need basic Maths in our line of work, calculating percentages and costs. Nothing overly taxing but being able to know how to do the sums even if you use a calculator to do it.
Degrees are a mark or level indicator of your ability. That's why people choose to do them even if they don't necessarily use every single module. Some of the shite we were taught in Queen's was frankly ridiculous.
Having said all that I employ people with and without a 3rd level education in the same roles and my best performer is someone who left school after A-Levels.

[tbrick18]

Was at uni in the 80s and luckily did a vocation  degree which has led me to having a good life but times have changed .
Daughter graduation  was at start of summer and the reality struck that uni is now a money making exercise .
60% we're foreign nationals who queens are simply extracting cash from.
A lot to be said for apprenticeships but even that's a mess , why does a kid need English and maths gcse to become a brick layer or joiner .

I couldn't agree more. GCSE Maths and the weight given to it is a sham. Virtually all of it is entirely redundant to the vast majority of people. Much of it is redundant to everyone. Who the hell needs to know highest common factors?
Like a lot of things in education, traditionalist, classist bullshit.

See I would totally disagree with this. In my view Maths is the one thing that is needed across the board by everyone, whether household budgeting, understanding a loan, working out angles for a roof, getting ratios right for a cement mix etc.

We had a former client who could barely read or write but was a sharp as a tack on numbers, engineering plans etc. He set up his own manufacturing business when he left school and sold it for over £20m a few years ago

I have to say, I agree with this too.
GCSE maths is 100% a requirement. Sure even a job in tesco's would want gcse maths/english at a minimum.
Yes there will be topics that you never use again for most people, but understanding percentages, fractions etc is important for day-to-day living as much as for any job.

[ONeill]

I see Maths GCSE isn't part of Queen's general entry requirements. Dunno if that has always been the case.

[LC]

I find that within a couple of years of qualifying whether it be completing an apprenticeship or a degree you whether you got a grade from A - E or first to a 2.2. level of your qualification becomes irrelevant.  More times than enough I have come across people with high grades on paper but it is clear they are severely lacking in skills such as work ethic, ability to absorb what is going on around them, lack of initiative or ability to think outside the box, manage their time, read people et etc.

[armaghniac]

Was at uni in the 80s and luckily did a vocation  degree which has led me to having a good life but times have changed .
Daughter graduation  was at start of summer and the reality struck that uni is now a money making exercise .
60% we're foreign nationals who queens are simply extracting cash from.
A lot to be said for apprenticeships but even that's a mess , why does a kid need English and maths gcse to become a brick layer or joiner .

I couldn't agree more. GCSE Maths and the weight given to it is a sham. Virtually all of it is entirely redundant to the vast majority of people. Much of it is redundant to everyone. Who the hell needs to know highest common factors?
Like a lot of things in education, traditionalist, classist bullshit.

See I would totally disagree with this. In my view Maths is the one thing that is needed across the board by everyone, whether household budgeting, understanding a loan, working out angles for a roof, getting ratios right for a cement mix etc.

We had a former client who could barely read or write but was a sharp as a tack on numbers, engineering plans etc. He set up his own manufacturing business when he left school and sold it for over £20m a few years ago

I have to say, I agree with this too.
GCSE maths is 100% a requirement. Sure even a job in tesco's would want gcse maths/english at a minimum.
Yes there will be topics that you never use again for most people, but understanding percentages, fractions etc is important for day-to-day living as much as for any job.

The question is why is it a requirement though? Take what you say about Tesco as an example. Walk into your local Tesco and put a GCSE Maths paper in front of every employee over 25. How many would pass it? What good is the certificate saying that they used to know it?

As for the bits of maths you listed, that's stuff you learn in primary school. If that is required for the job, just test them on that.

Sure why not let the proles just leave education after primary school and stop wasting any further education on them?

[Aaron Boone]

I enjoyed Uni as it was a break from home life circumstances at the time.

But in terms of setting one up for a job, none of the skills were transferable or what I learned on the job in year 1 anyway. 

Tradesmen apprenticeships are a definite alternative. Though not every plumber/ electrician is a millionaire by any means. They all seem to drive good cars though. 

[Milltown Row2]

There's a painter that does work at my house when we need it, he has a steady flow of customers that he's always working with and he's not hard to pay but great at his job, he has 3 weeks a year that he's off, but plans to retire by the time he's 55. I wish I was retiring in 4 years

[ONeill]

I can't believe you don't do your own painting.

[Milltown Row2]

I can't believe you don't do your own painting.

Who likes painting? I'll fix things fit things, minor electrical stuff, but painting feck that! You need patience for that

[ONeill]

I always say painting is like refereeing. You take your time to make sure it's the right call, under extreme abuse from others.

[Milltown Row2]

Patience? Lucky nobody has dreamed up that you need 8 GCSEs or equivalent, including Music and one of BTEC Sport or GOML French.

I left school with diddly squat at 16, though different times, GCSE's were harder then 

[quit yo jibbajabba]

O-Levels. Youre fooling noone 😉

[johnnycool]

Patience? Lucky nobody has dreamed up that you need 8 GCSEs or equivalent, including Music and one of BTEC Sport or GOML French.

I left school with diddly squat at 16, though different times, GCSE's were harder then 

O-Levels. Youre fooling noone 😉

He's telling the truth this time, we were the first year of it and the teachers hadn't a puff at times about the course work needed....